Shooting the 200gr. Lyman#311299 at longer ranges in a .308.

[Dthunter]

Hi guys! I havent been to the site in a while. I just thought I would send a few lines telling about some fun wih my .308 Win.

The other day I took my Rem700, Varmint Laminate out bear hunting. I hadnt shot my pet load in maybe 6-8 months. So we had to double check my point of aim. As we neared the gravel pit we shoot at here, we saw a perfectly highlighted rock on a far bank. My buddy was shooting his 7mm Magnum, with all the high end Berger VLD's and huskama scope.

He liked the position and challenge this target offered. He ranged it at 525 yards and adjusted his scope. Took his shot and hit the 6-8" rock on the bottom edge. SMACK!

After he was putting his rifle back into the truck, I asked him to spot for me. I wanted to see if all my load testing and work I did before was up to the task.
I new the rifle was perfectly on site the last time I shot it, so all I should have to do is adjust my elevation and hold steady. I adjusted my elevation by 17.5 MOA and touched it off.

I managed to hit the rock just left of center! Whoohoo!
I was stoked! I shot two more times to show my buddy it was no accident. Two more hits later i was feeling pretty good about my load!

We continued to the gravel pit and checked our 100 yard zeros as well.
It sure is nice to show some people that cast bullet shooting is more capable than most think!
Armed with this success and fun, I may try to extend my target shooting out further yet. Maybe getting to 1000 yards. My scope should have the adjustment, but I dont know if the bullet will stay stabil long enough. I guess I will see.

My load is with CCI 250 primers
Neck sized match brass
A Charge of IMR4831
A 200 grain #311299 boolet sized to .310".
Lyman supermoly lube, and Hornady gascheck
Alloy is 18lbs. wheel weights+ 8' of 50/50 lead,tin solder. (Air cooled)
The boolet is seated out to engrave into the rifling as I close the bolt.
I also coat the boolet nose with lee liquid allox to aid in hydraulicly centering the boolet nose in the bore. ( the boolet nose dia is .300", and my slugged bore is the same).
Average velocity of this load is 2350 fps. Based on 50 rounds fired through the crony over two different days of shooting.

Just a closing note:

I target shoot to the limits of my equipment for a challenge/fun, and to learn. I "DO NOT" shoot at animals this way. My max distance I will shoot an animal with my cast load is 200 yards. I want my boolet alloy to be able to produce some degree of mushrooming.

[K7addict]

This is pretty awesome. Thanks for your time in writing this up as I'm interested in long distance shooting with CB as well. If not for the challenge then to show my good friend that it can be done with decent accuracy.

[Dthunter]

This is pretty awesome. Thanks for your time in writing this up as I'm interested in long distance shooting with CB as well. If not for the challenge then to show my good friend that it can be done with decent accuracy.

No problem at all!
I had some help with a few guys on this forum as well. Its nice to share some succeses with you guys.

[Larry Gibson]

Rem700, Varmint Laminate out bear hunting

12" twist?

Any bears?

Larry Gibson

[Dthunter]

You bet Larry!

Great hearing from you! I worked this load up with your help a little more than a year ago. We have seen about a dozen different bears this last week. One boar was nearly big enough to shoot! He had a heavy frame, big head, smaller ears, and gorgeous hide!
My guess is about a 350-400 pounder.

I have shot bears of this size before with various firearms/bows/ etc. I am hoping to find a bear in the 20"+ Size.

We had one bear exhibit some weird behavior!
We spotted him feeding along a pipeline about 100 yards away. We stopped and were initially field judging him to see if hes big enough to consider for my friend. He saw us and walked all the way up to the truck and started to circle around it. We drove ahead a ways thinking it would scare him. No dice! He just walked back to the truck and started to circle it again!

This bear seemed a little aggresive, but he may have had people feeding him before. Sometimes the oilfield guys/workers will do this. He was too small to shoot, so we continued on our way.
Only two more weeks left in the season.

71930

This is that confused bear. lol!

[Artful]

311299 should have a BC of .377 at velocities above 1800 fps -
this looks about right -

