Making a Powder Measure Hopper!

[seagiant]

Hi,
I've had an older Lyman 55 powder measure that I bought from a member here and happened to find some acrylic 2" tubing that I thought I was out of. I have had spotty results trying to turn this tubing on my lathe so decided to make a mandrel to slip inside the tube to support it from cracking/shattering (ask me how I know this can happen) I also have a piece of PVC pipe split lengthwise to protect the tubing from the lathe chuck jaws!

This set up worked much better. The older Lyman 55 has very fine threads in the base of the measure for the hopper to screw into,admittedly I did not try to cut these threads as they are not needed if you measure the rabbet correctly and get a nice slip fit. I also coated the shoulder with "GOOP" glue and it was done. I made a cap from aluminum and knurled the outside where you grab it to take it off and on. I thought about blasting and painting the body but I'm not going to do it as I think the measure has a lot of character to show!

[44Vaquero]

Seagiant, Nice cap and you are correct about not repainting the measure funny thing is I don't feel the same about the presses. But on a powder measure it just seems right, especially on a #55.

Have you ever checked this site out: http://55project.com/ Everything you wanted to know about the #55 and then some.

[DougGuy]

Very nice work.. +1 on not repainting..

[bear67]

Had a friend from our Boy Scout Troop ask if I would turn him a hopper tube for his 55. I had done this years ago and had a problem with the tool and plastic tube rolling up dingleberries. The plastic was just some stuff in my spare parts repository and I had no idea what it was made of.
Thought about it for a while and tried vasoline--just a little. Solved the problem and wiped off with alcohol. Good job Seagiant, really like the cap. Best thing is you can increase the capacity a little.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Thanks Gentlemen! It is nice to be able to cut and make these hoppers on the lathe now! Bear,I have had no problem with the cuttings even though I know of what you speak! I keep my tooling as sharp as possible and use a moderate speed and slow feed to keep the plastic from "melting" and causing a problem!

44,I have seen that site as it also has a LOT of good info on Seaco and Hollywood measures. I will probably take my Lyman 55 apart and clean everything to finish the job. Mine is one of the older ones that have no adjusting screws. You just loosen securing screws and slide the bars to where you want!

Here is a more detailed pic on the cap!

[44Vaquero]

Yes, it is a very excellent sight, my complement's to the gentlemen running it.

Both of my 55's are 2B's (1955 to 57) narrow tongue, #4 mark in the casting and screw adj. When I picked my 2nd one I just disassembled it and polished guts with Never Dull, it looks like new on the inside. It will throw to within a 1/10 of a grain all day long if I do my part.

[DougGuy]

Not to change subject or hijack this thread but could I interest you in making an adjustable billet aluminum charge bar for the original style Lee auto disk? E. Arthur Brown Co, made these in the early 1990s and they haven't been made in probably 20yrs but they are hands down the best thing you could do to improve the Lee. I used to have one and loved it. I would gladly pay $50 for one and you could probably sell a few as well.

Pics here, can get dimensions if you want to make one: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200730-WTB-Adjustable-Aluminum-charge-bar-for-Lee-Auto-Disk-powder-measure-made-in-1990s&p=2230704&viewfull=1#post2230704

[seagiant]

Hi Doug,
Short answer,no!!!:-D I'm up to my a$$ in alligators with projects, and have to go back to work soon! Maybe you can ask that question on the Gunsmith forum and see if there is a retire with some time?

44, you got me curious about my measure and according to the site my measure should of been made in 1950-51! Which means it's older than me which is a good thing,that does not happen to much anymore! Whats funny is that the early Lyman 55's actually used aluminum caps!

[bear67]

I was probably in too much of a hurry as I did not slow down the feed or spindle speed--also did it with carbide tool. The last one I used high speed steel with less angle on the hand ground bit and either that or the vasoline worked. I use an expanding rubber plug inside plastic like this on the lathe to keep from cracking or crushing when chucking in the lathe. This is just a test plug plumbers use in pressure testing drains. Take the big outside washer off, put smaller fender washer on and tighten bolt snug. I had them from another project.

