Cleaning a Colt SAA .45 after Blackpowder

[birch]

I have been toying with the idea of loading up some BP loads for my SAA. I have what I feel are some good FFFg loads to try out (thanks everyone), but do not want to do anything that would hurt my gun. I have shot this SAA a whole bunch with many different loads, and it still looks and acts nearly new with only a little case color fading and a couple of small dings.

Everyone suggest cleaning with water and soap after a session, but I know there is no way I can run my Colt under water. Also, I have heard that the powder gets into small recesses and it must be cleaned or it will rust due to the corrosive nature of blackpowder.

So my question to all the experts is, "Should I do it?" If so, what techniques do you use to make sure a beautiful "shooter" remains beautiful. What are the areas that I would have to worry about, and do I have to clean with soap and water or are there other solvents that would do the trick. I have no problems with a gun with honest wear, in fact, in most cases I prefer a gun that has had use. On the same line, I really cant seem to fall in love with a gun that has had rust and blueing sanded off with emery cloth. I would hate to ruin one of my babies.

[Dan Cash]

Loss of finish is the price of use. If you want it to remain new, put it away in a drawer and don't shoot it. On the other hand, shoot your black powdeer, clean bore and chambers with wet patches, dry and oil. Wipe out frame with damp patches, dry and oil. Periodically, you will note a build up on goop in the hand recess. At that point, disassemble frame, flush with hot water, dry and oil. When certain all is dry, put it back together.

[DaveCampbell]

Well I have a matched pair of consecutively serial numbered SAAs in .44 WCF that I shoot with BP monthly in CAS. I use a brush to get the most of the fouling out, followed by a couple of patches soaked in clear Windex. Usually takes no more than a couple of passes to clean each revolver. I shoot relatively mild loads--30 grains of FFg behind a 212-gr. FFg--and clean up is pretty quick. YMMV.

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Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think criminals have too many guns is like castrating yourself because the neighbors have too m,any kids,

[Don McDowell]

After you get thru shooting take the cylinder out of the gun. Blow about 4-5 heavy breaths down the barrel and push a dry patch on a jag thru, then another dry patch, and then a patch damp with water, water and soap, water and..... or a commercial bp cleaner. Then a dry patch, and unless you have leading or are using some real junk for powder the barrel should be spotless. Then use a damp patch in the cylinder chambers followed by dry, repeat until clean. Wipe the face of the cylinder and the pin bushing off, oil and reassemble.

[birch]

I really don't want to have to get into the lockwork. I have taken every firearm I own down to the bare frame, but I won't touch Colt double and single action revolvers or Remington model 8's. Some things are better left to the professionals.

With that being said, is there any chance of getting BP soot in my lockwork?

[enfield]

I don't see any mention of boiling water down the barrel or through the cylinder. any reason why not ( bad for case color ?? ). I find the heat from the boiling water will help everything evaporate and leave the gun dryer.

[Dan Cash]

I don't see any mention of boiling water down the barrel or through the cylinder. any reason why not ( bad for case color ?? ). I find the heat from the boiling water will help everything evaporate and leave the gun dryer.

Won't hurt a thing if it is available. It does as you claim.

[historicfirearms]

This is what I'd do with your hog leg. Get a small rope, or maybe binder twine and tie one end around the trigger guard.. I see you are from Michigan, so next take your boat to a fairly deep lake. Tie the other end of the rope to an ore lock and head out on the water. Once you are certain the water is deep enough, toss the colt overboard. (Make sure the rope is still tied at both ends, ask me how I know). Now, as to not waste a good trip to the lake, try trolling for walleye. I find the low speed cleans the revolver better than fast speeds. Once I tried the technique on a friends jet ski, the gun didn't get very clean and I just got bored from riding in circles.

To dry the gun off after cleaning, find a secure place on the truck engine. The heat from the engine will ensure the gun will be thoroughly dried by the time you tow the boat back home. If you live on a bumpy gravel road, you may want to leave the binder twine attached to the gun and the truck until you get home. Ask me how I know.

