32 S&W Long new guy questions

[jrts]

Memorial Day Greetings!

New guy here, I'm interested in getting started reloading 32 Long and have a lot of questions, got some answers using the search function, but have a few unanswered ones:

1. I bought a copy of Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading" and cannot locate any of the common powders listed for the 32 Long such as Universal, HP38, etc. I found a place which has Vhitavuori N32C which is supposedly a newish powder meant for cowboy shooting and approximates IMR Trail Boss. Seems kinda expensive but it appears to be available. Does anyone have N32C load data for 32 Long?

2. I'd also like to try casting and looked at some ingots sold by Rotometals. What Brinell hardness spec would be appropriate for 32 Long? Is it cost effective to buy the ingots for casting or is it more cost effective to purchase ready made cast bullets?



3. What wadcutter or semi wadcutter bullet mould would be appropriate for a beginner?

Thanks!

[trapper9260]

if you get the Lyman cast book it will help you alot and give you alot of info also you are looking for on most of it and for casting your own it is mainly how much you will be shooting and also how much you like to invest.There is alot that sell cast bullets and there is some that cast them like I do it is a matter of what you mainly looking to do.and as for bullet I say semi wadcutter that way you have more then one use for it ,Wadcutter is mainly for target shooting from what I know of but you can also use it for other things if you like hope this will help and someone else might be able to help also .

[Scharfschuetze]

The 32 S&W Long is pretty easy to load and is certainly frugal in its use of lead and powder. In checking my loading notes for a 4" Model 32 S&W, I found the following loads that performed well.

Bullet: 98 grain Speer HBWC
Primer: Rem 1 1/2
Powder: 1.6 grains Bullseye
Velocity: 762 fps, SD 10, accuracy was 2" at 50 feet for 18 shots

Same as above, but with 1.8 grains of Bullseye powder:

Velocity: 840 fps
SD: 12
Accuracy: 2 1/2" at 50 feet for 12 shots (hand held from a rest)

For a heavier field load, I like the following:

Bullet: 115 grain FPPB
Case: R-P with a heavy crimp
Primer: Rem 1 1/2
Powder: 3.4 grains of Unique
COAL: 1.205"
Velocity: 980 fps
SD: 16
Accuracy: 2 1/2" at 50 feet for 12 shots (hand held from a rest)

I'd be careful of using the field load in an old break top revolver. I'ts been very useful in the J frame. Cases just fall out of the chamber without needing to use the ejector in my particular pistol, so my guess is that it's of fairly low pressure, although the velocity would argue against that.

I hope this is of some help. I bought my J Frame for my son when he was young as it's small enough for a young boy to shoot and not too loud and the recoil is very light, yet it's pretty deadly on jackrabbits and ground squirrels.

I've never loaded jacketed bullets for it as it seems to really like cast or swaged lead.

[Mk42gunner]

jrts, Welcome aboard.

The little .32 S&W Long is a very fun cartridge. I recommend reading this article: http://www.lasc.us/FryxellThe32S-WLong.htm it has a lot of good info, but I think Glen got his dates of introduction mixed up. Regardless there is a lot of good info there.

I started my loading of the .32 S&W Long with Red dot and the Lyman 313445, but there are quite a few other molds out there that are easier to find. If I was starting today, I think I would get one of Lee's .32 caliber SWC molds to learn with.

I have always used air cooled Wheel weights for my .32 cal boolits, which check out about 12 BHN with the last batch I checked. Don't get too hung up on hardness, fit is more important.

Robert

[jrts]

Thanks for all the replies! Excellent information here. MK 42, where do you get your wheel weights, do you buy them new somewhere or scavenge from tire stores/garages? When you say fit is important, do you mean the fit of the mold? Thanks again

[JeffinNZ]

Ed Harris writes a bit about such over on the Cast Bullet Assc. forum also.

