Dillion RL-450 Ad in G&A March 1984

[44Vaquero]

72739

[seagiant]

Hi 44,
Thanks! This is pretty neat. 1984! Something to remember was at this time these ads were the only way to get info on loaders and or find someone that shared your interest.

I remember working on a sea-going tug in 1986 and a guy that had a Dillon Square Deal and was talking about the little Dillon and the big Dillon (450) I had been reloading a few years and had one press which was a Bonanza Co-Ax! Progressives were new to me then and I was just starting to look at them! We have so much info and feed back today it's hard to remember the Dark Ages!

[44Vaquero]

Seagiant, You are correct it was the Dark Ages! My 1st year of college and G&A was my link to the firearms world! I dog eared each month's issue cover to cover! Ross Seyfried, Garry James, and Elmer Keith was still the executive editor!! Wow, That was a long time ago.

[boltaction308]

I bought my first Dillon (450) in late '84, later converted it to a 550. I now have 3, 2 550's and a 650. According to my log books, I have loaded over 60,000 rounds of 223 on these guys over a 15 year period.

[seagiant]

Seagiant, You are correct it was the Dark Ages! My 1st year of college and G&A was my link to the firearms world! I dog eared each month's issue cover to cover! Ross Seyfried, Garry James, and Elmer Keith was still the executive editor!! Wow, That was a long time ago.

Hi,
Yea Skeeter Skelton was my favorite writer! There was a pic of him on one knee in front of a fire place with a small fire casting boolits while wearing his pistol! I just thought that was so cool. I remember when I was young I had never really shot pistols that much being raised on shotguns and rifles. I went over to my cousin's one day and he had a Ruger BH in 45 LC! I had never shot a big bore pistol before but when I shot that Ruger the clouds literally opened up and the sun shined down on me and I was hooked!

http://www.darkcanyon.net/skeeter_skelton.htm

[44Vaquero]

Yup, He was great and he passed away too soon. I actually have the memorial issue that Shooting Times published after his death.

[44Vaquero]

73637I knew that it was still ticked away on a shelf! Some great reading and a nice tribute to a great guy.

[Iowa Fox]

Thanks for posting that add. In about 1979 the price on the early 450'S was sky high but as they started selling and being mass produced the price dropped. I love my 450. I have made a few upgrades and put it on a strong mount but still pull the knob for a primer and push for powder. Never a problem with it.

[seagiant]

73637I knew that it was still ticked away on a shelf! Some great reading and a nice tribute to a great guy.

Hi,
You know it's a shame to say this but more people have passed away that I would of enjoyed drinking some good scotch with,than the "celebrities" we have to day! Most of the old guys that are gone were actually Heros and role models for me! What do kids have today? Basketball players?????? Lord help us!

[44Vaquero]

Iowa Fox, you should check out some of Seagiant's post he is a big fan of the RL-350 and suggested that I look into the 450 as a replacement for my Load Master. Since I only really load .45 ACP on my LM a dedicated 450 may be in my future?

[seagiant]

Iowa Fox, you should check out some of Seagiant's post he is a big fan of the RL-350 and suggested that I look into the 450 as a replacement for my Load Master. Since I only really load .45 ACP on my LM a dedicated 450 may be in my future?

Hi,
Well...I see Dillon 450's go for around $250 all the time and to me that is a bargain! Why anyone would buy a Lee LM when they could get a 450 for the same money is a mystery to me???

[Artful]

I got my RL-300 in '82 I think
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri79partial.pdf
check out page 13
http://www.dillonprecision.com/about_us.html


Our first hobby-level progressive loader – The RL-300 – was a major learning experience. We built maybe 900 or 1000 of them, and lost about $100 on each one. This led to the RL-450, a less expensive machine to produce, and one that got the attention of the “big guys” in the reloading industry. By 1984, both Hornady and RCBS either had introduced or were preparing to introduce their own progressive reloaders, and they were much stronger than us in the distributor market. I wasn’t going to fight their fight. All good fighter pilots know that you don’t fight the other guy’s fight. Instead, I went into direct marketing. This was a go-for-broke thing. I spent every dollar I could raise on advertising. We had to sell 500 machines that month to pay for all the advertising we had purchased – we sold 5000.