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=90bfa0ee

Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time ___Energy_____Vel[x+y]
(yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -1.5___0__ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 0.04____ 0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 2453____ 2350
50 0.09 _-0.17____-0.05____ 0.22____ 0.41____ 0.12____ 0.07___________ 2304 ____2278
100 0.00__0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.76_____ 0.72_____ 0.21_____ 0.13___________ 2163_____2207
150 -1.88 1.20 0.35 1.68 1.07 0.31 0.20 2027 2136
200 -5.66 2.70 0.79 3.01 1.44 0.42 0.27 1898 2067
250 -11.48 4.38 1.27 4.77 1.82 0.53 0.35 1775 1999
300 -19.48 6.20 1.80 6.97 2.22 0.65 0.42 1657 1932
350 -29.80 8.13 2.36 9.64 2.63 0.77 0.50 1546 1865
400 -42.62 10.17 2.96 12.82 3.06 0.89 0.58 1439 1800
450 -58.13 12.33 3.59 16.52 3.51 1.02 0.67 1338 1736
500 -76.53 14.61 4.25 20.79 3.97 1.15 0.76 1243 1673
550 -98.03 17.02 4.95 25.63 4.45 1.29 0.85 1155 1612
600 -122.87 19.55 5.69 31.07 4.94 1.44 0.94 1074 1555
650 -151.32 22.23 6.47 37.14 5.46 1.59 1.04 998 1499
700 -183.63 25.05 7.29 43.84 5.98 1.74 1.14 929 1446
750 -220.10 28.02 8.15 51.20 6.52 1.90 1.25 864 1395
800 -261.03 31.16 9.06 59.24 7.07 2.06 1.36 804 1346
850 -306.77 34.46 10.02 67.99 7.64 2.22 1.47 749 1299
900 -357.66 37.95 11.04 77.45 8.22 2.39 1.59 698 1253
950 -414.27 41.63 12.11 87.71 8.81 2.56 1.71 649 1209
1000 -476.65 45.51 13.24 98.70 9.42 2.74 1.84 607 1169

[Dthunter]

311299 should have a BC of .377 at velocities above 1800 fps -
this looks about right -

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=90bfa0ee

Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time ___Energy_____Vel[x+y]
(yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -1.5___0__ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 0.04____ 0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 2453____ 2350
50 0.09 _-0.17____-0.05____ 0.22____ 0.41____ 0.12____ 0.07___________ 2304 ____2278
100 0.00__0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.76_____ 0.72_____ 0.21_____ 0.13___________ 2163_____2207
150 -1.88 1.20 0.35 1.68 1.07 0.31 0.20 2027 2136
200 -5.66 2.70 0.79 3.01 1.44 0.42 0.27 1898 2067
250 -11.48 4.38 1.27 4.77 1.82 0.53 0.35 1775 1999
300 -19.48 6.20 1.80 6.97 2.22 0.65 0.42 1657 1932
350 -29.80 8.13 2.36 9.64 2.63 0.77 0.50 1546 1865
400 -42.62 10.17 2.96 12.82 3.06 0.89 0.58 1439 1800
450 -58.13 12.33 3.59 16.52 3.51 1.02 0.67 1338 1736
500 -76.53 14.61 4.25 20.79 3.97 1.15 0.76 1243 1673
550 -98.03 17.02 4.95 25.63 4.45 1.29 0.85 1155 1612
600 -122.87 19.55 5.69 31.07 4.94 1.44 0.94 1074 1555
650 -151.32 22.23 6.47 37.14 5.46 1.59 1.04 998 1499
700 -183.63 25.05 7.29 43.84 5.98 1.74 1.14 929 1446
750 -220.10 28.02 8.15 51.20 6.52 1.90 1.25 864 1395
800 -261.03 31.16 9.06 59.24 7.07 2.06 1.36 804 1346
850 -306.77 34.46 10.02 67.99 7.64 2.22 1.47 749 1299
900 -357.66 37.95 11.04 77.45 8.22 2.39 1.59 698 1253
950 -414.27 41.63 12.11 87.71 8.81 2.56 1.71 649 1209
1000 -476.65 45.51 13.24 98.70 9.42 2.74 1.84 607 1169


LOL! Yep its certainly "IS" about right! The rock went smack!

I reeeally hope I can get the boolets on the back board at 1000! There will be some fist celebrations happening if I hit the gong there as well!!!!

Thanks for the responses guys!

[Artful]

If you have 45-48 MOA adjustment you should be able to get them there as your still supersonic. Let us know how it goes.

[Dthunter]

I am headed back to work next week (not
Much time), and my shooting area is all muddy. I may just make the mud trek and give it a try tomorrow.

[Artful]

Let us know how it goes.

[Dthunter]

Its been raining ridiculous amounts lately! My shooting areas are a mess! Hopefully they are drivable tomorrow!
When I get out there, I will dial in 500 yards again, then 800. If all goes well, I will stretch it to 1000. It would be awesome to ring that gong!

[Dthunter]

Hi guys! Well I had a chance to do some shooting today. Things went fairly well, except I could not get past the 700 yard marker!
My shooting area has a spot between 725-850ish that humps up and blocks most of the target butt. this puts that 125 yard section really close to my line of site! The mirage gets real bad there! The next trip out there, I will have to place the target butt at the 300 yard shooting position, and I will shoot from the 1100 yard shooting position to get my 800yard distance.
From my calculations, my maximum distance that I can adjust my scope is around the 900 yard mark. After that I will have to see if my mil dots will suffice to 1000.

722747227572276
As you can see, the 500 Yard Target group wasn't all that great today (8.25"), But I am still happy with it.

