Miss-matched Boolit to Barrel?

[nitroproof]

Hi guys, this is my first post here, I’ve been lurking around this site for a while learning a lot!

I have an 1880‘s vintage Whitney rolling block relined to .38-55 (.372" bore / .379" groove, 1-18" twist). I’m shooting a Hoch 310 grain (1.2” long) semi-spitzer boolit cast @ 25:1. Slugs drop around 307 grains @ .3815”. Sizer/lubricator has a .381” die.

I’ve also been experimenting with Oregon Trail Laser-Cast 240 grain bullets, they don’t shoot as well as my home hade cuties.

My casting skills are rudimentary, don’t have a thermometer (working between wrinkles and frosted bullets). Have a few hundred pounds of old lead waterline pipe for material. I’ve been shooting SPG lubed bullets with 15gr. 2400.

My groups suck… At 100 yds. they appear to group fairly well but 200 yd. targets have evidence of bullet wobble. Haven’t tried out at 300 yds, the rifle wears a Leatherwood Malcolm 3X scope, may be able to squeak 300 yards out of the external scope mounts.

Is the 1-18 twist too slow for the 310 slugs? Would a Lee 379-250 RF bullet work better? According to the Mountain Mold sites bullet design program the 310 gr. slug works best with a 1:16 twist and a 250 gr. with a 1:19 twist. I found the string on the Group Buy for the Lee 265 grain molds just days after it closed (dang: day late, dollar short as usual).

Suggestions please! :holysheep

Thanks, Craig (NRA Lifer)

[Frank46]

Craig, is there a web page for the leatherwood scopes?. Would like to check them out. Just got a swedish rolling block and was thinking what to do with it. Maybe a 30-30, 38-55 or 45/70. Thanks, Frank

[Buckshot]

..................The guys shooting BPCR silhuette are using 14 & 16" twists for the .375" mouseguns and those long boolits. The common 45 cal twist is 18" and for the .40 cals it's 16". I understand that's a complaint of the Uberti Hi-Walls in 38-55 as having an 18" twist.

Apropo of nothing, the British P53 Enfield of 58 cal had a 72" twist for it's 530gr Minie'. In the words of that famous British engineer of the day, Sir Joseph Whitworth, "Just exactly what were they thinking"?

Welcome to the board, BTW.

..............Buckshot

[nitroproof]

http://www.leatherwoodoptics.com/index-malcolm.html

http://www.bpcrshooter.com/HuntReport1.html

For some reason Leatherwood's site only covers the long 6X scope, so I added a link to an article about the Malcolms. I have the 16" long 3X version, got mine from MidwayUSA.


:holysheep Craig

[twotrees]

My wife shoots the 38-55 in H&R Target classic and it really likes 335 gr boolits with Holy Black. (Duplex with 40 gr of 3F). I hyave some commercial cast boolits with a bevel base and can't get them to shoot with white powder. I have cast some Lee 248 gr boolits at 20 to 1 mix.

If your trying to cast the plumbers lead straight, you might want to add some solder (60-40) to get the boolits to fill out and harden some. I use SPG with Black Powder, but Alox with white powder. You MUST Clean completely if you switch lubes, especialy going from BP with SPG to commerical lubed boolits as you WILL get TAR in your barrel.

Hope you get yours shooting as it seems to be a great round to play with.

Welcome to the board, also.

TwoTrees

[nitroproof]

Buckshot/TwoTrees~

I did a quick web search and found the H&R .38-55's share the 1-18 twist. I found the Whitney at a local gun show in the early 1990's, the chamber and throat were rough to say the least so off to went to the gunsmith for relining, color case & bluing and added a set of Shaver Long range tang sites.

I shot it at BPCR silhouette for about 4 years with the set up before building a 45-70 on a Remmy RB .43 Spanish action. I started shooting the Montana Precision's 265 grain bullets then ordered the Hoch mold. The Montana bullets were accurate especially with H-4198 smokeless. The big Hoch bullets were much better at knocking down turkeys and rams. Haven't shot sillywet since 1999, hadn't fired up the caster since then either. I bought the Oregon Trail bullets and shot it occasionally.

When Leatherwood came out with the 3X Malcolm reproduction scope I just had to have one, and the Whitney RB was the perfect candidate. Just the thing AARP eyes... Had a casting session about two months ago.

So before I do anything drastic I'll try TwoTrees advice and try the Hoch with BP. (That's why my lube-sizer is still charged with SPG)

TwoTrees~ what is your duplex priming charge? Never tried duplexing... and yes, I add some tin to my scrap lead...

The Whitney hasn't tasted BP in almost 10 years!

Thanks for your replies-

Craig :holysheep

[twotrees]

I have been using 4.7 gr (Lee .5cc dipper) of Bulleye (Yea I said it) under 40 gr of 3F Goex and it shoots like a house a fire. I let 20 guys try it at a Varmint shoot and the bore looked good after 50 rounds. Clean up was easy with Murphy's Oil soap and water. (I keep a gallon plastic jug 3/4 full and drop the fired cases as I go.)

If it would help, I load each case with BE then check under 100 watt bulb before dropping in the 3F. An over powder wad (36 cal Ox Yoke ) goes over the powder. I compress only to bullet seating depth and seat boolit,no crimp.