[44Vaquero]

I assumed that you were aware of the Aluminum cap version when you flaunted your new cap! Mine are older then me too! too funny.

Doug, give The Professor a shout out he might be able to make one for you.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: good job on your knurling on your PM cap.

I can offer some suggestions to advance your knurling to "perfect." Others may be interested in this subject as well.

First the main problem with the vast majority of knurls done is that they were simply NOT done deep enough. As a result the diamonds will be not completely formed or there will be single lines in one direction and double lines in the other. The pyramids will not have the top closed either which is immediately evident when you look at them closely. Same holds true when doing thread rolling, when the diameter of the part is correct the threads will look exactly like cut threads except better finish. If the dia is undersized the tops of the threads will not be closed, and they will look bad.

With most knurling tools they essentially operate like swaging tools. IE metal is "displaced" to form the diamonds.

There are several different types of knurling tools, however the ones with "Opposed Knurls are the best to use as they do not preload the spindle of the machine in one direction. The opposing knurls equalize the pressure between them, and all forces generated are in line with the spindle.

The standard "Engine Lathe" tool post style of tool pushes the work towards the back of the machines and relies on the stiffness of the part to allow enough pressure to be exerted to form the points completely. This is the main reason why you see so many bad knurls, they couldn't apply enough pressure to complete the formation of the points. The coarser the pitch of the knurls the more pressure is required to form them.

There are also knurling tools that physically cut the grooves that form the points but they are rare, and hardly anyone uses them.

Knurls are available in different "pitches." or courseness of the diamonds.

Here's the kicker. Those lines never divide into the circumference of the part equally. As a result the circumference of the part must be altered until it "IS" divisable by the pitch of the knurls . This is why sometimes you see one line in one direction and two or more in the other, the circumference of the part has not yet become divisable by the pitch of the knurls.

This is done by pushing the knurling tool into the part further and further until complete diamonds that look like little pyramids are yeilded. Just like knurling a piston increases it's diameter. To give you an idea, a 1/2" dia knob with knurls will start out at 1/2", and end up more like .512-.515 when the points are correctly formed.

Unless you do not have access to the knurled portion of the part from the feed end,,, do not plunge knurls. You adjust the offset of the tool and then feed it onto the part, and then back off the part. Your tool holder must be very rigid to do this on an engine lathe with a common tool. With an opposed tool is is simple since there are no side loads to contend with.

The correct amount of feed is 20 IPM onto the part, and then 40 IPM off the part. The part MUST be flooded with oil since you are doing a swaging operation, however the oil must also be present to convey chips and grinding swarf out of the work or the debris WILL be smashed into the work resulting in a shippy finish. Some metal removal is inevitable so it must be dealt with.

If you must plunge feed the tool then you start at one end of the area to be knurled and plunge to a depth that will yeild a good complete knurl pattern and then feed the Z axis across the area and then reverse and back out. If you need to go deeper you just give another .005-010 and feed across again.

DON'T STOP UNTIL YOU GET PERFECT POINTS. All that incomplete points means is that the diameter of the work has not matched the even division of the circumferance by the knurls. You keep going until the elevation of the points eventually does yeild the correct diameter/ circumference.

You always prep an area to be knurled with a 45* chamfer at the beginning and end of the knurl. After the knurling operation you go back and recut these chamfers since they will be altered by the knurling tool as it passes over them.

Here's some pics of parts and tools talked about. Hope this advances the art of knurling a little. :mrgreen:

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

In the above post the first pic shows a common Brown and Sharpe screw machine knurling tool. On this tool the angle of the individual knurling wheels may be changed to generate what ever shape pyramid you please. It will also generate strait knurls.(shown) All of the knurls on the parts shown were made with this tool.

