Converting S&W 500 to single action

[dubber123]

I know it's possible to convert a S&W revolver to D/A only, but can they be converted to single action only? I know Smith made some single action only Mod. 14's. but I'm not sure if they contained any trick parts, or if a regular production model can be converted. My brother has a 500 Smith that is coming unlocked when firing, and nothing, including 3 trips to the factory has helped. One thought is that under recoil, his, (and my) trigger finger is coming off the trigger, and partially pulling the action back, unlocking it. This is Smiths explaination. It does this to both of us so I'm not sure I buy it, but hey... We have fiddled with this gun alot, and had the thought if the D/A mode was disabled, there would be one less excuse for its malfunctions. Does anyone know if this can be done? Thanks.

[Scrounger]

About 40 years ago I bought a used Model 25 S&W (First of several) at the Santa Ans GunRoom. It was single action only. I wanted it to be double action too. I took the side plate off and also off a .38 I had and compared the inner workings figuring out what did what. The only difference was the .38 had one little part (Don't remember the name) the .45 didn't. I knew S&W made Model 25s in double action as well as Model 24s, 22s, 26s, 27s, 28s, and 29s, the inner parts would be interchangeable. So I ordered that part, cost maybe $2, and had myself a single and double action .45. To get to the point, if you take the sideplate off and remove that little connector that joins the hammer to the trigger, you will have a single action only. Of course this all presupposes the new S&W you have operstes the same way the N frames did.

[dubber123]

Thanks, Scrounger, I'll take another look. We've been inside this thing a hundred times, but always trying something else. If this works, we'll know for sure it was operator error, not a mechanical malfunction. I'm still not too fond of any gun that has to be held a certain way to function, but he's pretty well stuck with it now, so we have to make the best of it.

[leftiye]

Dubber, there's the spring loaded flat thang that pivots in the middle, it's on the front of the S&W DA hammers. It's what the trigger bears on when cycling double action. If this along with its pivot pin and spring are removed the double action goes away. As they say, to each his own.

[dubber123]

Thanks leftiye, I know you're not a fan of the big boomers, but this ones my brothers, he's stuck with it, we may as well fix it. It is very accurate, just too big and heavy for me.

[JMax]

Dubber, there's the spring loaded flat thang that pivots in the middle, it's on the front of the S&W DA hammers. It's what the trigger bears on when cycling double action. If this along with its pivot pin and spring are removed the double action goes away. As they say, to each his own.


That flat thang is the DA sear, on older S&W revolvers there was a pivot pin that needs to be driven out, the DA sear and a small coil spring to return the sear to its proper position when the rebound pushes the trigger back into position and the hammer resets.

Newer S&W revolvers have cast parts and the DA sear looks different and has no pivot pin and the sear is easily removed by moving it towards the side plate. It also has a return spring. I haven't had a 500 side plate off so I don't know what it there.

[dubber123]

Everbody is right in this instance, it is the gizmo off the face of the hammer. Once removed, the gun will only fire when cocked single action, however, the trigger will still rotate the cylinder, so in our case, this doesn't help. The theory is that we are essentially " double pumping" the trigger, causing it to unlock under recoil. I was hoping for and easy fix, but I guess it's not to be. Thanks anyways.

[Lloyd Smale]

I was doing that with my 396 with real heavy loads. What i learned to do was get a better grip on the gun. It took a firmer grip and also a differnt set of grips. Another option rather then altering the gun is to load it down a touch. It proably wouldnt take much and you certainly arent going to get it out of a power level that wont kill anything that walks.

[dubber123]

Lloyd I don't get it with this gun, it malfunctions for both my brother and I. I shoot with a pretty firm grip, a lesson my short barreled .475 taught me, and this think will screw up with loads as light as a 460 gr. at 1,200 fps. Yeah, I know thats plenty of power, but for a gun this big and heavy, it shood be able to shoot up to it's full power without a problem. I'm no He-man, but I'm 240# and can squeeze 300# on a bath room scale. How hard do you have to squeeze this thing! I'm glad I didn't spend the money on it.

[twoworms]

dubber123,

There is a movie (It used to be on John Ross home page) on line if you can find it of a guy shooting a 500S&W one handed. His finger moves forward under recoil then back again before the gun stops moving upward. This movie showed how some folks got the 500S&W to double shooting it one handed.

Tim

[dubber123]

dubber123,

There is a movie (It used to be on John Ross home page) on line if you can find it of a guy shooting a 500S&W one handed. His finger moves forward under recoil then back again before the gun stops moving upward. This movie showed how some folks got the 500S&W to double shooting it one handed.

Tim

Thats the theory of whats happening with us. I just can't get over having to grip it that hard to make it work. I don't have a weak grip, and I still can't get it to be 100% trustworthy. Even if a really hard grip fixed it, my shooting would be terrible from all the white-knuckling, and eventually you are going to relax your grip. Like I said, the best thing is, It's not mine! I keep hoping for a mechanical fix to this, but I don't really think there is one.:???:

[danski26]

If you can't disable the double action maybe making it VERY heavy would help. Look and see if you can add heavy springs to the double action while leaving the single action alone. A 30# double action may solve the problem.......just a thought.

[dubber123]

If you can't disable the double action maybe making it VERY heavy would help. Look and see if you can add heavy springs to the double action while leaving the single action alone. A 30# double action may solve the problem.......just a thought.

Well, thats another thought, we have already modified the cylinder locking bolt to take a heavier diameter spring, but a heavier trigger return spring would do as you suggest. Might be worth a try, Thanks.