[Bucking the Tiger]

The 32 S&W Long is a fun little caliber! I have an old I frame Smith&Wesson, 4" in nickel, and it is a jem. It is so petite it will fit in the front pocket of my jeans.
Ken Waters,"Pet Loads" would be a good resource for this old cartridge. Load data can be a bit slim.
Going at such a moderate velocity, the 32 S&W Long doesn't need hard lead: anywhere around 8 to 12 Brihnell will work fine.
I might suggest the Lee 90 grain SWC mould. You can find them at MidwayUSA for $20 and they make a fine little boolit. The Gentleman stated fit being more important than lead hardness is right on target. The bore diameter can vary sometimes in 32's so finding what YOUR particular firearm likes will prevent leading and have the best accuracy. You will find mould makers producing .311,.313, and .314 sizes for the 32. The Lee drops a .314 in the 90gr SWC, but Lee also makes a 100gr RN in .311. Midsouth Shooters Supply has both in stock.
Slugging your bore will tell you the diameter.( ideally from .311 to .314)
This caliber is a good choice for Lee Alox: If using Lee moulds( which hit very close or right on stated diameter) you can tumble lube your new bullets and skip the lubesizer step.
RimRock Bullets has a good selection of ready made bullets for the 32 S&W Long, from a 78 grain roundnose to 125 grain Keith SWC. I have bought from them before and they are good people.
Personally, I would stay in the 90 to 115 grain range.

[Green Frog]

Welcome to the madness jrts. The little 32 S&W Long is an extremely easy round to load. There is a surprising number of bullets available, both as moulds and pre-cast. While I now own a bunch of different moulds for the various 32 pistol calibers, I purchased pre-cast or factory swaged bullets for a long time. If you possibly can find a pound canister of Bullseye powder, you will be able to load with it for a LOOOOOOONG time, say about 3500 rounds or so! This is not to say that other powders aren't usable, but that is an old, tried and true recipe. If you will look on the websites of the various powder manufacturers, most post load tables for their product... while I haven't checked the Vhitavouri site, I know Hogden and Alliant both have very good tables. BTW, if you want to cast for the little 32, the two "perfect" dies, the Ideal 313492 wad cutter and 313445 SWC are both available in DC on flea Bay right now.

Regards,
Froggie

[Nobade]

I second the Lee 90gr. tumble lube cone nose boolit. It works great in my Police Positive. 2.4gr. Titegroup is very accurate and burns clean. One thing about powder in the 32 is you really want something that burns fast and is easily ignited. Otherwise you get inconsistent burn and large velocity variations. Red Dot would be another good one. Unique is way too slow.

-Nobade

[Green Frog]

Just checked the VV website; and they list N310 as the only powder recommended for the 32 S&W Long. It looks to be almost the same as Bullseye as far as charges go, so once again you should get over 3500 rounds out of a single pound of powder, so the price of a 1 pound canister of either the VV or the BE should be of very little concern in the overall cost of your reloads.

To expand on what I said about buying bullets, the Hornady swaged wadcutters and semi-wadcutters seem to work really well in my I- and J-frame Smiths, and if they are back in stock, Georgia Arms 100 gr semi-wadcutters have been really great in my various Smiths.

The Lee TL wadcutter comes out VERY large from my friend's (Dale53) 6 cavity mould, so it will probably require a sizing step as well as the TL step (or maybe lube before and after sizing. :( )

E-mail (or PM) me if you would like to discuss any specifics.

Froggie

[Larry Gibson]

I found a place which has Vhitavuori N32C which is supposedly a newish powder meant for cowboy shooting and approximates IMR Trail Boss. Seems kinda expensive but it appears to be available. Does anyone have N32C load data for 32 Long?

I've conducted an extensive test of N32C (Tin Star) powder for VV and Powder River Cartridge Company. The testing included velocity and pressure testing. While I did not test the 32 S&WL with TS I did extensive testing in the 32 H&R. Based on my testing TS should also perform well in the 32 S&WL, especially in a solid frame revolver. However, I have not tested it in that cartridge so take my advise for what it’s worth.

I used the Lee TL314-90-SWC cast of Laser Cast alloy which is quite hard (22 BHN), the bullets were lubed with BAC. I suggest a starting load of 1.5 gr TS under that bullet and work up to 100% load density or 3 gr max, whichever comes 1st. The SAAMI MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) for the .32 S&WL is 15,000 psi with a peizo-transducer measurement. In the 32 H&R 3.1 gr TS under the 90 gr Lee cast bullet ran 14,100 psi(M43) with 992 fps from my non vented 10” test barrel.

