May Have Found My Shiloh

[ColColt]

I think I may have found my Shiloh #3 Sporter in 45-90. No , it ain't new but looks like it and has some fine looking wood. The only aspect I didn't like was the single trigger. Other than that, just what I was looking for with 32" Octagon barrel, globe and tang sight and pewter forend tip. More important it's the caliber I was looking for.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_02May312223_zps54d470ff.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_02May312223_zps54d470ff.jpg.html)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_01May312223_zpsc389a583.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_01May312223_zpsc389a583.jpg.html)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_05May312224_zps46512352.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_05May312224_zps46512352.jpg.html)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_06May312225_zps045e9ec9.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_06May312225_zps045e9ec9.jpg.html)

[Clay M]

I wouldn't let the single trigger slow me down . I am sure it breaks clean.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Oh WOW, that is a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!

If I didn't like the hammerless RUGER #1 so well for hunting I'd likely be looking real strong at something like that.

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love that wood and the color case harding !!!!!

I can remember years back my first elk hunt with a #1, sitting on a hill side with that rifle across my knees.

That Shiloh is a memory maker in spades.

Now just wait until you take your first cast boolit critter with it!

Using a 465gr Wide Flat Nose in the RUGER and it really puts the elk and deer down!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ColColt]

It sure got my heart pounding and testosterone going...what little of that is left. Sure wished it had double set triggers. I think a 535 Postell bullet with a healthy dose of 2Fg would bring a resurgence in the testosterone, however.:)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

ColColt,

Sounds like your maybe a bit like me. Sure wish I'd started down this cast boolit hunting road years back, but even be'in an Ol'coot, I sure am enjoying my hunting with the 45/70.

CDOC

[ColColt]

Yep, I think I made mention somewhere I had a 45-70 Rolling block years ago...still have the dies. It was a light weight carbine, Calvary model I guess it was called with a short 20 inch barrel, half round, half octagon. What a little kicker that rifle was! Chocked full of 2Fg and a 500 gr bullet, you knew when you pulled the trigger for sure!

[BruceB]

That is truly a fine-looking rifle.

In my dealings with Shiloh, I've found them to be very accomodating. Why not call them up and see how much it would cost to replace that trigger with a double-set? It may not be as bad as you suspect.

[ColColt]

Giving that some serious thought and may do just that Monday. It would be a superb rifle, not a bad price and I don't have to wait until the Rapture to get it.

[square butte]

Not too shabby a lookin Shiloh. When we lived in MT, we never missed an opportunity to stop in the Shiloh show room if we were within a hundred miles of Big Timber. They are great people and suspect they could accommodate you on the double set.

[ColColt]

Shiloh sent me a catalog today and talk about salivating!! Absolutely gorgeous rifles in that catalog along with all their options and what they look like. If anyone loves these old rifles I urge you to get one of those catalogs. You won't be the same!

Double set triggers would be nice but if the pull was about 3# I think I could live with a single trigger.

I just checked their catalog and the price for converting a single stage trigger to set triggers is $350.

[square butte]

Yes - Then you have to figure in shipping and return shipping - Not to mention all that in transit worry.

[ColColt]

That's true. That price was for the Creedmore but I assume the same for all.

[EDG]

You might ask Shiloh how easy it is to get the trigger down to 2.5 to 3 lbs.
I find pulling the heavy setting trigger and then the very light second trigger an abomination. I shoot many other rifles besides BPCRs including very light benchrest triggers. Having a mix of trigger pulls is distracting and leads to rounds being fired at the wrong time. Having mixed trigger pulls on the same rifle is about the worst of the worst for me.
I can even deal with heavy military triggers and bench rest triggers on the same trip to the range if I shoot the light trigger rifles first and work up to the heavier trigger pulls. Going from heavy back to light is always a problem.
That rifle should bring a good bit less than the usual Shiloh because of the mix of features in your favor.
45-90 is a negative compared to 45-70
Straight grip is a negative compared to pistol grip
Rifle butt compared to shotgun butt
Plain butt stock wood compared to forend (I noticed the photos accentuated the forend and did not highlight the butt)
Single trigger vs double set trigger


It sure got my heart pounding and testosterone going...what little of that is left. Sure wished it had double set triggers. I think a 535 Postell bullet with a healthy dose of 2Fg would bring a resurgence in the testosterone, however.:)