[larryp]

Go ahead and use the hot water soaked patches in your cylinder and barrel and to wipe down the frame. Then use some ballistol on the frame to prevent rust. As for the internals use some aerosol ballistol and the straw on the can to squirt into the lock work. Ballistol is a abase PH wise and counteracts the acidity of blackpowder fouling. That way you only have to take apart the lock work once in a while to remove fouling build up.

[avogunner]

This is good gouge.....I've been wanting to shoot BP loads for my Vaquero and Uberti Henry for a while now. A couple of questions: is there any worry about BP residue in the brass frame Henry or special cleaning requirements? Secondly, how about the empties....do you guys clean them in a water/soap solution afterwards?
Thanks
Semper Fi!

[Don McDowell]

I really don't want to have to get into the lockwork. I have taken every firearm I own down to the bare frame, but I won't touch Colt double and single action revolvers or Remington model 8's. Some things are better left to the professionals.

With that being said, is there any chance of getting BP soot in my lockwork?

There's really nothing simpler in the innards than a Colt model P. But having said that , I don't think there's ever going to be enough bp residue get inside the action to warrant taking it apart and cleaning more than once a year or so, which you should be doing anyway.

[cajun shooter]

I'm going to try this again as I had about three paragraphs typed and then it went into Cyberspace.
I can't believe that some people are still using water in 2013. I will be the first to say that yes it works and has done so for hundreds of years. It does how ever have a huge drawback. If it is not all dried from the gun then you will have rust.
They have several products that do a better job and your firearms will still look good many years from now. The product of choice for me is Ballistol. It was invented by the Germans and was intended to be used on the guns, leather and even cuts and scrapes. They show a 50-50 mix on the can but it is used by most BP shooters in a 7-1 mix. This is what I choose to use. I mix 14 ounces of water in a commercial type spray bottle and then add 2 ounces of Ballistol. Shake it up until you have a complete milk colored liquid. This is referred to as Moosemilk by BP shooters.
After shooting just remove the cylinders from your revolvers and spray them down until they are dripping wet. Spray down the barrel and into the action areas and then the cylinder and it's pin. When this mix dries it leaves behind oil and not water. Oil does not cause rust but prevents it. Then just wet a patch or two and run them down your barrel until they come out clean. Wipe the outer surfaces down with a rag. Use a old toothbrush or M16 brush to clean the cylinder and any areas around the top strap.
Now here is something that has not been said by any of my fellow members. You need at least .006-.008 cylinder to barrel clearance to shoot an entire SASS match or your cylinder will bind after just a few loadings. My guns have .007 of clearence and they were set up by Long Hunter.
The next tip that was not posted is to go to your local Auto Zone or other parts store that sells Mobil One Synthetic Grease. It is red in color and you need to coat the outside of each cylinder pin from end to end before installing your cylinders. This will ensure that your revolver works with out any binding from the BP residue. The better the BP like Swiss or KIK or Goex Cartridge will help.
Now for the next step, buy some EEZOX oil. Do a search on this product and you will become a user. Our member John Boy did a very long test and the results are on the Cast Boolits forum. Use this oil as you would any other fine oil after cleaning your gun.
I have fired many nice guns with BP since 1970 and I have never had any gun rust that was fired by me and cleaned by me. It may sound a bit overwhelming at first but it is just as fast as cleaning a gun after firing that other powder. It just has different steps.
One more thing, don't believe that old wifes tale about having to run home as fast as you can so that you may clean your guns. I shoot my guns on Saturday and usually don't clean them until Tuesday of the following week. I have went as long as seven days with no problems. Take Care David

['74 sharps]

I've put many 1000's of bp rounds through my Colt SAA 7 3/4" 45. After shooting, grips off, cylinder out, hot soap and water bath, few soapy patches down bore and chambers, hot water rinse, and finish off with a Ballistol oil down. Have zero wear on the gun, and have never had a speck of rust. Anyone seeing it thinks it is new. I purchased the gun new in 1977. I do not use a holster. Shooting smokeless in a Colt SAA is not keeping in character with the gun, and black makes you realize the odg's(old dead guys) had some potent firepower, as the bp load with a 250 gr is a stiff load.