Larry Gibson

[EMC45]

Wow! No one said the RCBS 32-098. I find it to be the ideal mold for the .32 class of cartridges. I shot 50 of them over the weekend over 2.5gr. Bullseye. R-P cases, Wolf SPP with a mild crimp. I like the bullet very much. There is a "following" in regard to this bullet. I also like the Lee 90gr. SWC TL, Lee 93gr. RN, Lee 100gr. RN, and another mold I have not sure of the maker, but it is brass SC with huge lube grooves and RNFP. Gotta get it hot as the devil's armpit to drop right. Also have to pressure pour it.

[JeffinNZ]

3 grains of powder. That's my kinda shooting. HAHA.

[Gaucho Gringo]

Or you could try black powder like the cartridge was originally designed for. No chance of overloading for those precious old breaktops. In fact I bought three more of them this weekend off of Gunbroker for less than $200.00. I now have five of those little .32 S&W buggers that I will probably shoot nothing but black powder. BTW I am also looking for .38 S&W brass for another breaktop I own.

[Mk42gunner]

Thanks for all the replies! Excellent information here. MK 42, where do you get your wheel weights, do you buy them new somewhere or scavenge from tire stores/garages? When you say fit is important, do you mean the fit of the mold? Thanks again

I get wheel weights and/or lead from anywhere I can, usually from tire shops, although I have bought lead from some of the scrap yards around here.

Fit. What I mean is the diameter of your boolit and the diameter of your gun, I usually try to size the boolit to be 0.001" larger than the groove diameter of the barrel, or throat if it is a revlover. For example, I have a Ruger SSM in .32 H&R Mag that the barrel slugs .312" while the throats are about 0.0005" larger. I size boolits for it at .313" and it puts them into satisfyingly small groups when I do my part, with no leading.

I also have an old S&W Model of 1903 in .32 S&W Long that I have never bothered with measuring, but it shoots the .313" boolits just fine.

I don't know what brand of gun you have, but there are stickies that describe how to slug a barrel and cylinder. The only tricky part is measuring the groove diameter if it has five groove rifling.

If you need more help, ask.

Robert

[MT Gianni]

I use the Lee 90 gr or the RCBS 98 over 2.5 gr Red Dot in my modified I frame S&W. It is a safe load in solid frame guns. Research all you can for break open loads if that is your gun.

[NoZombies]

Congrats and welcome to the world of reloading!

The first thing to do is make sure your gun is safe to shoot with anything, and then determine the load levels that are appropriate for the gun.

For anything that's top break (and assuming safe shooting condition) the Lee 90 grain SWC bullet over 1.8 grains of bullseye would be a good load, the RCBS SWC over 1.7 should also be pleasant, and neither load should tear the gun apart.

For S&W I frames and smallest Colts, a load of up to 2.0 grains of bullseye under either bullet should be just fine, and with the RCBS bullet, shoot fairly close to the sights.

For the J-frames and larger, a good load that Ive found is 2.1 grains of bullseye under the RCBS SWC or the Lee SWC

The loads I've listed are fairly conservative, and in the larger framed and newer guns, some increase is possible, but the loads I've listed have generally shot fairly close to the fixed sights in such guns.

There are a number of great bullet designs out there for the .32 family of cartridges, I wont bore you with a list, but any of the RCBS designs will do right by most shooters. The Lee SWC mold is cheap, and is almost analogous to the older ideal (or lyman) 313445 design, and the hornady swaged SWC bullet as far as nose profiles go.

[10mmShooter]

JRTS,

I have a little .32 SW Long and a SW 32-20 I use the same bullet for both, the RCBS 32-98-SWC, dressed out weighs 101 grain with wheel weights.

AA#5 and WW 231 are good powders for .32 SW Long.

Here are my samples next to a .44 for comparision. I really the like Keith SWC look that the little .32 has.