[ColColt]

I don't mind a single stage trigger as I've never had otherwise. But, I think 5#, if that was indeed what it was as I was told, is a bit much for a target rifle, IMHO. Personally, I'd rather have the 45-90 and sought it out purposely over the 45-70. Everyone and his brother has one of those in some configuration and I still have the RCBS dies for it I had years ago. I like the 45-90 better and think it should have a better trajectory than the 45-70. Straight grips appeal to me more than pistol grips on a rifle like this. A bolt action Winchester/Remington should have a pistol grip but to me a Sharps should have a straight one. Just personal preferences

As for the stock, I think the stock looks pretty good. Usually you pay for fancy wood in the stock only and if you want stock and forend that's extra again. I don't think you can get just a fancy forend only but you can the stock. I didn't show all the pics that were available of the stock. This is another shot of the stock.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/3431638_Sharps45-90_05_zps6411975f.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/3431638_Sharps45-90_05_zps6411975f.jpg.html)

[BruceB]

Yeeeouch! $350 to change to a set trigger? That's a surprise. At that rate, I'd be inclined to just learn to live with the original set-up.

Unlike some other opinions, I have no trouble working with a wide variety of triggers, including double- and single-set rifles of a variety of types and vintages.

Seems like I have a "mental gear shift" which allows me to use many types of systems without problems, such as shifting from single-action to double-action revolvers and semi-autos, left-hand or right-hand bolts,.... you name it. Maybe that's what comes with LIVING with a wide variety of firearms for fifty years or so???

[ColColt]

I think the double set triggers are a mental thing. If a single stage trigger was light enough for target shooting and to me that's 3# or under, I wouldn't have a problem with one trigger. I ma like it better for all I know as a too light trigger bothers me. I've handled some new S&W revolvers that scared me the trigger was so light.

I wouldn't spend $5K for a rifle...any kind of rifle. I've owned too many cars in the past less than that. I could afford it or any other rifle Shiloh makes but can't see putting that much money in a rifle. This one I've ran across looks good enough to me, right caliber for me. I only plan on maybe a sight change and that's no big deal. I'm giving serious thought to buying it come Monday and can get in touch with the folks.

[Clay M]

I feel certain it could be made into a 3# trigger by a good gunsmith. The only thing I don't personally like about the gun is the butt plate.

[montana_charlie]

Does that Shiloh have a 'B' in the serial number?
CM

[ColColt]

I don't know, Charlie. I don't have it yet and there's no indication of a serial number in any of the pics. Where would it be located?

OK-I found what I think is a serial number but hard to read. It looks like either 87533 or B7533...something close to that.

[EDG]

I listed the things that would be a negative to the pool of average buyers.
Since you are not the average buyer some of those things are a plus for you since they tend to depress the price if you are a good negotiator.
The butt of that rifle is really nice. Many competition shooters including myself much prefer the pistol grip and shotgun butt. The pistol grip helps control recoil a little better and looks better with the shotgun butt.
I think you will find that rifle butt plate to be unduly as in VERY punishing. Recoil is not too bad in these rifles with a flat butt. With the curved but the top and bottom edges really hurt without any padding.
I tend to relax during my shooting and every once in a while let a rifle get a little bit of a run at me. The cuved butt makes that unpleasant. If you go with that butt type get some sort of Past pad.

[ColColt]

I've wondered about the recoil of this caliber. I think weight has a lot to do with it and it's supposedly weighs 11 pounds and 14 oz. I don't have the "meat" on my shoulders I had ten years ago so am a bit concerned about that. That butt style is called the military butt plate.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, that butt plate is a killer.

A friend had a Marlin Cowboy 45/70 that he said hurt him.. I told him to get rid of that hoky butt plate. He sold it.

Sorry, no intention to offend here, but I am a user and not a collector so something must be, for me, usable or it goes down the road.

First thing that happened with my RUGER #1 - 45/70 was the factory butt came off, the stock was cut to the needed length and a new, thick/soft recoil pad went on.

I also like the pistol grips, but on that rifle I could live with the strieght grip if it had a good recoil pad put in place. Yes I sure could!!!!!

Yes sir, that do be one very fine looking rifle, but that butt plate would go, ASAP.