[birch]

Thanks everyone.--some good stuff. I particularly think cajun shooters and historic firearms posts are very insightful. It seems that each shooter has really examined the art of blackpowder shooting in the SAA, and each has a very unique idea of firearms cleaning etiquette.
It seems that for Historic Firearms, the actual shooting is perhaps less important than the cleaning. Even though his cleaning tactics are crude, he must nonetheless have a keen sense of thermodynamics as he has indicated on several occasions that the laws of physics were either directly or indirectly related to the demise of at least two very fine firearms. I assume that a man who is so willing to put firearms in precarious situations must also be a man of science or at the very least a mad savante who puts his fellow man above monetary gain. Although there is no doubt that the nature of solvency must have played a part in the BP soot removal in at least one firearm that did not succumb to the pressures exerted by both the boat and the natural resistance of what must be considered one of Samuel Colt's finest endeavors, it seems that the gentleman who describes himself as one who appreciates "Historic firearms" did not mention the PH balance of the lake itself. Since I am a man of Michigan, I have extensive knowledge of local lakes that were bought up, divided, and sold off in small land lots in the early to late nineteen fifties. Most of these small lots were bought up my former employees of one of the big three car companies who had alot of disposable income to do so. After buying the land, most built small one or two bedroom cottages that were suitable for weekend habitation. As such, most of the laws and permits that governed the construction of electrical, heating, and sanitation were never purchased. So, most of the "builders" purchased goods from whatever small hardware store that was in the immediate area to frame and construct their weekend homes. It seems that for most, the area of least concern was the actual sewage system. One could either spend a good sum of money on a system that would last for years, or they could take the money saved from building a sewage system, and invest in a small fishing boat, pontoon, or runabout that could be enjoyed by family members and friends alike. There is little doubt that those who enjoyed the pontoon boat in the early to mid afternoon would often take a break to eat and drink in the early evening after a hard day of leisure. There is also little doubt that they never questioned where the raw sewage went after they flushed the toilet or washed for the evening. More often than not, there was a 4-5 inch pipe that was situated not far from the same area that their newly purchased boats were tied off when not in use, that vented the raw sewage, evening scraps, and soapy water into the small lake. This was not a problem when the lakes had ten or fifteen small cottages, but when there were many cottages on a small body of water, that sewage and soap residue would sometimes alter the natural PH of the lake to the point of total fish die offs and uncontrolled algea and seaweed growth.
It is because of this fact that I have to take the advise of HistoricFirearms with a grain of salt. He did not indicate the actual PH of the lake he conducted his cleaning experiments on, so I cannot say for sure if the lake water was responcible for the decay of BP acids due to the lake turning more alkaline, or if the lake had uncontrolled seaweed growth that was partially responsible for the cleaning due to the friction encountered while trolling for walleye. In other words, "historicfirearms" might have had his SAA filled with, or might be filling us with a bunch of S***!
To everyone else who responded, thanks as usual.

[bigted]

wowww I cant believe that you wont even consider the boat treatment of your colt. my sharps loves the water in the Yukon river with all the silt and sand...really makes it shine when pulled with 30 feet of rope behind my river boat going around 35 MPH ... I just run a wire rope thru the barrel and loop it back thru itself and tie er off on the hitch ring on the transom.... the sanding takes ALL the fouling out from every nook n cranny...:kidding:[smilie=1:8-)

seriously... ballistol is the real stuff. hated the smell at first but now it makes a smile come over my face when I whiff it. that and the smelly patches are like a grand perfume to my nostrils and keeps the grandkids and wife outta my loading and gun room...

bp cleanup is just so simple...its as simple as the loading of the dreadful stuff. be vewy careful tho...this WILL get into your blood and then there can be NO turning back.

[TXGunNut]

What bigted said....the last parts anyway. Hardest part about BP shooting and cleaning is figuring out why more folks don't do it. Pretty hard to put SP in a 45 Colt case these days but I still do it for my top end hunting loads....for now.