71973

[Green Frog]

When I first started casting (about 40 years ago) I got used Lyman and Ideal moulds with the first stuff I bought. I tried a couple of RCBS double cav moulds and similar Lee aluminum versions and couldn't get them to perform as easily and quickly as the L/I's so I just stayed with what worked and bought more of the same. Although I have recently worked with stuff out of green boxes and red & white boxes as well, I still prefer older Ideal moulds when I can find them. When I got busy developing loads for my growing herd of 32s, I sought out and purchased the DC moulds in 313445 (SWC) and 313492 (WC) and a SC 3118 (still looking for the DC in that design.) Although I own one custom mould and am in a GB for another, I just seem to keep going back to Ideal. :mrgreen:

Froggie

[jrts]

Wow, lots of great info here. I just found some Titegroup and brass. Waiting on back order of 32 Long dies. Could only find small pistol magnum primers. Should I back off a bit on the minimum load data if I have to use magnum primers? As always many thanks for the replies.

[drsfmd]

cannot locate any of the common powders listed for the 32 Long such as Universal, HP38, etc.

I don't reload for this caliber (though I did recently help a friend load up a batch of rounds for it), so I have no real opinion as to the "best" powder to use in this application (for the record, we loaded some with Unique, some with W231)... but I do know this-- powders are SLOWLY starting to trickle back in to retailers. There's a vaccum of backorders sucking up most of what is coming in, but we're not too far from the light at the end of the tunnel. I would suggest you read up on the cartridge, and make a determination of what powder you want to use, then start looking for a pound of that powder (FWIW, we used 2.5gn of Unique... which would give you 2800 rounds per pound!)

[NoZombies]

DC moulds in 313445 (SWC) and 313492 (WC) and a SC 3118

Those are all great molds, it's unfortunate for the new guys getting in that the only one available in their current catalog is the 311008 (same as the 3118). I've also got several of their other molds that I'm a big fan of for the .32. Their 31357 is neat and a great bullet, and for the loads in the 32 magnum, the 313631 has also been quite good in my guns. Lyman still makes some RN bullet designs that are good for the caliber, as do most of the other makers.

Titegorup works well in the cartridge, but be careful to check every charge to ensure you don't double! the .32 long is a low pressure cartridge, and the case is longer than needed for most powders. With a powder like TG, it's easy to overcharge a case and not notice. Be safe, and have fun! the little .32's are very thrifty on powder and lead, and if you don't push the limits of the cartridge, the brass lasts almost forever.

[Green Frog]

NoZombies,

I don't recognize the two numbers you added to the discussion, 31357 and 313631. The former would have to be pretty old to have a 2 digit pattern number, but I'm wondering how I missed the fairly recent 313631. I don't suppose you could post pix of these bullets? :coffeecom

I bought a pound of Titegroup and one of W-231 just before the buying panic hit, but am still using mostly Bullseye for 32 S&W Long and AA #7 for my 327 Fed Mag. Good to know from this thread that both of these other options seem to be good ones. This is a topic that never gets old for me, so thanks again to the "new guy" for bringing it up. :D

Froggie

[mroliver77]

As to casting you own. A lot of people like to spend your money and/or are tool snobs. They will recommend buying an expensive bottom pour pot, sizers, lubers etc. I started with a Cheapo hot plate, a strong steel sauce pan, a tired old lyman ladle,(ladle can be fashioned out of a strong spoon) a lee TL mould and Alox for lube. I made and shot a lot of .45 acp boolits this way! When I realized I was hooked I "upgraded" to a bottom pour pot and 6 cavity moulds, a lubsizer etc. My original setup made good ammo and taught me a lot and kept me off the streets.
I moved up to .22CF and needed a sizing die. I found an old Lee push through setup for pocket change and was in business.
Many guys still cast this way and would not change. I use a Lee 2 cavity double ended wadcutter mould for the kids .32 mag. She shoots mostly .32 Long ammo in it.
A lb of powder, a case of primers(5000) and ten lbs of lead will keep you busy for quite a while!