The 600 yard group wasn't bad today. Two shots within 1.1" and the third at 7:00 below the gong. For some unknown reason, I didn't rotate the measuring tape to include the third shot! Brain Fart! LOL! The group should be around 6.75"

The 700 Yard group I was very happy with! Again, sorry about the picture, I cut out the 4th shot on the bottom. my I phone screen is hard to see in the bright light. The widest part of this group is around 8-3/8". Great for this distance!
I had adjusted my scope 2 clicks to the right after my group at 600. I figured I would like to center my better. One click too many I guess! LOL!
Most of my groups dispersion is horizontal, so my loads standard deviation is hanging in there!

When things dry up a little, and my next chance arrives, I will send a few more boolets down range and report the results again.

For those who care, my load is as follows: This load is safe in my firearm, so start lower than my 46.0grains of IMR4831, and work up. Use this information at your own risk.

Now that my butt is covered,

Winchester fully prepped cases, Neck Sized
CCI BR2 primers
46.0 Grains of IMR 4831 Powder
200 Grain, Lyman #311299 bore rider style Boolet, sized to .310", Hornady Copper Gas Check
Lyman Super Moly Lube
Boolet Nose section lubed with Lee Liquid Allox (I feel it helps to hydraulically center the bullet in the chamber).
Boolet seated out to engrave lightly into the rifling lands.
Average Velocity of this load is 2375fps. (over at least 50 test rounds/ over 2-3 different days).
Boolet alloy: 18lbs wheel weight lead, plus 8 feet of 50/50 Lead/tin solder.
Air cooled
These boolets mushroom O.K., but they sometimes will fragment when shot into green spruce wood (length wise with grain).

Hopefully this info can help some fellow casters!

Please remember to start lower on the powder charge and work up. This powder charge has the powder at the base of the neck. My case necks don't blacken at this charge. I found at 43.0grains the necks blackened, but it shot very well!

[W.R.Buchanan]

DT: what kind of scope do you have on that gun, and what kind of reticle does it have?

Something I would highly recommend is a video offered by Magpul called "Art of the Precision Rifle." It is done by Travis Haley and Chris Costas, and the "teacher" for the course is Todd Hodnett.

This guys knows his stuff and can articulate this very technical subject better than anyone I have ever heard. He can explain all of his concepts in simple plain english, and he doesn't stutter or hesitate when asked a question. (good indicator of complete understanding and competance)

After watching it you will have a much better idea of how to ring that gong. It is 5 disks long! You will have to watch these videos multiple times as the subject is very complex, however it is still very doable for anyone of average or above average intelect. These guys are all pretty smart guys, but they are also smart enough to understand that not everyone is at their level, and so they teach to everyone. If you are smart enough to run a Ballistic Calculator then you are smart enough for this course.

You were talking about running out of adjustment in your scope. (Which is what made me think about this post.) He has simple ways to get around all of that, by using different parts of the reticle for sighting.

I highly recommend this video course for the aspiring long range shooter. Todd Hodnett is the guy who trains our military sniper instructors. And he is defiantely that good. You will understand what I'm saying within a few minutes of listening to him.

I really like what you've done so far, as 311299 is one of my favorite Boolits. I have a NOE mould for this boolit as well. :-D

Randy

[Dthunter]

DT: what kind of scope do you have on that gun, and what kind of reticle does it have?

Something I would highly recommend is a video offered by Magpul called "Art of the Precision Rifle." It is done by Travis Haley and Chris Costas, and the "teacher" for the course is Todd Hodnett.

This guys knows his stuff and can articulate this very technical subject better than anyone I have ever heard. He can explain all of his concepts in simple plain english, and he doesn't stutter or hesitate when asked a question. (good indicator of complete understanding and competance)

After watching it you will have a much better idea of how to ring that gong. It is 5 disks long! You will have to watch these videos multiple times as the subject is very complex, however it is still very doable for anyone of average or above average intelect. These guys are all pretty smart guys, but they are also smart enough to understand that not everyone is at their level, and so they teach to everyone. If you are smart enough to run a Ballistic Calculator then you are smart enough for this course.

You were talking about running out of adjustment in your scope. (Which is what made me think about this post.) He has simple ways to get around all of that, by using different parts of the reticle for sighting.

I highly recommend this video course for the aspiring long range shooter. Todd Hodnett is the guy who trains our military sniper instructors. And he is defiantely that good. You will understand what I'm saying within a few minutes of listening to him.

I really like what you've done so far, as 311299 is one of my favorite Boolits. I have a NOE mould for this boolit as well. :-D

Randy


Thanks Randy!
I dont have much trouble hitting the gong normally (Weather permitting). These groups were to show how suprizingly well these boolets seem to fly. These are litterally the first groups ever with these boolets at this distance. It was an experiment so to speak. From one group on this target, I have the information I need to record rhe proper measurements to consistantly hit the gong. the science behind long range shooting is really interesring! I have studied "Brian Litz" Applied Ballitstics For The Long Range Shooter. Awsome book!

I regularily shoot out to 1500 & 1760yards with a variety of tactical rifles. I highly promote these kinds of books for long range shooting! It is very addictive!

