444 Marlin and MP-433-300HP favorite loads

[Shuz]

I fired a bunch of these Saturday with 45g of Rel 7 and 48g of H-322. Velocity was similar...around 2158 for the Rel7 and 2125 for the H-322. Accuracy with both was around 2" at 50 meters. I can live with either of these, but I'm wondering if a grain or 2 more would improve groups, or a grain or two less. What has been your experience? My boolits were cast from WW+1% tin, tested Saeco 7 (Bhn 11) and were .4324 in diameter and gas checked. Primer was Rem 9-1/2 and OAL was 2.504.

[helice]

Shuz,
If I got 3" groups at 100 yards with these old eyes and the 444 I was delighted. I have 3 LBT moulds one of which is a 300 WFN GC which I got up to and over the velocities you post. I got sick of the beating I was taking at the bench. Veral Smith recommended that I cut back on the charges (ReL-7) and increase the enjoyment. The results were better targets and more fun. I played with Ed Harris' "The Load" of 13 grains of RedDot, velocities around 1300 foot seconds, and brought home some rather impressive targets (for me). If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion - cut back on your loads - half a grain at a time and watch your targets. Others may have differnt ideas. Most of my 444 cases are now set up to get about 1900 foot seconds no matter how heavy the cast boolit. That load will drop anything I'll hunt here in CA.

[Marlin Junky]

I fired a bunch of these Saturday with 45g of Rel 7 and 48g of H-322. Velocity was similar...around 2158 for the Rel7 and 2125 for the H-322. Accuracy with both was around 2" at 50 meters. I can live with either of these, but I'm wondering if a grain or 2 more would improve groups, or a grain or two less. What has been your experience? My boolits were cast from WW+1% tin, tested Saeco 7 (Bhn 11) and were .4324 in diameter and gas checked. Primer was Rem 9-1/2 and OAL was 2.504.

Assuming your 444 is a Marlin, that's not bad for that BHN; however, I would try a slower powder to tighten the groups; or, if you back the Re7 off a couple grains you'll probably also tighten your groups. You'll probably also tighten your groups by going with a harder boolit. Can you go .433"? That might also help.

The preceding input assumes a 1:20" gun... I've never owned a 1:38".

BTW, that 2.504" COL is kinda short. I think I settled on 49 grains of H322 with Lee 430-310 but my COL was closer to 2.57"... then again, I nose sized Lee 430-310 at .426" in order to facilitate loaded round chambering. Oh yeah, I was also shooting mostly Lyman#2 or a bit harder through heat treating, not the addition of Sb.

MJ

[Shuz]

MJ--My Marlin is a 444SS of 1983 vintage and has a 1:38" twist. I can go .433, but the boolit would have to remain unsized as I do not have a .433 sizing die. I could heat treat my alloy, but I'm counting on the HP to provide a bit of expansion, and the heat treating makes that harder(pun intended).--Shuz

[Marlin Junky]

MJ--My Marlin is a 444SS of 1983 vintage and has a 1:38" twist. I can go .433, but the boolit would have to remain unsized as I do not have a .433 sizing die. I could heat treat my alloy, but I'm counting on the HP to provide a bit of expansion, and the heat treating makes that harder(pun intended).--Shuz

Shuz,

Your slow twist is probably the reason you're able to achieve acceptable accuracy with such soft boolits... I wish I had a slower twist gun (or one with better rifling) for those 300-ish grain boolits. Given the year of your gun, you probably have 12 grooves which are virtually as deep as the ones on my 6-groove "Ballard" rifled specimen.

Try the boolits at .433" and if they work for you, by all means get a .4330-.4335" die for checking and lubing. I know my gun will easily chamber and readily shoot .433" boolits; however, I determined it actually shoots some loads better at .432"... especially the gas checked heavy hitters. My 345 grain AM boolit drops at right around .434" and even at that diameter it will chamber; however, I've never shot it unsized (at .434") because I have no die that diameter for checking and lubing.

I achieved good results (1.5 MOA or less for 5 rounds) with powders as slow as AA2520 when using boolits in the 340 to 350 grain range through my carbine length 1:20 twist barrel while using alloys as soft as BHN 14. I don't recall trying anything softer, but once I attempted to shoot the same 340-350 grain boolits at reduced speed (1500-1600-ish) with somewhat faster powders, the accuracy flew out the proverbial window.

MJ

[helice]

I agree with the Marlin Junky.
My Big Bore Winchester is a 1 in 38 twist. I load boolits of .431" up to 300 grains and have no trouble getting groups. I have one of Veral's hardness testers and my loads are usually around 15 BHN but the 300 WFN has a gas check too. Again - I concur. Try finger lubing a couple dozen of your boolits as cast and try them out. I'll bet you'll be a lot happier with your groups.
I have to say that I have liked Alliant Re-Loder 7 for the 444. It has become my go to powder for that rifle and the 30-30 also.

[Shuz]

Thanks for the info fellas......I'll try some hand lubed MP-433-300HP's as cast and see what that does.
I'll be home tonight and I am hoping that the post office has my Dillon 450 444 conversion kit waiting for me.

[Marlin Junky]

Shuz,

Try 52-53 grains of AA2200 and/or H-335. Start at 50 grains and work up in 1/2 grain increments until you run out of case volume or reach max. pressure. IIRC, I was able to approach 2100 fps from my carbine (ported 18.5" bbl) using 53/AA2200 and 54/H-335 and Lee 430-310. Magnum primers pushed me over 2100 fps with the 310+ grain boolits and the accuracy was superb... unfortunately, so was the muzzle blast. For the record, I nose sized Lee 430-310 at .426" so I could chamber a 2.57-2.58" round. I don't think you'll be able to get over 50 grains of AA2200 or H-335 into the case if COL is limited to 2.5". Then again, I don't know how long your boolit is, so be careful.

MJ