.490 Round Ball for 45 70?

[Spokerider]

I know some of you have used a .490 RB, sized it to .459 and shot it in the 45 70.
I have some .490 round balls that I cast from WW many years ago. I tried sizing them in a Lee sizer die. I had to hammer the ball into the sizer die with my 16oz hammer, just to get it started, and then hammer on the steel push pin to drive it through the die. Good grief, it was a lot of hammering! Maybe the 20year old balls were as hard as rock?.....sure felt like it.

Pure lead would go through easier, even then trying to size them on the RCBS luber sizer from .490 down to .459 seems like a long shot.

How are you guys tackling this?

[Janoosh]

I would re-melt and cut 50/50 with pure lead and re-cast. If that is not the option then lube balls and sizer. Lube internals of push thru sizer. Make sure there is a bevel of some sort to allow ball to be started. Try a countersink. What else can you possibly do? Hope this helps...

[Spokerider]

dunno........
I read that others are using a .490 ball for the 45 70, but nobody else has mentioned having to use a hammer to drive the balls through a sizer.

[Jim]

Pushing a .490 RB through a .458 sizing die is over .030 interference fit. Lube the balls and the die and use a single stage press. The drive piston is not designed to be beat on with a hammer anymore than screw drivers are designed to be used as chisels.

The RBs will come out sized with a flat bottom. Put the flat bottom in the case, push it in 'till the ogive of the top comes flush with the case mouth and give it a LIGHT crimp. You're done.

[Spokerider]

I`m not sure the Dillon 550 is up to the task. I tried it with the WW balls I had on hand, and chose to abort the sizing. I was putting way more pressure on the handle than what I felt comfortable doing.

I`ll look into getting a collar button mold made by Tom.

[725]

I use .457 RB's.

[longbow]

I got Tom to scale a .45 cal. TC lightweight 165 gr. to .44 and it is a great little boolit ~ great mould too.

You could get the same in 0.460" to suit your .45-70:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-165C-D.png

In fact Tom has quite a number of lightweight boolit moulds that would suit your needs.

Longbow

[Indio]

PM Mihec about his collar button mold for the 45-70... I recently bought one from this overrun stock (he still had a couple left).. I have cast some up but not tried them yet... ~145grn @.460 dia

72285

[rintinglen]

I used two pieces of 1/2 inch aluminum plate to roll my .490 balls down to a more manageable size. place a ball on the bottom plate, cover it with the top plate and roll it back and forth, starting with moderate force, and increasing your weight on the plate as you go. I was using commercial soft lead balls and they squashed down pretty quickly. I did about 50 in an hour or so, they then went through a .459 sizer easily. Combination reloading technique and upper body work out.

[Spokerider]

I got Tom to scale a .45 cal. TC lightweight 165 gr. to .44 and it is a great little boolit ~ great mould too.

You could get the same in 0.460" to suit your .45-70:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-165C-D.png





In fact Tom has quite a number of lightweight boolit moulds that would suit your needs.

Longbow


I was looking at that mold in .460
What weight does it drop for you?

[Spokerider]

PM Mihec about his collar button mold for the 45-70... I recently bought one from this overrun stock (he still had a couple left).. I have cast some up but not tried them yet... ~145grn @.460 dia

72285

Nice! Do they drop from the mold easy or is some determined tapping required?

[Spokerider]

I used two pieces of 1/2 inch aluminum plate to roll my .490 balls down to a more manageable size. place a ball on the bottom plate, cover it with the top plate and roll it back and forth, starting with moderate force, and increasing your weight on the plate as you go. I was using commercial soft lead balls and they squashed down pretty quickly. I did about 50 in an hour or so, they then went through a .459 sizer easily. Combination reloading technique and upper body work out.

That's how I make slugs to do bore slugging, lol. Not sure I want to do 100 of those however.........

[btroj]

I used .457 RB in mine. No sizing, just tumble in LLA. About 10 gr of Unique and 3 RB is quite fun.

