Working up a powder load from scratch.

[BoolitChaser]

In addition to casting my own, there are LOTS of places in this town to buy cast bullets of all popular calibers. Here is the problem. I can cast/buy all the cast bullets I need. Powder is a different story. The only powders in ANY local stores are the lesser known, lesser used powders. Lots of shotgun powders, NO pistol powders.

I have all the powder I need right now, but there is no load data for some of my powders and certain cast boolits. Here's what I have come up with. Your input is anxiously sought and if this is a stupid idea, just say so.

Let's say I want to load some 110Gr flat nose hard cast in 38 special cases. There is no load data for Titegroup and that cast boolit. Not in print, not online (if there is I can't find it).

Here is my method. Look at other Titegroup load levels for other similar weight bullets in 38 special loads. This gives me some ballpark lo/hi potential loads for 38 special Titegroup in similar (close) cast bullet weights.

Now, I can find a load for Bullseye in 38 special for a 110gr flat nose hard cast bullet, but I do not have any Bullseye and cannot find any. Here is where the science part comes in.

Step 1 - write down the Bullseye load for that cartridge and bullet.

Step 2 - find another 38 special load for a similar weight bullet (say up to 130 grains) that lists loads for Bullseye AND Titegroup. As an example, using made up numbers, lets say the minimum loads are Bullseye 3.8 grains and Titegroup 3.6 grains. There is also a 0.2 grain difference in the maximum loads for the same two powders.

Step 3 - do the same for several more Bullseye/Titegroup loads just to be sure that the 0.2 grain difference isn't an outlier.

Step 4 - take the MINIMUM Bullseye load for the 110gr lead bullet (from step one), subtract 0.2 grains to get the Titegroup equivalent. Check the calculated starting load and check to be sure that it is within the hi/lo range for other Titegroup loads in a 38 special round with a similar weight bullet.

Step 5 - Load up 5 rounds placing the calculated load in the center round and then go 0.2 grains up and 0.2 grains down for 5 rounds. Take to the range. Load ONE round at a time and fire it. Check the target. If there is no hole in the target then check the pistol for a squib. Document recoil, accuracy, etc. and fire the other 4 rounds and record their results.

Step 6 - Take the best performing load and use it to work up an accurate safe load.

Comments? Is there an easier and/or safer way?

[nhrifle]

That is exactly how I do it. Have fun and let sanity and common sense be your guide. A powder burn chart is pretty handy too!

[alfloyd]

"Bullseye 3.8 grains and Titegroup 3.6 grains. There is also a 2 grain difference"

I think that you ment to use 0.2 grains difference, not 2 grain difference.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Lafaun

[runfiverun]

or you could just use 4.3 to 4.8 grs like the book I have here shows.
it's a 110gr jaxketed load so you might wanna reduce it a tick.

[btroj]

"Lots of shotgun powders, no pistol powders".

Shotgun powders ARE pistol powders. With a few exceptions all shotgun powders work quite well in pistol cartridges. Red dot, 700X, Clays just to name a few.

What shotgun powder can you get? Look in your manual, you will likely see it listed for handgun.

[BoolitChaser]

That is exactly how I do it. Have fun and let sanity and common sense be your guide. A powder burn chart is pretty handy too!
Thanks. I have a powder burn chart and have included its info in my notes. Didn't want to complicate the example with burn rate considerations.

(Barrett's Law of Driving #1: You can get ANYWHERE in ten minutes if you go
fast enough.)

[BoolitChaser]

I think that you ment to use 0.2 grains difference, not 2 grain difference.
Correct me if I am wrong. Lafaun

No, you are right. I was doing the post late at night after an exhausting day. When doing the actual calcs I use a calculator to avoid the types of mental errors you pointed out. Calculator - always right. My Brain Late At Night - Foggy. When doing the actual calcs I tripple check everything. A ten fold error like in my example could be the end of the pistol - or me.

(Due to revised security regulations your new password needs to contain a capital letter, a number, an emoji, 8 elements from the Periodic Table, and a plot containing a protagonist with some character development and a twisted ending. Thank you.)

[BoolitChaser]

or you could just use 4.3 to 4.8 grs like the book I have here shows.
it's a 110gr jaxketed load so you might wanna reduce it a tick.

My book shows that same load for a 110Gr Hornady XTP. My initial calculations give 3.2 to 4.0 for 110Gr lead. That's why I was asking for input from wiser hands.

(Ginsberg's Restatement of the Three Laws of Thermodynamics: 1) You can't win; 2) You can't quit; 3) You can't break even.)

[BoolitChaser]

What shotgun powder can you get? Look in your manual, you will likely see it listed for handgun.

My next move is to visit the gun store again (the ONE that actually has some powder) and make a list of ALL available powders. Then return home and see which ones might be listed for pistol. Thanks for the input.