The scope is a Cheap bushnell 5-15power, 3200, tactical. Mildot retical.
Thanks for the reply Randy!

[Dthunter]

W.R.Buchannon:

My adjustments on my scope will allow me to adjust out to about 890 yards. Affer that, I Will use the MilDot subtensions for the balance of my trajectory solution. The only weakness in this is that the mildots on my scope havent been proven yet. But thats for another function test/thread.

I am not new to this long range stuff, I have shot in competition out to a mile, and come out on top. A reallly good day indeed! I am quite proud of that actually!
I have had the help of allot of people to get me there!

And if there is one thing I have learned, is that this style of shooting will humble you in a heartbeat! Its difficult & unforgiving for missed details! But man I love it! So very fullfilling when you calculate your solution, set up, and make your adjustments according to live conditions, send your round down range to hit a target!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I always like the 311291. I must try it in my 700 SPS Tactical.

[Doc Highwall]

I liked the Brian Litz Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting book also. So much so that when he came out with the second edition book I bought it.

You really do need a 20 minuet forward sloping scope base to shoot past 8-900 yards or you will run out of elevation, and if you do get there you will have no windage to be useful enough.

[Dthunter]

I liked the Brian Litz Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting book also. So much so that when he came out with the second edition book I bought it.

You really do need a 20 minuet forward sloping scope base to shoot past 8-900 yards or you will run out of elevation, and if you do get there you will have no windage to be useful enough.


You bet!
I installed a 20 MOA rail, and Burris signature rings. I used the +.010 on the bottom of the back ring, and -.010" on the bottom of the front ring to give me plenty of vertical bias. When my scope is set for a 150 yard zero, I only have 1MOA of down movement left. This setup is maximized.

The only thing I can do to increase my potential range is to get a 30mm tube scope with a larger range of movement. that is already in the works for the near future.
I love this stuff!

[Doc Highwall]

For example say you have your rifle setup with a 100 yard zero and only 2 minuets up from the bottom, now add up the number of minuets of change from 100 yards to 1000 yards, I will do a slight rounding with a M118 ammo.

100 to 200 = 3min.
200 to 300 = 4min.
300 to 600 = 11min
600 to 1000 = 27min.
------------------------
Total = 38min.

A 1" tube scope has only 40 min. total, +- 20 min from the center. this leaves almost zero windage at both top and bottom of scope adjustments.

This is why a 30mm scope tube is better but still needs a 20min. forward slope or it will also be hindered by lack of windage at the top of it's elevation.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This all gets back to Naval Gunnery which I consider to be the top of the heap.

When you consider that they could hit a target 25 miles away from a floating/moving platform, without the aid of electronic computers (yes they did have analog computers) in the mid 1930's!

It blows me away that that same technology is still at the fore front of what we are doing now. I guess they really figured out all this ballistic/trajectory stuff out in WWI in Europe when the artillery barrages went on for days and some people took note of what was going on.

I wonder how much windage a 16"/2500lb projectile needs dialed in, in a 30mph cross wind at 25 miles? while moving at 25 knots,,, at 30 degrees away from the target? While holding your mouth right?

Randy

[Dthunter]

This all gets back to Naval Gunnery which I consider to be the top of the heap.

When you consider that they could hit a target 25 miles away from a floating/moving platform, without the aid of electronic computers (yes they did have analog computers) in the mid 1930's!

It blows me away that that same technology is still at the fore front of what we are doing now. I guess they really figured out all this ballistic/trajectory stuff out in WWI in Europe when the artillery barrages went on for days and some people took note of what was going on.

I wonder how much windage a 16"/2500lb projectile needs dialed in, in a 30mph cross wind at 25 miles? while moving at 25 knots,,, at 30 degrees away from the target? While holding your mouth right?

Randy

Ha ha! No doubt! The drift would be measured in MANY yards!
It is truly amazing what our forefathers could do! They were the pioneers of this stuff! We only borrow the information they come up with!

[Four Fingers of Death]

You forgot to factor in current, wave height, swell, surface tension and atmospheric conditions. This sounds pretty impressive, but there was also a bit of let er' rip and see where she lands sort of computation added as well.

My father said that in parts of New Guinea, they didn't have any maps and the artillery would guestimate and fire a shot and keep lowering it until they could hear or see it land. One time they were facing a swag of very hostile Japs (was there any other kind??) and they had an artillery observer with them. He and his offsider crawled to a ridge and called in some fire. The first round hit the two of them, killing them both. They looked at their the Company Commander and said 'what will we do now?' The Company Commander, Gerry O'Day (affectionately known as GOD) said '**** and apply for leave!' A popular expression with the troops. He then said, 'well apart from bringing up all the grenades to us poor silly ******** at the sharp end, fix bayonets and charge the Japs, I can't think of anything else we can do on a three foot track on the side of a mountain, besides, we had better get going in case they decide to lob a few more in. Artillery wise, the safest place now seems to be where the Japs are'

Next thing, a fuzzy wuzzy (New Guinea native) came running up the track with a heap of grenades. Dad's Sargent shrugged and said 'I figured that's what we would be doing when the two Nine Mile Snipers (Aussie for Artillery) bought it.'