I have a collar button mould. Shoots well but holy cow does it use a ton of lube!

[45 2.1]

Simply put your hard 0.490" round balls in a oven proof container, place in a 435 degree oven for about an hour, turn off oven and let them cool in the oven. They will be soft for a few days (size them in the first couple of days), then return to the alloys air cooled hardness in a couple of weeks.

[45 2.1]

Nice! Do they drop from the mold easy or is some determined tapping required?

They come out pretty easily. Use a cheap viscous lube......... they're a hoot with BP.

[Indio]

Nice! Do they drop from the mold easy or is some determined tapping required?

They drop easy

[frnkeore]

I've had no problem sizing .490's to .452, in a push threw type die, for my 1858, cap & ball, but mine are straight lead. I make my own dies with a long taper. A STP or old RCBS type lube will help with your harder alloy. Make sure both the die and RB are lubed when you start.

Frank

[longbow]

Spokerider:

Mine drop at 0.433" and 165 grs. I had originally wanted a lighter weight, longer bearing surface and deeper lube groove more collar button like but Tom has limitations on lube groove depth. Anyway, when I asked him he was confident that the shorter boolit with shallower lube groove would suit my purposes and he was right. It is an excellent mould and the boolits shoot very well.

Tom scaled mine down from his .45 cal. 165 gr. mould. He can make whatever diameter you need.

I found that 10 grs. of 700X was a bit "poopier" than I had anticipated and they scooted right along with a healthy "CRACK". No pressure signs, just a much sharper crack and flatter trajectory than I was expecting. Probably 6 to 8 grs. would have been more in line with expectations. In any case 10 grs. of 700X and 165 grs. of lead versus 24 grs. of IMR4227 and 250 grs. of lead makes a real difference in both recoil and consumption of lead and powder.

I suppose I drifted off topic here a bit since you were actually asking about sizing down rounds balls. However, I started using .445" round balls sized to suit my .44 Marlin and while they worked well enough, I decided a lightweight boolit mould made more sense so I talked to Tom. That's how I wound up with my 165 gr. mould and no regrets. The boolits are more accurate and can be pushed faster with good accuracy.

Longbow

[Spokerider]

Great advice, thanks guys.

I decided to give the .490 RB another go.......... I cast some pure lead balls and sized them on the .462 Lee push through sizer........yes, it was a grunt, and then sized them one more time on the luber / sizer to .459 It seemed the pure lead and fresh cast balls did make a difference with the effort required, that and the alox lube helped.

So now it`s onto powder choice. Ideally, I would like the RB to print as close as possible to the POI that I have the contender / Skinner peep sight, sighted in for, for the 360gr hunting load I have developed. If I can get the RB close at 25m, I`ll be happy. Dunno if this will work or not, but I figure with varying the powder charge, I can move the POI around some.

Bullseye? Unique? Are either position sensitive? Fastest powder I have on hand is W231 and HS6.

[quasi]

if you have one of Miha's Webley hollow base boolit moulds in .457 dia., they work quite well for squib loads in my 45-70's.

[CPL Lou]

I'd love to have one of those collar button molds !
Does anyone have the link to Miha's website where it is posted for sale, so I can buy it directly ?
Thanks [smilie=s:

CPL Lou

[Spokerider]

Shot a bunch of RB / Bullseye powder loads today. Loads ranged from 2.5gr to 8.0 gr, going up in .5gr increments. Velocity was 550fps for the 2.5 gr loads and 1085 fps for the 8.0gr loads. Of course, the loads in between were in between these two speeds also.....don't feel like typing them all out.

These shot approx. 4-5 inches above the POI of my 360gr hunting load, with the faster 8.0gr loads printing only 3 inches higher at 25m. Groups ranged from 2.5 inches down to .75 of an inch. The faster 1080 load had a .75 inch group.

The 1085 load will do what I want it to do.......knock a coon out of the tree at 25m with out me or the mutts going deaf from the shot.