If you like to tinker casting just might be for you. If you are impatient and would rather throw money at it, buying boolits is prolly the way to go.
Jay

[NoZombies]

NoZombies,

I don't recognize the two numbers you added to the discussion, 31357 and 313631. The former would have to be pretty old to have a 2 digit pattern number, but I'm wondering how I missed the fairly recent 313631. I don't suppose you could post pix of these bullets? :coffeecom


The ideal 31357 is the original design for the .32 Colt's new police. The .32 new police of course is a 32 S&W long loaded with a flat nosed bullet. Colt couldn't stand the idea of putting the S&W name on their revolvers, so they "invented" their own cartridge that was identical in every way, except for the nose profile of the bullet.

http://nozombies.com/32np.jpg

The 313631 was designed for the .32 H&R magnum, and is probably the closest thing Lyman has ever made to a traditional Keith type SWC for the .32's.

It's the one in the middle with the GC shank:

http://nozombies.com/cast/32boolits.jpg

L-R in the above pic:
.313" RB, custom 80 gn .315 DEWC, lee 85 gn TL DEWC, Lyman 313492 type 3 WC, Lyman 313445 SWC, Lee .314-90 TL SWC, Lyman 313631 GC SWC, Custom 110 gn .315 SWC, RCBS 32-098 SWC, Ideal 31133 HP, Lyman 311008 RNFP, Lee 100 gn .311 RN, Lyman 311410.

That picture is old now, and I have at least twice as many .32 molds, but it does give a good representation of some of the many designs available.

I agree with the post saying that you don't need to spend a lot of money to get started casting and reloading. I started out cheap, and didn't start buying the more expensive equipment and molds until I realized that I enjoy casting itself, and even collecting the molds as a hobby unto itself.

[Outpost75]

You can use .32 ACP dies with a .223 Rem. shell holder to load. 32 S&W Longs. Magnum primers are OK as long as you stay below maximum loads. In my S&W Hand Ejector I load the RCBS .32-90CM with 2 grains of Bullseye, which is a good approximation of factory loads. I also shoot these in a Sportsman's Guilde insert in my No. 4 Enfield. 303 for small game. They shoot "on" at 50 feet using the 300-yard battlesight setting.

[Green Frog]

Thanks, NZ. That's about as nice a family group shot of the 32 revolver bullets as I've ever seen. My personal mould list is pretty sparse by comparison, Ideal 3118, 313445, 313492 and a 311316 (if I can find where I stashed it) then a NOE copy of the 3118 that runs a heavy 125 grains which is just right for the 327 FM. If it ever comes to fruition, I also have a MiHec 110 grain with penta-point cavity on order in a group buy. Friend Dale53 has provided me with Lee TL WC & SWC and I have about a thousand (total) commercially swaged HBWCs and SWCs. Wow, I've gotta get out and do some more shooting! :Fire:

Froggie

[BAGTIC]

I use the SAECO mould for my .32 Long and .32 H&R Magnum. It casts WW at 104 gr and .314. I tumble lube with JPW. It shoots accurate groups. In the H&R at 1200 fps with HTWW it gives deep penetration in wood and even an engine block once.

[Outpost75]

I use the Saeco #322 which is a 120-gr. flatnosed bullet intended for the .32-20, as my standard bullet in a rook rifle relined to .32 S&W Long. For a hollow-point bullet I have a #3118 HP, which is very effective when cast 1:25 tin/lead and driven from the rifle or a 4-1/2" revolver with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. In the Ruger Single Six .32 H&R Magnum you can use 3 grains of Bullseye with this bullet.

My favorite small game bullet in .32 S&W Long for the Hand Ejector is the Saeco #325 which is a 98-grain SWC with large meplat. I cast this from wheelweights and load 2 grains of Bullseye in the older guns and the alloy frame Colt Cobra, and 2.5 grains in the postwar S&W Models 30 or 31 or postwar Colt Police Positive Specials. 3 grains of Bullseye ONLY in the Rugers@!

If you also load for the .32 ACP the RCBS 32-90CM is the best choice if you want one bullet as a "one size fits all" unless you KNOW that your .32 Auto pistol will feed SWCs. Some will.7247872479724807248172482