[44man]

Sounds like the time I built up a Colt .45 for a friend. It shot great with 1/2" 30 yd groups. The trigger was perfect. He wanted to sell it to another of our friends so they came to shoot. No way, no how! Our other friend could do nothing but make the gun go almost full auto. Never less then 2 shots with a trigger pull and sometimes 4. We watched him and could not see what he was doing. There was a lot of laughter as me and my friend shot it one at a time but the other guy could not do it no matter what.
Remember that a death grip on a gun does nothing but make you shake, that is not the problem or solution. I have personally never seen the problem with a S&W but wonder if it is related to fear of recoil causing some involuntary finger movement. How can the cylinder lock drop out without a trigger pull?

[dubber123]

Sounds like the time I built up a Colt .45 for a friend. It shot great with 1/2" 30 yd groups. The trigger was perfect. He wanted to sell it to another of our friends so they came to shoot. No way, no how! Our other friend could do nothing but make the gun go almost full auto. Never less then 2 shots with a trigger pull and sometimes 4. We watched him and could not see what he was doing. There was a lot of laughter as me and my friend shot it one at a time but the other guy could not do it no matter what.
Remember that a death grip on a gun does nothing but make you shake, that is not the problem or solution. I have personally never seen the problem with a S&W but wonder if it is related to fear of recoil causing some involuntary finger movement. How can the cylinder lock drop out without a trigger pull?

44man, supposedly this has happened on film many times with the 500's. The trigger finger comes off the face of the trigger under recoil, and as your grimp re-tightens (still in recoil), you involuntarily partially pull the trigger again. If you pull a Smith just so, part way, the cylinder can "freewheel", and can go whatever direction it wants. "Fear of recoil?", what ails you!, I'm nearly brain dead when it comes to recoil! My 4-3/4" .475 will tuck 5 440 gr. slugs in an inch at 50 yds. at 1,325fps., in a 3 lb. gun with iron sights, and you don't do that if you shakin' in your boots while shooting. This 500 weighs nearly 5 lbs. and a wheezer load of a 460 at 1,200 fps. has produced the problem. Whatever it is, it's perplexing. P.S. I'm still not afraid!:drinks:

[dubber123]

I just read my own post, and before too many of you think I'm a complete jerk, realize I said what I did mostly to yank 44man's chain for calling me a sissy. No I'm not recoil proof, about 3 cylinders full are all I need. No I can't shoot 1" iron sight groups at 50 yds. with a short barreled handgun at will either. My average was probably just over 1-1/4" though, so I still say that shows some degree of recoil tolerance. My point is that if this 500 has to be held "just so" to work, I don't care for it very much! Really I was just pokin' fun at 44man, I'll wait to see what he says!

[dubber123]

If you can't disable the double action maybe making it VERY heavy would help. Look and see if you can add heavy springs to the double action while leaving the single action alone. A 30# double action may solve the problem.......just a thought.

We tried the heavy D/A idea today, I removed the guide pin in the rebound spring, and slid another spring inside the factory one, and it really pumped up the D/A. pull. My brother tried it first, and the very first round unlocked, and rotated backwards so that the next shot fell on the already fired round. I tried it next from the bench, and got 3 malfunctions in 5 shots. I'm at a loss again, if it were mine, I'd have cut it up into little pieces. Oh well, back to the drawing board.:???:

[happy7]

Dubber, I commiserate with you. I have never had that problem with mine, and I have experimented with different grips. As I have gained confidence with the gun I don't mind even gripping it quite loosely one handed. Can you get your hands on another one there somewhere to see how it shoots for you. I mean if you could shoot another just fine then that would prove it is not your "technique" to blame and that the problem is with the gun. You could even video yourself shooting both and send the gun with the video back to S&W. I guess if they have already had it that means that they couldn't duplicate the problem? Makes no sense to me.

I am curious. How does the recoil on the 500 compare to the lighter 475?

[dubber123]

Dubber, I commiserate with you. I have never had that problem with mine, and I have experimented with different grips. As I have gained confidence with the gun I don't mind even gripping it quite loosely one handed. Can you get your hands on another one there somewhere to see how it shoots for you. I mean if you could shoot another just fine then that would prove it is not your "technique" to blame and that the problem is with the gun. You could even video yourself shooting both and send the gun with the video back to S&W. I guess if they have already had it that means that they couldn't duplicate the problem? Makes no sense to me.

I am curious. How does the recoil on the 500 compare to the lighter 475?

Both my brother and I agree the .475 is nastier in the recoil department. My .475 has a 4-3/4" barrel, and the load is a 440 at 1,325 fps, and is very "whippy", whereas the .500 comes much more straight back. There is a 2 pound difference in guns, with the .475 being the lighter. No ports on the .475 The .475 also has lots of nice sharp edges. A full power heavy bullet .500 has plenty of recoil, and pounds the palm of your hand after a while. I have talked to a few people with the .500's, and no one has this problem, but most are shooting factory ammo, usually lighter bullet stuff.

[happy7]

I figured the 475 would be more painful to shoot. Also handier to tote around I would think.

[dubber123]

I figured the 475 would be more painful to shoot. Also handier to tote around I would think.

The .475 is a great carry piece, and I'll likely hunt with it this year. The recoil is tolerable, and I may have found an accurate practice load that shoots to the same point of aim as the full power loads, which will make practice alot nicer. We had another fellow at the range shoot the .500, as he has an identical model, and reports no problems. He had two of the same type of malfunctions as my brother and I do, in 15 rounds. He still offered to buy it, so our troubles may be over. If it sells, my brother plans to replace it with a BFR in .475. We'll see at the next pistol shoot.