The other tool is what I use when the diameter of the part exceedes 3/4". It is held in a tool holder on the cross slide, and the direction of feed is at right angles to the knurling wheels. The tool is fed onto the part repeatedly and adjusted until it generates a perfect knurl with one pass.

It can also be plunge fed however this is not recommended.

It also uses opposed knurls, however they can only generate whatever angle is formed by the knurling wheels themselves. There are litterally zillons of different knurls available. Screw machines suppliers is where you look. Also MSC is a good place.

Randy.

[seagiant]

Hi,
44, I probably saw that the early caps were made out of aluminum a while ago,but had forgot about it. You know the memory is the 2nd thing to go! I use aluminum for caps as it is not steel,easy to machine, and available!

Randy thanks for the tips on knurling! I'm such a novice and just learning,that I am happy with anything that looks presentable! I try to knurl anything I can in my projects just for the experience and practice.

I put in a WTB over at Practical Machinist for an Eagle Rock scissor type knurler as I like those the best for my 12X36 lathe. A guy told me he had the body for an eagle rock with no knurls he would let me have for $35! I got that and called Eagle Rock and ordered the original knurls and was set for about half what a new one would cost! Never found out why he had a body with no knurls???

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well then since you have the right tool,,, next tme you knurl something try just bearing down on the tool until the pyramids are perfect. Don't forget to keep it juiced up with oil the entire time to keep the chips and debris moving.

If you end up with a little garbage in the knurls you can take a wire brush to them and clean them out by going in line with the lines in both directions.

You might want to read that post again a few times so you can get the idea firmly implanted that all you have to do to produce perfect knurls is to make the diameter of the part the correct size,,,With the knurling tool. When the circumferance comes to size, they will be perfect!

Most people quit way too soon. Live dangerous, go deeper. Isn't that what she says?

Randy

[seagiant]

Well then since you have the right tool,,, next tme you knurl something try just bearing down on the tool until the pyramids are perfect. Don't forget to keep it juiced up with oil the entire time to keep the chips and debris moving.

If you end up with a little garbage in the knurls you can take a wire brush to them and clean them out by going in line with the lines in both directions.

You might want to read that post again a few times so you can get the idea firmly implanted that all you have to do to produce perfect knurls is to make the diameter of the part the correct size,,,With the knurling tool. When the circumferance comes to size, they will be perfect!

Most people quit way too soon. Live dangerous, go deeper. Isn't that what she says?

Randy

Hi Randy,
Ha! When I was involved in my different Blacksmith Groups they used to say "Get it Hot,Hit it Hard!" which is true in different things I guess! Actually I'm going to copy your little write up there and have it to review before my next knurling project! You mention some things there I didn't know! Yes,I wanted a real knurler and not a Chi-Com knock off but the Eagle Rocks are not cheap,I lucked up finding the one I did!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

Randy

[leadhead]

I have two of the E. Arthur Brown charge bars, a small pistol and a large rifle.
They were very well made and sure would miss them if I didn't have them.
Denny

[Pressman]

Seagiant, go back to the 55project site again and recheck your figures. Yours is a lot newer than you think. Primarily they are dated by the manner in which the drop tube is held in. Yours has the later screw in the front without the groove for the original snap ring.
And, while you are on that site please do not throw spitballs at the guy pictured on the front page. I think I know him and he claims to be a really great guy.
Ken

[seagiant]

Seagiant, go back to the 55project site again and recheck your figures. Yours is a lot newer than you think. Primarily they are dated by the manner in which the drop tube is held in. Yours has the later screw in the front without the groove for the original snap ring.
And, while you are on that site please do not throw spitballs at the guy pictured on the front page. I think I know him and he claims to be a really great guy.
Ken
Hi,
Well...Everything after the 1D sereis has an adjusting screw mine don't. That is 1950-51. Also the labeling looks right to me on the 1D series? Which one do you think I have????