The trigger, well if that rifle is of the quality I think it is, the trigger can be fixed WITHOUT the double set trigger replacement. And yes, I like single triggers!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ColColt]

Well, Crusty-I ain't into mutilating such a fine rifle so, I'd live with it. At 11 pounds, 14 oz I think the weight would aid in the recoil. If it still bothered me I'd just bite my arm hard and then fire. The bite would be worse than the bark.:) Second thought, with plastic teeth I may not be able to bite too hard.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

:D ;-) :grin: [smilie=1: -------- Good one ColColt.

However, ain't talking about "mulitating", just redecorating! 8-)

CDOC

[ColColt]

If I was doing it, it would be mutilating. Me with a saw is like Jack the Ripper with a knife.

[montana_charlie]

Where would it be located?
I believe it is on the tang.

OK-I found what I think is a serial number but hard to read. It looks like either 87533 or B7533...something close to that.
A 'B' indicates it was built since the Bryants took over production. That would mean the rifle is chambered without the very long freebore found in some of the earlier rifles.

CM

[ColColt]

So, which of those numbers look like a more feasible serial number?

[Clay M]

I have pre Bryant rifles without freebore.I believe the last few years Wolf owned the outfit he did not put freebore in the guns.Any of the 80's made guns probably do have the freebore.

[ColColt]

Well, it's a done deal. I called Cabelas and gave them my CC number and it is now officially mine. He told me the rifle came with the original box and papers, bunches of brass, dies and Postell bullets and bullet/cartridge holders. Not a bad deal for $2500. That's what I talked them down to.

Got what I wanted and didn't have to wait a decade to get it.:)

[Clay M]

I am sure you will like it.The .45/90 is a great choice.I have the .45/70's and a .50/90

[ColColt]

50-90...now, there's a shoulder wrecker! I considered that but in retrospect, I regained my senses.

[Clay M]

Actually mine has the slow twist so the recoil is not a problem. I didn't want to shoot a 700 grain bullet anyway. The 500's are very accurate in my rifle.

[smoked turkey]

That is one beautiful rifle. I know you will enjoy it greatly. I should be shopping more than I am for one. My time is coming. Your price seems very reasonable to me for what it is. I would have done it too had I been in your shoes. Let us know how the 45-90 works out for you. I think getting all the components with it was a big score in itself.

[ColColt]

From the photos of the goodies that are included the bullets look like the 535 gr Postell and are already lubed with what could be, from the color, SPG lube. Moreover, the 100 or so cases are primed so, I don't have to look and wait and hope for large rifle primers for awhile.

This is a pic of the goodies.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/3431638_Sharps45-90_14_zps1eb8f647.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/3431638_Sharps45-90_14_zps1eb8f647.jpg.html)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/a_zpsddfb9ec1.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/a_zpsddfb9ec1.jpg.html)

[Don McDowell]

That military butt is comfortable to shoot from sitting and offhand position. It is a bit of a pain from prone, unless you use something like the Shooters friend recoil slipon recoil pad.
The bullets in the bag look to be lubed with Bullshops Nasa, rather than spg.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bryan is their last name not Bryant. B in front first 9999 rifles B at rear next 9999 rifles. That Rifle Butt will be killer in a 12# 45-90. The reason for the cost is not just a trigger plate replacement Stock has to be pulled and reinleted for the Double sets. Not a small amount of work.

Kenny W.
The Lunger

[ColColt]

Not having the rifle yet I don't know how the trigger pull will be. If not satisfactory, and I can't image Shiloh letting a rifle go out that wasn't, but and if it's not, I'll call/write them about a possible fix. If the recoil is a bit too much, I'll just get a Past bag. For sure it can't be worse than that 375 Weatherby with 300 gr boolits I shot...once.

[bigted]

congrats on your new arrival. you WILL be tickled with the new family member im sure.

[ironhead7544]

I wouldnt worry about the trigger. That can be adjusted for less than $350.00. Regarding recoil, you can work out a good light practice load. Those 535 gr bullets with a full load of black will be a bit uncomfortable. A lighter bullet will help.

loaddata.com has data for this round.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ya, but how long is it going to take for ColColt's head to come back to normal size once he has that beautiful rifle in hand?

It may be weeks before the swelling goes down enough for him to get a good cheek weld on that stock. ;-) :kidding:

Likely he should forward it on to me to feed and care for until he heals!