You could use 4227 or 4198 instead of the BE, but it has worked for me. I will say that I have been loading with a single stage (Rock Chucker) and B and M powder measure since the mid 60's. I am as careful as I can be and NO ONE is allowed in the room when I am, loading Powder, Ever, Never, not once.

PS: Clean it then clean it again untill ALL of the Non-SPG lube is out of the barrel, then try the BP loads with SPG only.

If I get a smokeless load that the gun likes I'll post it here.

Till then

Good Shooting,

TwoTrees

[Frank46]

http://www.leatherwoodoptics.com/index-malcolm.html

http://www.bpcrshooter.com/HuntReport1.html

For some reason Leatherwood's site only covers the long 6X scope, so I added a link to an article about the Malcolms. I have the 16" long 3X version, got mine from MidwayUSA.


:holysheep Craig

Craig, thanks for the web site info. Frank

[22cf45]

Craig
I wouldn't get discouraged yet, looking for accurate loads is half the fun.. According to Greenhills formula, your bullet length is fine although right at the max. I would try different powders. In my 38-55's, both Ballards and high walls, I have had the best accuracy with 4227and 4759 powders with velocities in the 1200 fps range.

What is the diameter of the bullets as cast? I don't run my bullets through a sizer in fear of distortion. I pan lube them and shoot 'em as cast.
Phil

[Jon K]

Craig,

Like 22cf45 says you're right at the max length for the 1:18 twist.

I think you'll get your best results with the BP duplex loads, 1200+, I tried the 335 grain Lyman w/BP & smokeless, and got same type of results you got @100 OK, but @200 lousy, at that point I gave up on that boolit (oal 1.312"). maybe i wasn't driving it fast enough, to make it fly. Rifle was Uberti High Wall 1:18 twist 30" barrel.

I have found the Saeco #571 300 grainer to work real well with BP or smokeless with that twist rate.

Jon

[nitroproof]

Whitney Rolling Block w/ Leatherwood Malcolm scope :roll:

[Buckshot]

.............Wow, that looks neat!

............Buckshot

[nitroproof]

5162

1.5" group shot today with my Whitney Roller.

Range 100 yds.

Boolit is a Lee .379-250-RF shot "as cast" over 18.5 grns of IMR 4198.

[22cf45]

Craig
There are some posts on ASSRA forum that lead one to believe that maybe 4198 could be problematical. You might want to go over there and read them. The discussion is under the "Single Shot Rifles" subject, then in "Reloading or powder problem with 45-70"

As I said in an earlier post, SR4759 is the standard choice for the 38-55.
Phil

[nitroproof]

Phil~
I went over to the ASSRA site and read the discussion you mentioned. Both 4198 & 3031 have been my "go-to" powders for ever. I've been a 45-70 shooter since 1973.

I bought a brick of CCI large rifle primers after the "great primer shortage of 2007". I haven't bought a can of rifle powder in ages.

I had been experiencing some unexplained vertical stringing with the .38/55 thought.

I'll definitely look into SR4759.

Thanks,

[22cf45]

Craig
I hope it works out for you and I think it will. It definitely shoots well in my Ballard 38-55 particurally when you consider that the bore is not very pretty. I lapped out a Lee mold (cause they don't cost much) to cast .387 to find out if the barrel wanted to shoot. When I found it shot those bullets fairly well, I ordered a Hoch mold and am currently waiting for that to arrive.
Phil

[nitroproof]

Phil~

Got a can of IMR SR4759 today :mrgreen:

Now what would you recommend for a starting load?

Thanks,

[22cf45]

Craig
I'm on the road right now, but I'll be home in a couple days, look up my data and send it to you.
Phil

[22cf45]

Craig
I made it. The load that shot best in my Ballard 38-55 breech seated, WLR, and Emmert lube pan lubed was 16.0 grs of SR4759. My bullet weighs around 265 grs. As I'm sure you know although this is a mild load, you might want to start with a little less powder and work up.
Good luck, let me know how it went.
Phil

[nitroproof]

Thanks to member 22cf45's recommendation I bought a jar of SR4759 and ordered some .38/55 Star Line "long" brass. I know, I know... change one component at a time, but I couldn't resist.

I can't fire form cases from my back porch with out the neighbors calling 911, so, I just ran the new Starries over the .379" expander ball and loaded them. My last casting session I'd knocked out about 150 Lee 379-255-RF boolits and segregated them by weight between 255 and 257 grains in 255.0 & 255.2, 255.4 & 255.6 groups (my digital scale reads in 0.2 grain incriments). The odd lighter/heavier boolits went into the "sighter" bag.

I loaded the "sighter" boolits over 15.0 grains of 4759, individual charges not weighed, and went to the range today. Three shots confirmed the new load shot 7 inches lower than my IMR 4198 load. Some minor scope mount adjustments and the old Whitney was on target at 100 yds.

Shooting my light+heavy sighters I didn't expect much in the way of groups. To my suprise the old girl put 7 shots into a 1 3/4" group, I was shooting at a Hoppes gopher target with a 1.125" center dot that the scopes cross hairs completely hide.

Will load some of my matched weight boolits with weighed charges next time out. The 4759 load didn't exhibit the vertical stringing the 4198 loads do. Looks like a winner!