[MtGun44]

I bought a 450 in about 82 or so and much later converted it to 550 specs. Sold it about 15 yrs ago
and bought a second 550, was running the 450/550 and a 550B for a long time.
Like the blue machines.

Bill

[seagiant]

Hi,
That's good info on the Dillon RL-300! I guess the 300 taught Mike Dillon about the economics of castings! To be fair, I have to give him credit because when he came up with the casting for the 450, at least he made it stout enough! I have two 300's and wish I had two more. I bought a 450 just to try and it's turning into a great loader also!

[Artful]

I wish someone would make a head for the 300 that would take the 550 tool head to change out dies.

[Iowa Fox]

Iowa Fox, you should check out some of Seagiant's post he is a big fan of the RL-350 and suggested that I look into the 450 as a replacement for my Load Master. Since I only really load .45 ACP on my LM a dedicated 450 may be in my future?

Keep your Eyes open. There a many old 450s out there that never saw a lot of use that pop up at estate sales or just for sale. If you purchase one make sure you get it complete as many parts are no longer available from Dillon. You could upgrade it but then its not the same. If you do find one I know you will like it.

[44Vaquero]

Iowa Fox, I have already noticed that you can find the upgraded one fairly easily. Once upgraded they are pretty much just a 550 with out the removable tool head.

Artful, I think that your wish is not impossible, but with only 900 350's having been made who is going to invest the CAD time on basically a one off custom head?

[seagiant]

Iowa Fox, I have already noticed that you can find the upgraded one fairly easily. Once upgraded they are pretty much just a 550 with out the removable tool head.

Artful, I think that your wish is not impossible, but with only 900 350's having been made who is going to invest the CAD time on basically a one off custom head?

Hi,
Starting out,and loading single stage for years,I never had a problem with screwing out dies. I can understand the neatness and organizational benefit of everything on one head for a particular caliber. To be honest getting so heavy into this hobby I've just about got a progressive LOADER for each caliber that I shoot regular, and don't have to change out dies anyway!

[mroliver77]

I bought a 450 upgraded to a 550 including a new frame. I also got the extra parts with it. There are times I prefer the manual powder drop and manual primer loader. I looked into building the stripped 450 frame back into a machine but it is not economical. The stripped 450 frame could prolly be had for a good price or barter. ;) ;).
Jay

[TNsailorman]

Everybody has their opinion on loaders. I have had several C-H machines, RCBS Rockchuckers(the old ones), one lyman(c style), a Dillon Square Deal, a Dillon 550, and 2 Dillon 450's. I'll take a 450 any day over a 550. I like the solid head of the 450 better because there is 0 movement once the dies are screwed down. I am back to a C-H 205 and a RCBS Rockchucker old style right now, having sold the others along the way. If I could find another 450 I might trade or buy it but right now I am happy with my current presses. All of Dillons stuff that I have owned is first class. Reloaders today have it made, loads of first class equipment, selection of powder and bullets that the old timers could only dream about, and a world of information at their fingertips. Back in the 50's when I learned to reload from an uncle, it was hard to even find anyone who sold reloading supplies and when you did, you took what they had or did without. Makes me want to stay around another 71 years.

[Dutchman]

Bought my 450b in 1984. I think it was $240 or close to it. Never had a single problem with it.

http://images61.fotki.com/v666/photos/4/28344/9895637/DSCF3879z-vi.jpg

[seagiant]

Hi Dutchman,
Nice press and workbench! I'm going to stick my neck out and say if it was not for the success of the RL-450 model, Dillon Precision may not of been around today! The reason it was a success was that it worked and used a complete casting that cut down on the machining operations to build it. A strong well made press at a fair price! I actually prefer it over the 550 and through my travels on the NET have found others that feel the same!

