Shortening the LEE sizing die

[rasto]

Hi there.
I am wondering if somebody shortened, by lathe, the bottom of the LEE sizing die expecially 9mm luger.
The point is that the die touch the shell holder but the brass is not sized properly up to the bottom and the concave still appears.

I am asking, due to the fact, that I am reloading yard collected brass and the quality and brands differ.

[TNsailorman]

I assume the concave you are talking about is the bulge near the base from an unsupported portion of the chamber. If so, what you need is a push thru sizing die to size the whole case. I think Redding makes them. james

[hd09]

You might try the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Sometimes the shellholder is off thickness dimension. BvT

[seagiant]

Hi,
I have NEVER had any problems resizing 9MM brass. Of course I buy once fired and do not use any Glock barrels. I refuse to buy range scrap as you know no history on it! You might want to purchase a real case guage,Wilson or Dillon to see what exactly is going on and where the problem is at.

[felix]

Sometimes the shellholder is off thickness dimension. BvT

You got that right! That is the problem with tools meant for a universal application, like exchangeable or interchangeable parts are. It has nothing to do with brand name per se. ... felix

[Wheeljack]

If you mean that your finished round has a concave or waist in the shell, I was told to ignore it. But, experiment. Use the resizing die just on the neck of the shell so you would not let the shell holder touch the die. Just the opposite of what you are thinking of doing. Then a minimum flare in the expanding die and then when seating the bullet use just enough crimp to only remove the flare. Check for a proper tight fit of the boolit. I use Factory Crimp Die and again here, you may or may not need more crimp. It's best to load using the same brand of shells so the length of the shell is more constant.

[khmer6]

I grinded one of my #19? Shell holders down..... And then hid it from myself. Only use it for sizing 9s and 10s

[Larry Gibson]

It's easy to remove the top of the shell holder by laying a piece of crocus cloth on a hard flat surface and move the shell holer back and forth or in a circular motion. Test periodically to see if it is sizing the ay you want.

You can remove some off the bottom of a standard (not the carbide sizer) die with carfull grinding on a fine grinding whell in a good bench grinder or on a lathe (best). The die is hardened so a slight grinding off of the hardened surface helps unless you have a carbide cutter for the lathe and even then i grind the hardened layer off. After facing of as much as you want you will have to polish the sharp edge and might even have to rebevel depending on how much of the die was removed. Make sure you clean the die off outside and inside very well (perfectly clean) before sizing any cases.

I also have sized a lot of 9mm cases over 40+ years of reloading and have never had to do either of the above for any 9mm FL die with any cases. It is not necessary to size the case back down so the "bulge" at the expansion ring is entirely gone. As long as the sized case drops easily into the chamber of the barrel (never had any that didn't) then they are sized "enough". Suggest you try that before you alter the die or shell holer.

Larry Gibson

[Wheeljack]

A bulge in the case would be convex. The narrowing would be concave. Because the Glock does not support the area of the shell near the base, it sometimes results in a bulge. On the other hand, a resized case that has been flared, the bullet seated and crimped, often results in a narrowing of the shell in the middle. Does this sound right?
Poprawny?

[wallenba]

I have that problem with my Ruger 77/357 rifle. Small bulge near the bottom does not get ironed out. I removed the decapping pin from my FL sizing die, and using something flat on top of the shellholder, I pushed the case as far as it would go into the die. I then tapped it out from the top with a piece of wooden dowel. Use lube if you try this, even with a carbide die. It will help. I have only gotten to the experimental stages, and am not considering firing them now as per the advice given per the 9mm below. Don't know your situation.

However, if you shoot a Glock, you should read this caveat from Lee Precision:

Glock Cases: We do not recommend "fixing" cases fired in pistols with unsupported chambers, because there is no way to make them safe once they have bulged. The case wall is thinned where it bulges, and resizing the outside of the case back down to the correct diameter does not restore the case back to its original thickness. If this case is fired in a pistol with an unsupported chamber again, and this thinned section of brass happens to line up with the unsupported part of the chamber, there is a high probability that the case will rupture.

[grampa243]

Hi,
I have NEVER had any problems resizing 9MM brass. Of course I buy once fired and do not use any Glock barrels. I refuse to buy range scrap as you know no history on it! You might want to purchase a real case guage,Wilson or Dillon to see what exactly is going on and where the problem is at.

seagiant most once fired is range scap.

[DougGuy]

Cannot use a push-through resizing die for 9mm because the rim of the case is larger than the O.D. of the case. That's why Lee doesn't make a "bulge buster" kit for 9mm.

[rasto]

DougGuy you are right therefore I wanted to know If somebody tried to shorten it. I meant Lee carbide sizing die.
I use Double Alpha case gauge and the problematic brass is visible there.
Here is a picture. It is not so easy to see but it is there and the end of sizing die touch as well.
http://img.janforman.com/th/CIMG2510que0.JPG (http://img.janforman.com/CIMG2510que0.JPG)

I am using Lee Loadmaster so no shell holder shaving.