Dad said that occasionally a round would land in the middle of them, but mostly it was ok. He said they were realllllllllll glad when the boss eventually got maps and a radio.

[dk17hmr]

If your looking into getting a 30mm tube take a good look at the Leupold VX3 8.5-25x50mm with the Varmint Hunter reticle. I love mine. It has 94 MOA internal elevation and windage. I have it on my 300wsm setting on a 50MOA base and I still don't have a bottomed out zero at 100 yards, I'm about 6 minutes from the bottom, ideally I would like to be bottomed out or closer to the bottom at 200. As is with a 208gr A-max moving 2875fps I can get out to about 2000 yards with turning the turret. After 2000 that's when the reticle comes in to play.

I haven't shot any cast bullets passed 800 yards. I was playing around with my as issued 1903 Springfield and was able to keep the bullets close to my steel target at that distance. What you are getting as for groups is very impressive. I have been thinking about shooting my NOE 311-247 at distance for a while, I might have to try it in my Remington 700 30-06.

[Whiterabbit]

This all gets back to Naval Gunnery which I consider to be the top of the heap.

I wonder how much windage a 16"/2500lb projectile needs dialed in, in a 30mph cross wind at 25 miles? while moving at 25 knots,,, at 30 degrees away from the target? While holding your mouth right?

Randy

Trick question. I've never met a sailor that could hold his mouth.

[Dthunter]

Wow! Not much interest in longer range shooting with cast boolets?

[mroliver77]

Well I am impressed with your groups for 700 yards with cast! I have a trail along side my back field that I can get a little over 800 yards. My property line is 1/2 mile there along side a RR right of way. I need to do some cutting and chopping to straighten it up some yet. I thought ringing my gong at 250 then 350 with m1A with factory sights was runnin with the big dogs. :)
J

[W.R.Buchanan]

DTH: not that they aren't interested,,,very few have access to a 1000 yard range. Best I can do without traveling to the desert is 600 yards, and I am pretty fortunate to have access to that range.

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

We have a 900 yard range next to ours, but they are hard to get along with. They only shoot prone (and actually got the range license changed so that prone is the only allowed position, preventing others from using it. They don't like people doing anything except shooting the two details of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots at the particular distance range they are shooting for the day. They are so hard to get along with, their members come to my range to run barrels in, work out loads, etc. Nearly all 'long range' shooting ranges in Australia are controlled by these clowns and they all seem to make it difficult to shoot anything other then their set match.

[Whiterabbit]

make it hard to join in and shoot, and soon there will be no one left to join the club.

[Four Fingers of Death]

make it hard to join in and shoot, and soon there will be no one left to join the club.

Yep, they are always struggling with numbers, but want it all their way. I have spoken to them in the past, as the range is local Government owned and I felt that if we shared it with different shooting bodies and used it as often as possible, there would be less chance of losing the range. They respond by doing a ring around when anyone else tries to use the range and a couple of guys come up and have a shot and block the other group. Short sighted and mean spirited. Hard to understand.

[Whiterabbit]

The rules are simple, for those who live in un-Christian ways. You will play handball my way because I own the ball. Otherwise, I will take my ball and leave.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Plenty of stupid people in this world, and that's exactly what the gun grabbers are counting on. As soon as they get all our guns then they will want our cars,and then all the women.

I could go on and on.

Randy

[Dthunter]

I see what you guys are getting at. Its too bad! I guess I can consider myself lucky to have these areas to shoot. Most of them are within 25 miles of my home.

I can hardly wait to get home from work. (I work 2 weeks and then get 1 week off).
It has been raining every day form nealry three weeks! Ridiculous! That never happens here! Lol!
Its the wettest year i have ever experienced in Alberta!

[W.R.Buchanan]

FFOD: google "Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals" Read the Wikipedia blurb on him first and on the book second. This guy was a left wing kind of guy but in reality his methods are incredibly effective and can be used with equal efficacy by either side of the aisle.

The main point is the Community Organization factor. All power is derived from numbers. and in order to mass those numbers there are effective techniques that can employed. Saul Alinsky concocted most of them.

It is an interesting read and you will be much smarter after reading it. My thinking on these subjects has advanced considerably since reading the jist of it just two days ago.

All knowledge is good knowledge. If a person was not willing to use any of the rules, at least he would know what was being used against him.

DTH: this is good reading for your off time as well. Helps you understand why you've got the laws you've got in Canada. Really it is the same everywhere.

Randy

[LynC2]

That was some excellent shooting with cast loads! I'll give you an "attaboy" for that! :grin:

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks WRB, I'll check it out.

When I lived in Sydney, the big range I used to shoot at was facing closure. The two bodies got together and made sure someone was there making noise every day and the horse riding school was operating every day as well, That was in the early 70s and the range is still popping. The local club will fold with the first serious blow I think. I hope I'm wrong, but they seem bent on self destruction.

