Legal question

[starmac]

I have heard that any gunsmith that keeps a customers firearm in his shop, has to be an ffl holder. I haven't done the investigating on this myself.
My son does a lot of powder coating on his time off, and is thinking about expanding into duracoating for firearms. If he does, will he have to get a ffl??

[Jeff Michel]

He may want to contact his local ATFE office for specifics. If you keep a firearm for over twenty four hours, you are required to log in the gun in the firearm repair log. I doubt you can do much without biting the bullet and applying for a license. The ATF has really beefed up the record review process. It was over twenty years before they got around to check my records ( all I did was repair work, no sales.) Now every year, they show up on my doorstep for a review, generally takes a couple hours and is extremely annoying. If he does go ahead with this, make sure his records are as meticulous as possible. A buddy of mine runs the local gunshop and up till about five years kept some pretty poor records (inaccurate, incomplete, misplaced 4473's) they had a blast with him, stayed a week and put him through hell. Should see his records now, there inspirational to say the least.

[starmac]

He will have to check it all out, it will kinda suck to have to be an ffl, just to coat them.

[DCM]

He will have to check it all out, it will kinda suck to have to be an ffl, just to coat them.

True but their are advantages to having the license too. It can make out of state transfers much easier for shipping and the actual transfer.
If he does get an FFL tell him to keep impecable records as that is the #1 problem area with BATFE when they do audits.
A disposition book from Brownells is Almost mandatory and properly filled in will save tons of problems.
My FFL holder just had a big to do with them about this.

[Artful]

if its a "while u wait" service, no FFL required, unless you're running a "real" business rather than an "occasional" one, in which case an FFL is needed (... you might want a definitive answer from someone with the knowledge and authority to give it in writing).
accordingly, if you will have firearms left in your possession or shipped to you, get an FFL. (no doubt about this one)


BATF ruling (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-1.pdf) regarding painting, engraving, etc.

u.s. Departmenot of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Fireanns and Explosives
Office of the Director
Washington. DC 20226
18 U.S.C. 921(a): DEFINITIONS
18 U.S.C. 922(a)(I)(A): LICENSES REQUIRED
18 U.S.C. 923(a): LICENSES REQUIRED
27 CFR 478.11: DEFINITIONS
27 CFR 478.41(a): LICENSES REQUIRED
Any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or changes
a firearm's appearance, by camouflaging a firearm by painting, dipping, or applying tape,
or by engraving the external surface of a firearm, does not need to be licensed as a
manufacturer under the Gun Control Act. Any person who is licensed as a
dealer/gzlnsmith, and who camouflages or engraves firearms as described in this ruling
does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act. Any person
who is engaged in the business of camouflaging or engraving firearms as described in this
ruling must be licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, under the Gun Control
Act.

ATF Rut. 2009-1
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (A TF) has received inquiries
from Federally licensed manufacturers and dealers/gunsmiths seeking clarification as to
whether camouflaging firearms, or cutting designs into firearms by engraving, constitute
manufacturing activities that require a manufacturer's license.

Camouflaging refers to a patterned treatment using a variety of different colors that enables
a firearm to blend into a particular outdoor environment. This typically involves painting,
dipping, or applying a tape over the firearm's wood and/or metal parts.

Engraving firearms is a process in which a decorative pattern is placed on the external
metal of a firearm primarily for ornamental purposes. The engraving can be cut by hand or
machine, or pressed into the metal. There are other engraving techniques that cut designs
into firearms, such as checkering or scalloping.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), Title 18, United States Code (V.S.C.), Chapter 44,
provides, in part, that no person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing,
or dealing in firearms until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so
from the Attorney General. A "firearm" is defined by 18 V.S.C. 92 I (a)(3) to include any
weapon ~:including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted
-2-
to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, and the frame or receiver of any such
weapon. The term "manufacturer" is defined by 18 V.S.C. 921(a)(IO) and 27 CFR 478.11
as any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for
purposes of sale or distribution. The term "dealer," which includes a gunsmith, is defined
by 18 V.S.C. 921(a)(II) and 27 CFR 478.11 to include any person engaged in the business
of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, or repairing firearms or making or fitting special
barrels, ~;tocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms.