[warpspeed]

I have taken the 9mm die and removed the material with a bench mounted belt sander. Take off just down to the carbide ring.

I had not thought to thin the shell holder but I guess on a single stage press that would help.

The best solution is a Case-Pro roll sizer. Redding does not make a push through die as the case is tapered unlike the 40S&W.

[dragonrider]

If the rounds chamber well I don't see that you have a problem at all.

[Wheeljack]

DougGuy you are right therefore I wanted to know If somebody tried to shorten it. I meant Lee carbide sizing die.
I use Double Alpha case gauge and the problematic brass is visible there.
Here is a picture. It is not so easy to see but it is there and the end of sizing die touch as well.
http://img.janforman.com/th/CIMG2510que0.JPG (http://img.janforman.com/CIMG2510que0.JPG)
I am using Lee Loadmaster so no shell holder shaving.

Oh! Does this look like "Incipient Case Head Separation"? "A dangerous condition caused by the weakening and thinning of the case at the junction of the web and sidewall." From Lyman Pistol & Revolver, 3rd Edition. There is also a thread under Guns & Shooting/ CB Loads/Military Rifles.

[DougGuy]

DougGuy you are right therefore I wanted to know If somebody tried to shorten it. I meant Lee carbide sizing die.
I use Double Alpha case gauge and the problematic brass is visible there.
Here is a picture. It is not so easy to see but it is there and the end of sizing die touch as well.
http://img.janforman.com/th/CIMG2510que0.JPG (http://img.janforman.com/CIMG2510que0.JPG)

I am using Lee Loadmaster so no shell holder shaving.

Well, how come untold hundreds of thousands of reloads of 9mm worked and never had a problem before now? Do they feed and cycle okay and does the gun shoot with the case like that? It seems that the reloader of the ammo has a problem with it but the gun might not.

[Wheeljack]

DougGuy, did you think before you wrote that?

[DougGuy]

Well, how come untold hundreds of thousands of reloads of 9mm worked and never had a problem before now? Do they feed and cycle okay and does the gun shoot with the case like that? It seems that the reloader of the ammo has a problem with it but the gun might not.


DougGuy, did you think before you wrote that?

I don't understand what you are getting at with that question. My statement referred more or less to "Why is there a problem now, when there wasn't a problem that kept others from reloading hundreds of thousands of rounds?" I'm sure the bulge below the carbide sizer ring was there for a long time before the case gauge, and if it works in the gun but just doesn't "look" right, then is it really a problem at all or just unsightly? That's what I was getting at. And I am by no means picking on the OP either. Just seems like if the ammo works in the gun, then it might not need fixing.

[Mike Kerr]

Wheeljack, I believe DougGuy is saying that the problem lies with the reloader's (OP) perception of the situation and that in actual shooting of the round there will not be a problem. The gun should cycle it just fine. With what is being referred to as a bulged case we are ignoring that tons of 9mm is reloaded every day with a similar imperfection.
Shouldn't have to mess with the die. I have reloaded many 9mm rounds with small "distortions" like shown in the photo and experienced no problems as long as the round chambers smoothly. Heck he is reloading mixed headstamp range brass.

[Mike Kerr]

BTW In my previous post I am not saying to "fix" the bulge as Lee Precision cautions againist. Its just a reality in this caliber that you get some bulge at the bottom of the case. Don't FIX IT cause its not worth the time.

[Wheeljack]

Sorry, it is hard to see in the picture, but I thought if there was a chance that it was "Incipient Case Head Separation" that to err on the side of safety and check it out was the thing to do. I didn't mean to over react, it's just that none of my brass has a bulge there and I wanted to play it safe.

[Recluse]

In over forty years of reloading LOTS of 9mm, I've never had case head separation.

I can also buy a lot of brass for the price of a new die if the brass is so bad as to need modifying a die in an attempt to save it.

:coffee:

[rasto]

First of all, the gun won't feed it correctly due to narrow chamber (Glock IVgen). CZ75TS has no problem at all. So should I remove material from the Lee die or not? Will it solve my problem?

[DougGuy]

First of all, the gun won't feed it correctly due to narrow chamber (Glock IVgen). CZ75TS has no problem at all. So should I remove material from the Lee die or not? Will it solve my problem?

Thanks for telling us that it won't feed correctly. I would try another die before tearing into the Lee die.

The die on the left is a Redding Pro Series Titanium Carbide sizing die in 9mm.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/dies_zps514d5668.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/dies_zps514d5668.jpg.html)

[khmer6]

I had issues in my glock nit chambering some 9s that I shot thousands of through my 92. A quick run thought the Lee FCD did the trick.

[mdi]

To answer your question, as I read it; Yes, material can be removed from the bottom/entrance end of a sizing die. I have removed a bit of metal, a few thousandths, to allow the die to size more of the case, near the head as an experiment. As mentioned above, the same effect can come from removing metal from the top of the shell holder. In effect, the shell enters the die more, deeper...