[birch]

I'm going to give it a try. I bought the gun unfired and thought it better to shoot the heck out of it rather than having it sit in a safe. I have to drive about 45 minutes to the nearest sporting goods store that carries ballistol, but I have a feeling that it will be worth it. I might have to post a thread on tearing down a "P" in the future. Thanks again.

[TXGunNut]

My latest SA revolver acquisition was a NIB Colt as well. Guy @ the Gun Library couldn't believe I intended to shoot it, and with BP & lead at that. I doubt it'll ever see smokeless powder.

[Ramar]

birch,
I get my Ballistol at Ace when I'm there or Brownell's when ordering online.
Ramar

[Grapeshot]

I have been toying with the idea of loading up some BP loads for my SAA. I have what I feel are some good FFFg loads to try out (thanks everyone), but do not want to do anything that would hurt my gun. I have shot this SAA a whole bunch with many different loads, and it still looks and acts nearly new with only a little case color fading and a couple of small dings.

Everyone suggest cleaning with water and soap after a session, but I know there is no way I can run my Colt under water. Also, I have heard that the powder gets into small recesses and it must be cleaned or it will rust due to the corrosive nature of blackpowder.

So my question to all the experts is, "Should I do it?" If so, what techniques do you use to make sure a beautiful "shooter" remains beautiful. What are the areas that I would have to worry about, and do I have to clean with soap and water or are there other solvents that would do the trick. I have no problems with a gun with honest wear, in fact, in most cases I prefer a gun that has had use. On the same line, I really cant seem to fall in love with a gun that has had rust and blueing sanded off with emery cloth. I would hate to ruin one of my babies.

Try this: This is the method used by the US Army back in the 1800's when Black powder was the only propellant.

Remove the grips, get a large pot of water going with a rolling boil, put a squirt of dawn into it and hang your pistol from a bent clothes hanger in the water for 20 to 30 minutes. When you take it out of the pot, it will be hot enough to evaporate all the water off the metal. All the BP fouling will be gone. Then just oil it up with Balistol and you are finished.

[DCP]

Try this: This is the method used by the US Army back in the 1800's when Black powder was the only propellant.

Remove the grips, get a large pot of water going with a rolling boil, put a squirt of dawn into it and hang your pistol from a bent clothes hanger in the water for 20 to 30 minutes. When you take it out of the pot, it will be hot enough to evaporate all the water off the metal. All the BP fouling will be gone. Then just oil it up with Balistol and you are finished.

I didn't know they had Balistol and Dawn that long ago.:bigsmyl2:

[joec]

+ on Ballistol or you can use some water, Murphy's soap and a little alcohol followed by a good oil. I prefer the Ballistol however and never had a problem using it as per the instructions on it. Windex with out ammonia also works well as will dawn dish washing liquid and water. Really very easy to clean after BP and I under stand Hoppes makes a formula for back powder also though I've never seen it to try.

[bigted]

I guess maybe the cleanup should be first attempted before the actual cleaning is required...as follows;

when a cylinder full of rounds is loaded...follow the loading with a can of lard or Crisco with a dab of it smeared over the cylinder mouth of each chamber as you would in a cap n ball revolver. this action is desirable for 2 reasons , it produces an extra amount of lube into the barrel and thus makes your shooting a much more pleasurable experience and it also deposits greese on the outside of the revolver and protects it from the hard caked on fouling that makes it necessary to immerse your revolver in water completely...not that this hurts anything.

now when you return from shooting the outside is a simple matter of a wipe down and spray with a lite coat of the ballistol mix and copious amounts inside the barrel and cylinder.

just shot my Ruger Vaquero yesterday thusly and 5 patch's total cleaned it lickety split. including 2 oil patch's. took maybe 4 or 5 minutes and clean as a whistle. after cleaning I shoot rem oil into the action and over all for the final wipe down before loading and putting away.

this morning I put a clean patch thru the barrel and cylinder chambers and all that came out is oil.

now if you get the grey ... like Don mentions ... I take some turpentine soaked patch's and go to the barrel till there is no grey on the tight patch. this stuff is a miracle mixture on lead in the barrel.