[atr]

hey,,good shooting and thanks for posting your load information...
I have some 311299 and 4831 and was wondering how it would work in my .308.....you have given my a good starting point
atr

[Dthunter]

Thankyou for the ecouragement guys!
This is sooooo much fun!

I will look into that WR Buchanan, thankyou as well!

[Dthunter]

Hi Guys! FIELD REPORT

Got back home from work and spent part of the day shootin.
I went to my longest shooting area, and it was barely dry enough to navigate the road! But I could! WhooHoo!

The first picture is a group of 5 rounds shot at 800 Yards (again with the same load and the #311299,200 gr Boolet). The extream spread of the group isn't all that great, but the three in the center of the gong indicate the load still has potential.
74317

These are the three rounds on the gong
74318

The groups at 900 started to expand. Up to 18" on one group. Not what I wanted to see, but not terrible on the first try at his distance with cast Boolets. The mud splattered brown paper of the target butt makes the boolet holes a little harder to see, and I hope you can see the 3 holes. The measuring tape is in one boolet hole, to help measure the group size. The three holes make a nice elongated triangle.
74319

The groups at 1000 varied a fair bit. As I finished shooting at 900, the wind progressively, slowly, increased. It was almost straight in my face (from about the 1:30 position). There was mostly vertical dispersion in these groups. This 5 shot group was very vertically strung. The chrony indicated a consistent velocity in those 5 rounds, so I have to assume the head wind was the culprit.
74323

Sorry, I had a brain fart and never put the tape measure up to give you an exact measurement! Darn it!

I am going to give my rifle a good cleaning and head out again in the near future to see if I can put the groups onto the plate next time, and not just shoot for group size comparisons. Hope you guys enjoyed the pictures!

Here is a few pictures of my cast boolet rem 700 Varmint Laminate, and the target view.

743267432774328

[supe47]

Nice shootin'. I also shoot the 311299 in my Rem 700 sps. I've had good luck with Varget and have not tried 4831. Just might have to give it a try. Read about the liquid alox on the bullet nose but have not tried it. Even have a tray for holding them after dipping. On a good day i can hold 'em at 3/4 MOA out to 300 yds., the max of our range. I love it when after looking at my groups on the 300 yd line and then walking past my shooting table and seeing the CAST boolits. I've not tried the 311299 in my 30-06 yet, still haven't finished fire forming all the cases yet. The 308 seemed like a better case, powder capacity wise, to start with. I lose accuracy when I exceed about 1950 fps. Maybe the liquid alox will help that. I'm using a near Linotype alloy. Might just have to change to something a little softer to give me a little nose slump. I'm enjoying this thread.
Supe

[Artful]

Good Shooting - you might want some wind flags along your shooting lane there to help judge those head winds.

[Dthunter]

Artful:

You bet! Wind flags would definitely help!
I forgot a few things that morning. I forgot both my wind flags, and the support legs for my target butt! LOL! I just jerry rigged up two sticks to perform the job.

[Mike H]

We have a 900 yard range next to ours, but they are hard to get along with. They only shoot prone (and actually got the range license changed so that prone is the only allowed position, preventing others from using it. They don't like people doing anything except shooting the two details of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots at the particular distance range they are shooting for the day. They are so hard to get along with, their members come to my range to run barrels in, work out loads, etc. Nearly all 'long range' shooting ranges in Australia are controlled by these clowns and they all seem to make it difficult to shoot anything other then their set match.
I am one of those clowns,not from that club though,if you made the effort to join the club,along with a couple of mates,you would find a way to get along.
Mike.

[Four Fingers of Death]

With the moonshaped trajectory of the 45/70, I'd be surprised if any scope could handle it properly. You might be better off with a big tang sight.

[Artful]

for rainbow trajectories you will have to forego adjustment internally in the scope and look at adjustable scope mounts

http://www.heritage-arms.com/ColdShot-150.htm
http://www.heritage-arms.com/images/ColdShot_photos/150-closeup-camo-M.jpg
http://www.heritage-arms.com/PDF/ColdShot_News_flash_06-14-11.pdf

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/10/ivey-externally-adjusting-scope-mounts-for-ultra-long-range-shooting/

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/4/prweb10548373.htm
http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/04/15/10548373/gI_68001_latestmount.jpg

[Four Fingers of Death]

They would no doubt work, but would look a little odd on an 1875. i might try one on my 308W Remington 700SPS Tactical when I recover from this period of financial embarrassment. haha! (heck, what am I laughing about?)

I just checked out the links, amazing products, amazing quality by the look of it.

[Lefty SRH]

Great work DTH, around here its hard to get 400yds without driving a couple hrs atleast. I'd love to be able to stretch my cast .308 out that far with a slow powder but all I own are short barrels. So far my Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle has been doing well. I recently put glass on her and plan on getting her out to 400 soon. Well, after I "make arrangements" with some buddys.