Always willing to step up when a fellow shooter is hurt'in! 8-)

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ColColt]

Crusty-You're a jewel for offering to care for that rifle. I'm humbled by your good nature and intents from the heart. Before now, I felt impoverished not knowing such a marvelous person but, now I feel rich as Solomon and forever in your debt.

Maybe I can super glue a piece of smooth walnut to the side of that stock to simulate a cheek piece...yeah, that's the ticket.;)

ironhead7544-Those guys want $30/year to give you the powder charge used with a given boolit!


congrats on your new arrival. you WILL be tickled with the new family member im sure.

I'm already ecstatic! I'm sure it will cause a stir at the LGS and handled a good bit before I get there knowing those guys.

[oldred]

ironhead7544-Those guys want $30/year to give you the powder charge used with a given boolit


I shoot 500 grain Lees in my 45/90 and have gotten excellent results from both Varget and H4895, after an E-Mail conversation with the folks at Accurate I tried AA4064 at their suggestion and it works great also, all these powders fill the case nicely.

[ColColt]

You shoot smokeless in those big cases? I thought the drop dead caliber for smokeless was the 45-70...seems you'd need too much smokeless in the larger 45-90 case.

I do wish powder manufacturers would stop using each others designation for powder. We had IMR 4064, H4064 and now AA4064.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Nice guy back again 8-)8-)

Seems the swelled head has not adversely affected your thought process at this point. That probably comes later --------------- [smilie=1:

I'd agree with your comment about using the same name/numbers with just the change of some letters for powders. There must be a better way!

CDOC

[ColColt]

I'm sure when I get the call from the LGS that it's here and I can come pick it up that I'll be grinnin' like a mule eatin' briars. I'll probably hold it a spell, rub it's stock and forend, caress the breech block and stroke the barrel a little...I think I need a cigarette.:)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Shameful very shameful, in fact down right disgusting! ;-)

CDOC

[ColColt]

All an old timer can do is dream. I'm hoping I can get an instruction manual of some sort from Shiloh as I don't know how to properly take care of such a different rifle such as taking out the breech block to clean and oil, etc. I did order a carbon fiber cleaning rod. I sure don't want to mess up the rifling in this fine rifle.

[oldred]

You shoot smokeless in those big cases?


Sure I do and so do lots of other folks, 5744 seems to be the most popular but I have come to like the AA4064 a lot. As far as smokeless in that case vs the 45/70 it would seem the 45-90 could be an even better choice since you can actually get more velocity at the same pressures or opt for 45/70 speeds at lower pressures, in fact according to Cartridges Of The World the '90 was factory loaded with smokeless from 1895 until the round was dropped from production in 1936. The 45-90 is an excellent case for those big heavy projectiles and I think it would be around now instead of the 45/70 if the 45/70 had not been so popular back in the day due to it being the military choice at the time. Since you seemed to be looking for loading data I just assumed you were interested in smokeless and for sure the rifle you are buying would have no more trouble handling 45-90 smokeless loads than it would with 45/70 smokeless at the same pressures, higher velocity than the shorter 45/70 at the same pressures is easy to do. As far as case fill one of the Varget loads I use with the 405 gr Remington jacketed (when I bother to shoot the silly things) almost touches the base of the bullet and still yields pressures around 25,000 CUP according to Hodgdon.

[ironhead7544]

Crusty-You're a jewel for offering to care for that rifle. I'm humbled by your good nature and intents from the heart. Before now, I felt impoverished not knowing such a marvelous person but, now I feel rich as Solomon and forever in your debt.

Maybe I can super glue a piece of smooth walnut to the side of that stock to simulate a cheek piece...yeah, that's the ticket.;)

ironhead7544-Those guys want $30/year to give you the powder charge used with a given boolit!



I'm already ecstatic! I'm sure it will cause a stir at the LGS and handled a good bit before I get there knowing those guys.

It is worth it. You can print out a whole lot of good info in a year. Most manuals are in there. Or get a flash drive.

[mazo kid]

So far, I've only shot 405 gr. boolits in my 45-90 and the recoil is nothing in the ~14 pound rifle. I do have heavier (and lighter) boolits cast up but not loaded. As far as your single trigger....wait to see just what it is before worrying too much. If too heavy, it can be worked over. Re: the double trigger set-up, not only does the lower tang need to be inlet, the cost of the triggers and also a new tumbler with fly will need to be installed. If you're looking at 3-4 hours labor plus parts, it's easy to see how the cost mounts up.