In Revenue Ruling 55-342, ATF's predecessor agency interpreted the meaning of the terms
"manufacturer" and "dealer" for the purpose of firearms licensing under the Federal
Firearms Act, the precursor statute to the GCA. It was determined that a licensed dealer
could assemble firearms from component parts on an individual basis, but could not
engage in the business of assembling firearms from component parts in quantity lots for
purposes of sale or distribution without a manufacturer's license. Since then, ATF has
similarly and consistently interpreted the term "manufacturer" under the GCA to mean any
person who engages in the business of making firearms, by casting, assembly, alteration, or
otherwise, for the purpose of sale or distribution.

Performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging, that primarily adds to or
changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Unlike
manufacturing processes that primarily enhance a firearm's durability, camouflaging is
primarily cosmetic. Likewise, external engravings are cosmetic in nature and primarily
affect only the appearance of a firearm.

Held, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or
changes a firearm's appearance by camouflaging the firearm by painting, dipping, or
applying tape does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Held further, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to
or changes a firearm's appearance by engraving the external surface of the firearm does not
need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.


Held further, any person who is licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, and
who camouflages or engraves fireanns as described in this ruling does not need to be
licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.

Held further, any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging or
engraving firearms as described in this ruling must be licensed as a dealer, which includes
a gunsmith, under the Gun Control Act.

Want to know when and how this became an issue....
http://gothamist.com/2008/03/21/custom_bloomber.php
- from March 2008 -
Mayor Bloomberg's fight against the gun industry has now crossed over into the world of custom weaponry.
The Daily News points out that a Wisconsin company is touting a new line of paints, "The Bloomberg Collection."

Lauer Custom Weaponry offers DuraCoat Firearm Finishes, which are "extremely easy" for an "average gun owner" to apply (Lauer also offers DuraCoat workshops). There's the "Bloomberg Collection EZ Camo Kit," where you can pimp your weapon with the names of the boroughs on brick, graffiti-style. And there's also the "Bloomberg Collection CamoPak" with " 1 oz. Manhattan Red, 1 oz. Bronx Rose, 1 oz. Brooklyn Blue, 1 oz. Queens Green, 1 oz. Staten Island Orange" paints.

Guess who pressured ATF into requiring FFL for people who did custom paint on firearms...

[Wayne Smith]

As I read that he will need a license as a gunsmith if he engages in this business. If he receives guns in the mail I would guess that pretty much defines a business.

[John 242]

I am offering this up as how I understand the requirements. I am not giving legal advise, but I am in good faith giving you the best information I can.

If you engage in the "business" of "gunsmithing", then you need an FFL.
That's a vague answer, but that's the answer you will likely get from the ATF. (At least that's the answer I received)
Doing repairs for friends doesn't count, unless you engage in more than occasional work.

A "while you wait service", as mentioned, might not require an FFL since the firearm isn't leaving the possession of the owner. However, this is a gray area that I would be uncomfortable paying around in. Again, an occasional service is one thing, but if you are engaging in the business of gunsmithing (on firearms), you would be wise to get the FFL. Playing games with the ATF is a bad idea. A welding shop doing a occasional quick repair on a receiver is an example where 'while you wait' would make sense, but I'm not the ATF. Call your local agent and verify.


I have heard that any gunsmith that keeps a customers firearm in his shop, has to be an ffl holder.
Some 'gunsmiths' without an FFL think that as long as they don't hold onto the firearm over night, they're legal. According to what I understand, that's wrong. (See below Q&A from the ATF). Of course, this all hinges on the definition of "business". If they want to play semantics games with the ATF, have fun.
I think some people get confused by the reporting requirements for the A&D book. A FFL holder does not have to record the firearm in the A&D book if he can return the firearm to the owner on the same business day. In other words, if I can fix the gun today, I don't have to put it in the book.
This applies to FFL holders, not unlicensed persons.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#license-activities
Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?
Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[27 CFR 478.11]

Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair?
If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record.

When I looked into whether I needed an FFL, the words "business" was emphasized to me over and over again. Since I intend to make money doing gunsmithing repairs and service, getting an FFL was a 'no-brainer'.