[Lefty SRH]

for rainbow trajectories you will have to forego adjustment internally in the scope and look at adjustable scope mounts

http://www.heritage-arms.com/ColdShot-150.htmI
http://www.heritage-arms.com/images/ColdShot_photos/150-closeup-camo-M.jpg
http://www.heritage-arms.com/PDF/ColdShot_News_flash_06-14-11.pdf

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/10/ivey-externally-adjusting-scope-mounts-for-ultra-long-range-shooting/

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/4/prweb10548373.htm
http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/04/15/10548373/gI_68001_latestmount.jpg


That is really interesting base! :)

[Four Fingers of Death]

My mate has a 275 yard target set up on his property, but the hill is so steep, you need to include that in your calculations and by the time I have scrambled up to check the target, I'm done for the day, lol.

[Whiterabbit]

for rainbow trajectories you will have to forego adjustment internally in the scope and look at adjustable scope mounts

http://www.heritage-arms.com/ColdShot-150.htm
http://www.heritage-arms.com/images/ColdShot_photos/150-closeup-camo-M.jpg
http://www.heritage-arms.com/PDF/ColdShot_News_flash_06-14-11.pdf

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/10/ivey-externally-adjusting-scope-mounts-for-ultra-long-range-shooting/

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/4/prweb10548373.htm
http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/04/15/10548373/gI_68001_latestmount.jpg

wow, these things are awesome! they might just be the ticket for shooting heavy cal "whisper" type cartridges. What's the cost on a product like this? I see the lower one is around $550

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a look at the sites, they seem to run$US500 +

[Artful]

They would no doubt work, but would look a little odd on an 1875. i might try one on my 308W Remington 700SPS Tactical when I recover from this period of financial embarrassment. haha! (heck, what am I laughing about?)

I just checked out the links, amazing products, amazing quality by the look of it.

http://www.possibleshop.com/images-rifles/24-rifle-scoe.jpg
http://www.possibleshop.com/rifle-malcolm-scopes.html
http://hi-luxoptics.com/product/riflescopes/malcolm-replica-scope-series/m6343216x/

[Johnny Boy]

Well, gentlemen, this is a wonderfully informative find for me this afternoon. Been sitting around in the evenings wondering what to do about the limited supply bullets for my F-Class rifle a 308 Savage FCP10. All I shoot is our club matches alternating between 600 and 800 yards.

When I logged in today, I was hoping to find information on two things:
- something along the lines of just a gallery load to get some trigger time. Oh boy did I find better.
- a heavy hunting bullet that would make that same rifle very "hog unfriendly" over some of the fields in the SC Lowcountry.

[pipehand]

Johnny Boy, I see that's your first post. Welcome to the forum.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Welcome to the fire Johnny Boy, your F Class background will hold you in good stead here.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Johnny: Welcome !

You have found the promised land for shooting Lead Boolits. Other types are welcome too.

As a F class shooter you can bring us all up to speed on what you do to make your gun hit at long ranges.

If you can figure out a load for Lyman 311299 that will perform well in your gun you will get to shoot alot more. (something about the cost of cast boolits that just makes it more fun.) Plus there's that pride in a job well done.

"DT hunter" the OP on this thread is having quite good luck at 1000 yds.

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

(something about the cost of cast boolits

Yessir! You'll go broke saving money here like I did, hahaha! Why am I Laughing???

[Artful]

Yessir! You'll go broke saving money here like I did, hahaha! Why am I Laughing???

I like laughter better than crying. :guntootsmiley:

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yer got a point there Artful!

[Johnny Boy]

Thanks for the welcome, Pipehand, 4 Fingers, Randy, et. al. I've just been lurking for about a year. Didn't want to jump in and bother folks until I had a feel for how things went. Happy to be here.

First of all, I love to learn new things. I mean really understand the what fors, how comes and why nots. I also love to make things work. Probably explains why I went into engineering and then on into teaching the same.

F-Class, long-range in general and the reloading to support that shooting appeals to me for the same reasons.

Now I have time to invest in learning how to cast something other than a shrimp net. Since I love to shoot and hunt, boolits seemed to be the thing. And no, it isn't so much the "cost savings". (Anymore than what I saved making furniture, though there is satisfaction in knowing you make it.) Will be nice to know you do have bullets to shoot as long as you've got the powder and primers that is.

First task is to setup a "casting shop". Been reading and "studying on it" for several months and now is the time to pull the trigger on it (very bad pun, sorry) and get it going.

So, I'll be listening, looking and learning. I am not shy about asking questions either.

Thanks again folks.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Good luck with it Johnny Boy.