Look at your pic with it next to the RCBS Rockchucker,it is a stout press!

[Alvarez Kelly]

Believe it or not, I was digging in my parts bin and found a Dillon RL450 bare frame. If anyone is serious... I'll trade it straight cross for an RL550 frame.

Just a thought. :-)

Pics available by text or real email.

[Dutchman]

Hi Dutchman,
Nice press and workbench!

That's actually my son-in-law's end of the loading room. I gave him the Dillon since I don't use it for small runs.

This is my loading bench..

http://images52.fotki.com/v1553/photos/4/28344/9895637/DSCF3872z-vi.jpg

[44Vaquero]

73768
Hey Seagiant, Remember the conversation the other day about every manufacture having had their share of bad ideas? Want to take a stab at 'What was Dillion thinking with this one?". Was this a precursor to the square deal?

It almost looks like a Frankstiened RCBS Partner press!

[seagiant]

Hi,
I'm sure Alverez Kelly has forgotton more about Dillon than I know,but I would say that is what morphed into the Square Deal Press! I don't think that was really a bad idea as some people wanted a "cheaper" progressive loader that didn't need large volumes of ammo! IMO Dillon knew the type of people he was looking to buy his product and tried to put out equipment that would appeal to that crowd and I think people will agree he succeded!

[Jack Stanley]

For you Dillon history guys when did the 550 first appear ? I bought mine shortyly after they were advertised in magazines and such . I think it was 1987 or 88 but my remembering is foggy there .

Jack

[44Vaquero]

Seagiant, At this point I am getting a kick out of researching and finding all this cool old stuff that I never knew existed! No, you really can't argue with Dillion's success they make and support a great product line. Learning the history of some of this stuff is getting to addictive.

Jack, I think you are pretty close on that date. My reference material has noticeable hole around 85/86, I must have had a hot girlfriend about then! LOL Then they pick up again in late 87/88 and the RL-550 shows up in ads.

Yes, it was a precursor to the SD and apparently 2 types/variant's were made one using 7/8 x 14 dies and one using Dillion dies.

737957379673794

I found a few pics on calguns.net

[44Vaquero]

From another forum, the poster is from Scottsdale AZ:
Approximate Short History.
1960s- Mike Dillon has a friend crash while flying one of Mike's Warbirds.Mike inherits a thompson Submachine gun, eventually acquires a Star reloader; all is well. Later, Mike buys an M-16 rifle- no conversion offered by Star, but by modifying a .380 ACP conversion, he is able to load 223 on the Star reloader. Sells some as the "Super Star" conversion.
Mike acquires a 1917 Browning Machine gun. No room to load 30-06 on a Star, so he creates the RL-1000 to be able to load rifle ammunition progressively. Begins to sell them to fellow Class 3 shooters, commercial loaders. Business grows out of his garage, creation of Dillon Precision Products.
Late 1970's- develop the RL-300, first affordable progressive loader generally available to public. less than 1000 sold, expensive to produce(BTW, no lifetime warranty on RL1000, RL-300. Few parts left for either.) About 1980, refine the RL-300 concept, introduce the RL-450. Less expensive, more reliable, first Dillon loader to have a lifetime warranty.
January 1984- Dillon goes factory direct for sales.Price cut in half, sales beyond anyone's wildest expectations.
May 1985- RL-550 replaces the RL-450, offers detachable toolhead, case-activated powder measure, automatic priming system.
November, 1986- Introduction of the Square Deal- a smaller progressive reloader,
just for the common handgun cartridges. Uses proprietary drop-in insert dies, offers auto-indexing of the shellplate.
Late 1980s- Introduction of the RL 450 jr, a small progressive/single stage loader.The initial offering used a regular 7/8-14 die in station 1, and Square Deal dies in stations 2,3 &4. This allowd it to be used to load the common handgun calibers progressively, and rifle cartridges as a single stage. Eventually changed to use Square Deal dies exclusively in all four stations, limiting versatility. The 450 jr had no primer feed, primers were set in the seatting cup one at a time. The machine came with just a funnel to pour powder through, and could be equipped with an optional manual powder drop. The 450 jr was discontinued several years later.
Winter, 1989- RL1000 replaced by the RL1050.
1991-ish- Introduction of the XL650. Offers caliber change costs similar to the RL550, with auto-indexing, extra station for an optional powder check, a case feed tube and optional electric case feeder.
December, 2005- Case feeder becomes available for the RL550. :ph34r:

[seagiant]

From another forum, the poster is from Scottsdale AZ:
Approximate Short History.
1960s- Mike Dillon has a friend crash while flying one of Mike's Warbirds.Mike inherits a thompson Submachine gun, eventually acquires a Star reloader; all is well. Later, Mike buys an M-16 rifle- no conversion offered by Star, but by modifying a .380 ACP conversion, he is able to load 223 on the Star reloader. Sells some as the "Super Star" conversion.
Mike acquires a 1917 Browning Machine gun. No room to load 30-06 on a Star, so he creates the RL-1000 to be able to load rifle ammunition progressively. Begins to sell them to fellow Class 3 shooters, commercial loaders. Business grows out of his garage, creation of Dillon Precision Products.
Late 1970's- develop the RL-300, first affordable progressive loader generally available to public. less than 1000 sold, expensive to produce(BTW, no lifetime warranty on RL1000, RL-300. Few parts left for either.) About 1980, refine the RL-300 concept, introduce the RL-450. Less expensive, more reliable, first Dillon loader to have a lifetime warranty.
January 1984- Dillon goes factory direct for sales.Price cut in half, sales beyond anyone's wildest expectations.
May 1985- RL-550 replaces the RL-450, offers detachable toolhead, case-activated powder measure, automatic priming system.
November, 1986- Introduction of the Square Deal- a smaller progressive reloader,
just for the common handgun cartridges. Uses proprietary drop-in insert dies, offers auto-indexing of the shellplate.
Late 1980s- Introduction of the RL 450 jr, a small progressive/single stage loader.The initial offering used a regular 7/8-14 die in station 1, and Square Deal dies in stations 2,3 &4. This allowd it to be used to load the common handgun calibers progressively, and rifle cartridges as a single stage. Eventually changed to use Square Deal dies exclusively in all four stations, limiting versatility. The 450 jr had no primer feed, primers were set in the seatting cup one at a time. The machine came with just a funnel to pour powder through, and could be equipped with an optional manual powder drop. The 450 jr was discontinued several years later.
Winter, 1989- RL1000 replaced by the RL1050.
1991-ish- Introduction of the XL650. Offers caliber change costs similar to the RL550, with auto-indexing, extra station for an optional powder check, a case feed tube and optional electric case feeder.
December, 2005- Case feeder becomes available for the RL550. :ph34r:

Hi 44,
I'm going to copy and paste that! It's probably the best timeline I've seen on the NET! I've never met Mike Dillon,but you have to admire a guy that see's a hole in an Industry and decides to fill it!

[44Vaquero]

Seagiant,I have seen the posters Avatar on several different forums and I am inclined to think it's a Dillion employee.

[Alvarez Kelly]

... it was a precursor to the SD and apparently 2 types/variant's were made one using 7/8 x 14 dies and one using Dillion dies.

The 450 Jr. came in 3 variants, referred to as the A, B, and C models. One of them used the industry standard 7/8 x 14 sizing/decap die, but used Square Deal style dies in the other holes. The other 2 models used the exact same die set as the Square Deals used. I can't remember right off which model was which. I have it here somewhere... :-)

[44Vaquero]

This thread just keeps going and going! It's all rather interesting trivia, none of the information is in one place!