[ColColt]

From what I was told this rifle weighs 11 pounds 14 ounces...may as well say 12 pounds. From all indications, this caliber likes the heavier 500-550 gr bullets. I'm not too concerned about the trigger. I haven't even seen the rifle yet. Perhaps the one who told me about the 5# pull was guessing for all I know. I seriously doubt he actually took a scale and measured it.

[cajun shooter]

We have a few members that seem to think it is better to point out all the bad things about the new family treasure that your neighbor has purchased instead of telling them how happy you are for them.
The Sharps rifle to any pure Black Powder rifle shooter is the same as being able to own the best in any type of mechanical devise. It is a true work of art.
I would like to tell you Col Colt that I'm very happy that you were able to bring this fine rifle into your family. Shoot it and enjoy it and don't worry about what others say is wrong with it.
I will never be able to enjoy such a thing but I am lucky enough to have two friends who have several Shilohs between them and I am able to fire one from time to time.
The picture you posted with all the extras appear to be the Sagebrush bullets in the Styrofoam cartons as that is the way Harlan packs them. Look him up as he is a fine man to deal with. Take Care David

[ColColt]

cajun-thank you sir. I wanted one of these way back in my mid 20's when I first saw one "in person" at the 1974 NRA Convention in Atlanta. However, I was a late starter to college and was doing that and working in a print shop part time so some things were just out of reach then. Many moons later, being retired and alone, save my dog, I can afford it now...40 years later!!

I had forgotten I had another thread going about this rifle. I guess that comes with age.:) At any rate, rather than post pics here I posted some at the other thread....I picked it up the other day!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201941-BCRC-Reloading/page4

Those bullets appear to be from Buffalo Arms...at least that's what's on the end of the box. It says 458" dia. 535 gr #457132. I'm anxious to get the Lyman/Postell mold I ordered from Steve Brooks so I can start casting. I was fortunate enough to have received not only the latest catalog from Shiloh but also their instruction/owners manual and disassembly instructions.

[oldred]

We have a few members that seem to think it is better to point out all the bad things about the new family treasure that your neighbor has purchased instead of telling them how happy you are for them.


Someone said something bad about that rifle?????

I must have missed that, the only thing I see wrong with it is it's not mine!:bigsmyl2:

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I'm with you Oldred Thought maybe I just had rose colored glasses.

Seems like folk have thrown in suggestions as to one thing or another, but they were nothing different then I would do if I held the rifle in my own hands, well hand likely as with the other I'd be busy keeping the slobber under control, while having an up close and personal session with colcolt.

Better put the coffee pot on, as this may take awhile!

Probably not my choice for hunting as I like the hammerless for that situation, but I'd surely and gladly welcome a Sharps or Low Wall or High Wall to my rifle rack. Yesssss sir I sure would.

I might even adjust to the external hammer if I had reason to.

And ----------- boy do I ever think the chance to shoot some Black Powder Silly Wet would be a great reason to attempt an adjustment.

Heres to ya colcolt! Enjoy!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ColColt]

It's been Christmas in June here today. I have two rifles going. Several days back I got the Sharps, ordered all the paraphernalia I could while waiting and some afterwards such as three different kinds of BP, Goex, KIK and Swiss, neck size die, compression die drop tube, etc.

Also, I picked up a Winchester Legendary Frontiersman(38-55) just yesterday. Moreover I had a heck of a time finding the powder I wanted for it but finally found a place by chance and got two pounds of H4831 for it. I had 150 pieces of brass but no primers. Luckily I found three hundred CCI 200 primers amongst a stash of goodies I had so, I'll use them until the madness goes by and can order fresh primers yet once again.

So, today I got the smokeless and black powder today, shell holders, Pact sissy bag for the shoulder, couple of books by Mike Venturo and a few other goodies. Now, all that's left is a still fuzzy notion about powder/wad compression and I'll be set. I have the Walter's Wads in .030". I'm sure those three powders will fill the case differently and require experimentation as to compression. I've read many places where the Swiss takes very little to none so, I'll keep that in mind.