Babbitt

[Timberlake]

Folks,

I've got a 4lb bar of babbitt stamped: "United American Metals" plus other markings such as : "Government Genuine"

Now, I doubt it's any good for bullets but just what is it good for?

TL

[StarMetal]

It's good to mail to me in one of those priority mail flat rate envelopes for three dollars and something.

Joe

[Ricochet]

It may well be usable in bullet alloys, but lots of babbitt has copper in it and isn't so great for bullets. I've got old engine restoring buddies who are always looking for that stuff. A post in the forums on http://enginads.com/ would turn up some takers, for sure.

[felix]

Copper at circa 0.5 percent in the boolit alloy would make one tough boolit. You will know if too much copper is present when the down spout freezes up on the outsides during casting. In that situation, dilute the pot by 50 percent, cutting the copper percentage by half. Et cetera. ... felix

[porkchop bob]

Folks,

I've got a 4lb bar of babbitt stamped: "United American Metals" plus other markings such as : "Government Genuine"

Now, I doubt it's any good for bullets but just what is it good for?

TL

Two types of babbitt - tin based and lead based.
_ lead based - approx composition 1-11% tin, 9-20% antimony, 0.25-0.30 arsenic and balance lead.

_ tin based - 85-90 tin, 4-8 antimony, 2.5-7 copper and balance lead.

The bar should have the type of alloy stamped on it. This link has more details. http://www.alchemyextrusions.com/babbitt

Hope this proves helpful. Bob

[drinks]

Timberlake;
There should be a site where you can find the alloy, most babbitt is marked with an identifier.
I was just given a bar of a babbitt marked #7, and it had the alloy with it, 45% Tin, 45% Lead, 6% Antimony and 4% Metallic Phosphorus.
It makes bullets of BHN #18-19, as is, will not harden with being waterdropped, fills the mold nicely, but I shall use it as a source of Tin, the 7 lb I received would add 1% Tin to about 300 lb of WW''s, equal to $25 worth of lead free solder.
Don

[Timberlake]

I've looked this rather ornate bar over pretty well. No numbers of any kind. When held and struck with a wooden dowl it rings like a church bell. Definetly hard but I don't have a clue as to the composition. I did visit the aforementioned web site and no help there. I'll probably just keep it whole and use whenever for whatever. Thanks for your help.

TL

[Paul B]

I have sixand a half ingots of XXXX babbit. Seems like it's almost 90 percent tin. I only worry about the roughly 3.5 percent copper. Guess I can melt it down over my Coleman stove and make one pound sixe ingots out of it. Some guy had it out at one of our swap meets for $2.00 and ingot. I offered him $10.00 for the whole mess and he took it. That was probably ten years ago or so, and I finally found out what was in it.
Sure wish it would cool down so I cound get started casting again. Ain't much fun out in the shed at 100 plus degrees.
Paul B.

[9.3X62AL]

I hear ya on smelting in the garage in this weather, Paul. NO FUN--AT ALL.

I don't use Babbitt per se, but do use Foundry Type to "sweeten" wheelweights for rifle metal. The lot I just scored is 15% tin, 23% antimony, and 62% lead. Cut this in at about 10/1 with wheelweights, and you get close to Taracorp (2/6/92), and 5/1 yields close to Linotype.

[glicerin]

I've analysed hi-speed babbit when I was in industry and always got approx. 80% tin. Even so called nickel-babbit was same. Suspect that copper and nickel in alloy are as powdered compounds, ie copper sulfate? Never caused a problem when added to WW as a source of tin.

[mag_01]

I use a small amount of babbitt 10% or less when I cast for 44 mag. loads and all rifle loads------Too much babbitt will give u trouble--- :lovebooli

[versifier]

Any maleable metals that are unsuitable for casting can always be rolled or pounded flat and put into postpaid envelopes for organizations such as The Coalition To Prevent Hangnail Violence, The Hillatious Clinton Campaign Slush Fund, People for the Ethical Treatment of Ambulances, etc. Before I became addicted to casting, I used to amuse myself trimming lead masonry flashing to fit into the envelopes. I always considered it to be a non-felonious way to put the lead to the elbows, but later, when I needed it to make bullets, I just had to get creative.

