Need some advise on sizing 45-70 bullets.

[cruisor]

Hello,

I just cast some 45-70 bullets in a Lyman mold. They will be used in a Winchester (Miroku) 1885 High Wall Limited rifle. The bullets were cast from lead pipe, measured .460 out of the mold and weighed 350 or so grns.

The problem is I cannot get them to size in my Lyman 45 sizer/luber. I'm using a .458 die. I can get them started but only the first land of the bullet then I'm afraid to pull any harder on the handle for fear of breaking it. I'm putting a pretty fair amount of push on it and it will not go any further.

Is this bullet just to fat to make it through this sizer?

Isn't .458 an ideal starting point for a modern single shot 45-70 rifle?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

I have myself on the waiting list for a new Ballisti Cast Sizer and will appreciate the stoutness of this machine when it arrives.

Regards,

Lee

[Janoosh]

Welcome. First, will this Boolit size, .458, fit your bore correctly? According to your bore slug measurments? Second, activate your lube sizer, without a Boolit inserted, to make sure the piston is not bound. I routinely bump up Boolits to a larger size on my Lyman sizer. As my Uncle said "the cheapest thing you can do is look".

[country gent]

Also measure a few bullets to see if they are round and not oval. as stated above besure die and ludrisizer is working properly and adjustments are correct. A soft lead bullet is going to be "stickier" tha one with tin and or antimony.

[runfiverun]

.002 sizing should be a cake walk.
i'd be inclined to shoot the 460 size rather than 458 anyway.

[Larry Gibson]

If the H&I die have set a while the lube in it may have hardened and the I die is stuck? If you are sure the I die stop is down and out of the way set a jacketed bullet of smaller diameter on the I die and see if that makes it go down. If not remove the H&I from the 450 and soak in bore cleaning solvent over night and try to push the I die through with a wood dowel or brass punch. If it's still stuck put the H die in a padded vise and tap on the I die with a brass puch to breack loose. If that works clean it real well and try again in the 450.

One other thing to check is to make sure when the sizing stops has the bullet nose punch come against the H die?

Larry Gibson

[mroliver77]

I shoot .460 in both of my 45-70's both with modern chamber/barrels. Lead pipe is "pure" lead. These boolits will be very soft! Might be ok for very light loads but you need some tin.
J

[cajun shooter]

There is information missing from your OP. Have you tried to lube the bullet by hand before running it through the sizer? A pre-lube is what I'm talking about. It should not bind at all when you are trying to only size .002 As has been posted by my fellow members the .460 is the common size that is used by most 45-70 shooters who have guns that slug out at .458
I would take a hard look at the sizer as being the problem. Take out your sizing die and top punch and make sure they are what they say they are.
This is not a easy thing to answer as it is like trying to find out why a car will not start and the car is 50 miles away. It all comes down to you taking each step and piece and giving it the once over. Make sure that your sizer is set up correctly. Later David

[45-70 Chevroner]

The old 45 sizer has a weak point, "the handle". I'm with the rest of the guys, check out the sizing die then go from there.

[mroliver77]

Also the old Lyman(IDEAL)dies were not tapered but had a "step" I guess. They suck!(IMHO) They can be upgraded to a tapered lead.
J

[Janoosh]

+1 on the tapered leade. I have a number of older dies that needed to be beveled to get the Boolit to enter easier.

[41 mag fan]

One thing to ask on this..is this a new .458 die?
Reason for asking, is IIRC, 2 yrs ago I bought a 501 H&I die for my 500.
My casts were 503's as dropped. Sized 1 and it stuck in the die. Melted it out, sized another and it stuck.
Come to find out my 501 was really like a 495ish.
I had to send it back to lyman for a replacement.

[MtGun44]

"Isn't .458 an ideal starting point for a modern single shot 45-70 rifle?"

Yikes. Not likely. Rule of thumb is boolit should be larger than groove diam, usually about
.002 larger. Plus you have no idea what your groove diam is so, no way (yet) to
say what the ideal diam should be. Some guns are happy with .459, others have to
have .460 to do their best work. A VERY common diam for a .308 groove diam barrel is
.311 boolit, for instance.

General rule of thumb: Too big is either OK or good, too small is always bad.

Bill

[cruisor]

I'd like to thank all of you for your ideas and thoughts. I was stuck out of town on business and not able to respond to you. All the work is done now so back to the good things in life.

I went ahead and managed to slug the barrel and measured with a micrometer. As cast the bullet measured .4625 and slugged .4577. The sizing die measured .457 with a dial micrometer.

So based on this the ideal bullet diameter should be .4577 or .458.

So is the bullet as measured at .4625 safe to shoot to see if it will work in my rifle?

To be sure I understand the term "groove diameter" is the bore diameter?

To add a bit more confusion to this is it okay to shoot bullets made of linotype or ww acceptable in my rifle. I'm guessing that the type of powder and end use ie target or hunting will be the determining factor here.

Again thanks to all of you who have helped me get a grasp on this new venture of mine. I'm finding that this single shot rifle shooting more intriguing than just plain ole reloading. Many new concepts to consider and that's just up my alley.

Lee

[runfiverun]

bore diameter is the minor measurement [top of the lands]
and groove diameter is the major or full diameter.

the best way to find out if the 462 size will shoot is to make a dummy round and chamber it.
if it chambers it will shoot.
you are going to work a load up with whatever components you have on hand anyway, so you will be starting from scratch no matter what diameter you use.

[cruisor]

Okay off I go to see if it will fit. If it fit's I'll load up some mild loads to start with. Will post results this week to share my findings.

Lee

[9.3X62AL]

I predicate rifle boolit sizing upon THROAT dimensions. In both my Ruger #1 and Marlin 95, the throats are right at .459". I use a Lyman .459" H&I die in a 4500 machine, and in 92/6/2 alloy the boolits size at .4595" or thereabouts. Different alloys can result in differing final diameters, the general rule being the harder--the wider. We're talking "tenths" here, but they do differ.

Something isn't right with your sizing machine. Or die. Is it lube-charged and ready to process boolits? Does that lube require heat to run easily? Bigger boolits do require a bit more shove than do smaller-caliber castings, but .002"-.003" shouldn't be that difficult. One thing I will do with Lyman #462560, which drops @ almost .463" in 92/6/2.......I size/lube and set the gas check in a .461" die, then run the lot through my .459" die to finish sizing. Less human effort and machinery strain, but a bit more time.

FWIW.....I've fired #462560 at both .459" and .461" diameters through the #1. It is a rifle of known decent accuracy with a wide range of bullets/boolits. The two diameters didn't make a bit of difference in terms of downrange accuracy to 300 yards, sample size of 30 rounds each at 100/200/300 yards over 3 range days. In this rifle, once you've fit boolits to the throat--making them bigger pays no dividend, not does it cost you accuracy. Ambiguity reigns supreme--never say "never", never say "always" in this game.

[waco]

Is it s new sizer die? Is there no lube in it? If not, this could be the problem. Pump of the lube to get some in the die. This might help.

[NoZombies]

Also check the sizer stop adjustment. I need a very different setting for 500 grain .45/70 bullets, and 65 grain .32 ACP bullets.

[cruisor]

Okay I went out to give this another try. I think there is something is to lubrication issue. on the I disassembled the die cleaned it and then rubbed lube on the bullet. This resolved this problem. I still had to be cautious and would take the bullet in half way then out and then finish it up. Going to try to attach a picture to see what you think. It measures .458 and I left the first groove empty of lube and will crimp there.7308173082