[DCP]

when a cylinder full of rounds is loaded...follow the loading with a can of lard or Crisco with a dab of it smeared over the cylinder mouth of each chamber as you would in a cap n ball revolver. this action is desirable for 2 reasons , it produces an extra amount of lube into the barrel and thus makes your shooting a much more pleasurable experience and it also deposits greese on the outside of the revolver and protects it from the hard caked on fouling that makes it necessary to immerse your revolver in water completely...not that this hurts anything.

Do you do this for each round fired or just the 1st 6
Thanks


]

[bigted]

I do that with every cylinder full but...don't think ya need to. the first cylinder full gets everything nice and coated and from then on im bettin that the need to greese the mouth is just hit n miss when the action gets a bit sticky then another cylinder full of greased load' should re-lube everything nicely in theory.

I know that with a dab of Crisco in every hole that the shooting goes very well. maybe not the only way to go about it ... but...it werks fo me jess fine.

ill say that a blackpowder heated revolver is very hot and two cylinders' shot in rapid succession makes er vewy hot indeed. in fact after three cylinder's full the heat makes it hot enough that a feller could get a nice burn trying to un-load and load the pistol. makes ya wonder how the westerns worked with the pistol battles and nobody seemed to be bothered with a hot gun...HMMM ... maybe this is just those 300 round revolvers they use on TV.

[gandydancer]

I have been doing it this way for over 50 years my 1st colt SAA 4.3/4" 44/40 purchased in 1962 for $90.00 used(I still have it) nothing I can add here other than on the last rinse I use boiling hot water.let revolver set in hot water for about one min.remove and hang over bucket and spray all over inside and out with ballistol oil it emulsifies in water removing all water.let cool wipe dry.and light coat of kroil oil. until next time, GD



I've put many 1000's of bp rounds through my Colt SAA 7 3/4" 45. After shooting, grips off, cylinder out, hot soap and water bath, few soapy patches down bore and chambers, hot water rinse, and finish off with a Ballistol oil down. Have zero wear on the gun, and have never had a speck of rust. Anyone seeing it thinks it is new. I purchased the gun new in 1977. I do not use a holster. Shooting smokeless in a Colt SAA is not keeping in character with the gun, and black makes you realize the odg's(old dead guys) had some potent firepower, as the bp load with a 250 gr is a stiff load.

[Multigunner]

I had a bad experience with using Balistol by itself to clean my 1851 replica.
I cleaned it as well as possible and left a good layer of freshly sprayed balistol on all parts and bore, then had to go out of state for several months.
When I got back a hard crust had formed in the corners of each groove of the rifling. Nothing I tried would dissolve this crust and no amount of scrubbing with bronze brush or steel wool would touch it.

When a fired about two dozen rounds and cleaned with balistol mixed with hot water the crust vanished.
Due to the rough feel when trying to scrub the crust out earlier I figured the bore would be pitted under it, but there was no pitting at all.

So I figure Balistol with water works great on BP fouling but not straight balistol though it looks like it has worked. I have no idea why the crust formed the way it did.
Balistol straight or with water works fine for all Smokeless powder fouling, though there are better solvents for copper and residue from the Soviet style sealants.

PS
During the civil war they sometimes just laid a musket in a stream bed for awhile then swabbed it dry and oiled everything. Of course many a musket ended up a rusty wreck.
To polish the outside of the barrel they used campfire ashes mixed with water. I suppose the same mildly gritty paste would have worked to swab out a crusty bore. Soap back then often had ashes of some sort in the formula.

[bigted]

that's interesting about the crust. I guess I never put mine away with ballistol in it...rather I spray them down with copious amounts of either rem gun oil or outers gun oil. never had any problem with this procedure...would be interested tho in your crust issue as I ran under the impression that many retired their firearms with ballistol spray on em as well. the hot water removing the crust tho is a giveaway that it probably was indeed the ballistol that had dried and formed the crust...interesting tho that a bronze brush didn't remove it...tough stuff!