[RayinNH]

Versifier, where are you located in NH. I'm in Barrington...Ray

[versifier]

Hi Ray, I'm up in Conway. Tom

[kens]

Whats up with copper in babbitt using it to sweeten your alloy. Some threads say copper is good, some as this one says no.
Where can one find actual range tests of copper as a alloy supplement?

[badgeredd]

Whats up with copper in babbitt using it to sweeten your alloy. Some threads say copper is good, some as this one says no.
Where can one find actual range tests of copper as a alloy supplement?

A good babbit that contains copper is an excellent alloy sweetener. If one takes the time to learn about what works well and what does not, he'll find there is a time and place for copper in his alloy. For pistol plinking boolits, IMHO it is a waste of time and money. For HIGH pressure/high velocity rifle boolits, it really helps IF one has a balanced alloy...meaning SB. Sn and Cu are in the correct proportions. The balanced alloy part seems to escape a lot of people. Too much copper in an unbalanced alloy will give a guy fits when trying to cast with it. In the last year there have been several threads about high copper boolit alloys that may/may not be of help. Unfortunately it seems to me several folks have differing opinions on the subject.

Edd

[kens]

Yeah, I have seen the various babbitt compositions, all are approx 85-90% tin. So, if you cut the tin back to approx 3% then the little bit of copper you started with is now diluted to about zero.
Whats the ratio of copper babbit to lead, in order to get the tin down without diluting copper to zero?

[383]

I lucked into some long discontinued Grade 19 Babbitt awhile back. 86% Pb, 9% Sb, 5% Sn. Good price, but there was only two 10lb ingots.

[hickfu]

Edd, I cant wait for you to finish up your testing on the Cu being added to your alloy. I would love to be able to cast boolits that would work at high velocity in my 7mm Mag and 6.5x57 Mannlicher.. I am reading that post a little at a time to try to soak up the info.

Doc

[383]

Wow! Just realized the OP started this thread nearly seven years ago.

[waksupi]

No problem with resurrecting old threads.

[9.3X62AL]

I lucked into some long discontinued Grade 19 Babbitt awhile back. 86% Pb, 9% Sb, 5% Sn. Good price, but there was only two 10lb ingots.

Those percentages run very close to classic Linotype (84/12/4). I would likely blend your babbitt 50/50 with unalloyed lead for a very good general-purpose boolit alloy. 50/50 Lino/lead has become my "default setting" for autopistol, mag revolvers, and most rifle casting applications.

[badgeredd]

Edd, I cant wait for you to finish up your testing on the Cu being added to your alloy. I would love to be able to cast boolits that would work at high velocity in my 7mm Mag and 6.5x57 Mannlicher.. I am reading that post a little at a time to try to soak up the info.

Doc

We are still testing an experimenting BUT we have had some very promising results in rifles generating nearly 60,000 psi peak pressure. As summer proceeds, I think we'll have some real numbers and results with our alloys using #2,3, and 11 type babbit as sweeteners. I personally have moved away from adding raw copper to alloys, mainly because I want to be able to have a totally repeatable alloy that anyone can mix and get the same results as I am.

As I mentioned before, the idea of a "balanced" alloy has proven to give the most consistent results invariably.

Edd

[madsenshooter]

I think what Edd means by balanced is the percentage of Cu+the percentage of Sb=the percentage of Sn. Least that's what the formular give by Whelen for Ideal #1 was, 10%Sn, 7%Sb, 3%Cu, and the remainder Pb. Others seem to be messing with differing amounts, but I'm going to mix up some of the Ideal #1. I ladle cast and don't have to worry about Cu plugging the spout.