("I hate people that quote themselves and think it's funny." - ME!!!)

[RedneckRob]

Carry your book/s with you. That's what I do. The one that's closest one to me has reloading books there for the customer to go through to make sure they get everything they need.

[runfiverun]

my load of titegroup with a 125 gr boolit in the 38 is 4.0 grs same as it is for 231, and a 158 swc too.
I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a 110-115 gr boolit.

[Wayne Smith]

Since lead creates less pressure than copper jackets it is safe to use any jacketed data, you will be at a lower pressure point and typically a higher velocity. The safe thing to do is to take the jacketed data for that weight boolit and start at the lowest level listed.

The same is true for rifle loads, but there you have the potential problem of too high a velocity for the alloy. You seldom see that in pistol/revolver loads/

[10mmShooter]

Boolitchaser,

Heres a screen capture from one of my older Alliant/Hercules manuals, personnaly I'm a big fan of Green Dot in my .38 and .44 target loads I use Red Dot some too, Been using it years. Check out the chart you load in .357 or .38 brass..make sure you read the chart correctly.

Starting charges in .38 brass for a 110 grain Jacketed bullet is 4.0 grs of RED dot and 4.6 grs of GREEN dot velocity will be 1000+ fps....I don't think I would go any higher than the starting charge for .a .38 pistol.
you are at 16,000 psi with either load. If you are using 110 gr lead bullet you could even drop a .1 or .2 off these starting charges and work up from there.


Boolitchaser since you are new poster...please read and understand this:

AS WITH ALL RELOADING ADVISE YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY, RELOADING CAN BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND CAN RESULT IN DEATH OR SERVERE INJURY, YOU SHOULD PERSONALLY VERIFY ANY DATA BEFORING USING IT.


72492

[Tatume]

Step 5 - Load up 5 rounds placing the calculated load in the center round and then go 2 grains up and 2 grains down for 5 rounds. Take to the range. Load ONE round at a time and fire it. Check the target. If there is no hole in the target then check the pistol for a squib. Document recoil, accuracy, etc. and fire the other 4 rounds and record their results.

Document velocity. A chronograph is an invaluable instrument and one that no serious handloader or experimenter should be without.

Take care, Tom

[nwellons]

+1 on the chronograph. Decent ones can be found for around $100. Mine has helped me develop loads for obsolete cartridges and would be just a good in developing loads for modern ones. In fact, even using book numbers for modern cast boolit cartridges, I always chronograph my first loads just to be sure. And it is fun to use one too.

[BoolitChaser]

Carry your book/s with you. That's what I do. The one that's closest one to me has reloading books there for the customer to go through to make sure they get everything they need.
Our "local" gun store used to have one or more load books on hand but now they just have sealed copies. Good advice, I'll take along my 49th edition LEE handbook. Thanks.

"You don't know me. Look away. Keep walking." (Member Federal Witness Protection Program)

[BoolitChaser]

my load of titegroup with a 125 gr boolit in the 38 is 4.0 grs same as it is for 231, and a 158 swc too.


Thanks!

Redneck Divorce Decree - "Get Out Of The Truck - NOW!"

[BoolitChaser]

Since lead creates less pressure than copper jackets it is safe to use any jacketed data, you will be at a lower pressure point and typically a higher velocity. The safe thing to do is to take the jacketed data for that weight boolit and start at the lowest level listed.

This is good advice - didn't know that. THANKS!

Dyslexics have more NUF!

[BoolitChaser]

10mmShooter - That is a very handy chart. I assume the book it came from is no longer in print? Very handy to pick a caliber, a boolit weight and just read across to see a wide selection of powder choices. Thanks for the warning. Early in my reloading days I had some 38 special loads that were fired in my Ruger 357 magnum and they were VERY difficult to get out of the chamber. Figured out that I wrote the load data down wrong. Ever since then I have triple checked EVERYTHING and I am overly cautious to a fault. Shooting is fun, but not if something blows up. Lots of people are a lot braver (foolisher?) than I am and will experiment with loads well over published maximums. I'm not one of them.

Thanks again for taking the time to scan and share the chart, I'm going to print it out and add it to my 3-ring binder reference book.

The last words spoken by rednecks are often "Hold my beer and watch this!"

[BoolitChaser]

Tatume and Nwellons - I do not have a chronograph, but it is on my "gotta havit" list. I don't ever see those things for sale used on the gun forums. I suspect that sellers have no trouble finding local buyers when they hang up their loading tools for good. Thanks for the advice.

"Just be yourself - everybody else is already taken, anyway!"

[BoolitChaser]

"Bullseye 3.8 grains and Titegroup 3.6 grains. There is also a 2 grain difference"

I think that you ment to use 0.2 grains difference, not 2 grain difference.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Lafaun

You are right and I have edited the original post to correct that error.