[PAT303]

We have a 900 yard range next to ours, but they are hard to get along with. They only shoot prone (and actually got the range license changed so that prone is the only allowed position, preventing others from using it. They don't like people doing anything except shooting the two details of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots at the particular distance range they are shooting for the day. They are so hard to get along with, their members come to my range to run barrels in, work out loads, etc. Nearly all 'long range' shooting ranges in Australia are controlled by these clowns and they all seem to make it difficult to shoot anything other then their set match.
I'm glade it's not just me,I've always found the long range guys to be nothing more than *****,many changed the rules to block F class shooters too,the ranges that didn't are thriving,and the old guard wonder why ''thier'' sport is dying out. Pat

[PAT303]

I am one of those clowns,not from that club though,if you made the effort to join the club,along with a couple of mates,you would find a way to get along.
Mike.

Mike,I've tried at two clubs.I tried to get a Military shoot going at both and had a trial day at one,22 shooters turned up with some excellent ex mil rifles,22 against 6 and the 6 got scared and told us not to come back.You guys deserve your fate. Pat

[Mike H]

Pat
I belong to both the organisations being referred to,as I see it there are faults on both sides,in my opinion it would be better off as one group.For interests sake I shot Service Rifle for years,now shoot Match Rifle,FTR and F/class as well as attend the local SSAA range about every month.
Mike.

[Dthunter]

Just waiting for my days off!
I want to go shooting sooo bad!

[Dthunter]

Nobody else shooting long range with cast?
Come on guys, I'm sure there are a few. Its fun! Give it a try. Its
Not as hard as some shooters think.

[Lefty SRH]

Nobody else shooting long range with cast?
Come on guys, I'm sure there are a few. Its fun! Give it a try. Its
Not as hard as some shooters think.

I enjoy longrange shooting. But around here its not easy to get past 200yds without driving a good ways (2hrs plus one way) or paying AND driving to the range.

[Lefty SRH]

I plan on zeroing my newly mounted scope on my GSR with my current cast boolit. After everything is zeroed (and goes as planned) I will carry it to a 400yd range (as a guest) thats 2hrs away. I plan on carrying several rifles at that time also if I am going to drive that far to shoot.

[atr]

that load of 46 grains of IMR4831,,,,,seems like it would be a compressed load in a .308 case with a 200 gr boolit....I mean that much powder has to just about fill the case.

[Four Fingers of Death]

IMR4831 id similar to 4350 isn't it? That would be full or compressed I'm thinking which would work well.

[atr]

4350 is slightly faster than 4831....and I KNOW the a full charge of 4350 is a compressed load....so based on that I think it follows that the 4831 would also be compressed.....
I've used alot of 4831 in the 30-06 case which has alot more volume capacity than the .308 case.....for the .308 I go to the 4350
for .303 British I find the 4831 works really well but again that case has more volume capacity then the .308 case, and even so my .303 loads are compressed when using 4831

my old speer manual give 46 grains of 4831 at the starting load for a 200 gr Jacketed bullet
atr

[Dthunter]

IMR4831 id similar to 4350 isn't it? That would be full or compressed I'm thinking which would work well.


that load of 46 grains of IMR4831,,,,,seems like it would be a compressed load in a .308 case with a 200 gr boolit....I mean that much powder has to just about fill the case.

Hi Atr!

This boolit is seated only about 3/4 of the neck deep. Because I have seated it to engrave the rifling. The powder comes up to the bottom of the neck. About .1 of an inch room between the base of the boolet and the top of the powder.
In my Remington, neck sized cases, the charge does not become compressed untill 47.0 grains is used. This slow powder in this case seems ideal for this use. A softer, more gradual combustion (relatively speaking to IMR4350).
IMR 4350 worked well for me, but the perfect balance of load density/velocity/pressure/accuracy, was achieved by IMR4831.

This is the case for "MY" rifle, but other rifles with different manufacturing tolerances/loading techniques may yield different results.

[Lefty SRH]

I got a NOE 311299 mold in the mail today to try in my GSR .308. Hope to get some casted this weekend and shot in a couple of weeks.

[Johnny Boy]

Just entered the order for my NOE 311299. Probably will be a couple of weeks before I get out to the range. Looking forward to the change from the Nosler and SMK 175 bullets to these 200 grain boolits. Should be fun! and that's what it's all about!

[45 2.1]

Nobody else shooting long range with cast?
Come on guys, I'm sure there are a few. Its fun! Give it a try. Its
Not as hard as some shooters think.

A few of us already know that. We post what we did and got basically called liars by the theory people. I'm surprised they didn't start on you.


that load of 46 grains of IMR4831,,,,,seems like it would be a compressed load in a .308 case with a 200 gr boolit....I mean that much powder has to just about fill the case.

When you have a powder that gives an overly full or compressed load, it sometimes makes a large difference in accuracy if you drop tube the charge in instead of compressing it. You can actually get more powder in also doing that (if wanted). Surplus 7383 is a good example of that along with a few others.

[Dthunter]

[QUOTE=45 2.1;2298974]A few of us already know that. We post what we did and got basically called liars by the theory people. I'm surprised they didn't start on you.


I'm surprised as well! But frankly, I have the targets, velocities, range adjustments, weather conditions, etc. to back up "EVERYTHING" I do. This way when something great happens, I can actually repeat it, and share it with you guys.

I have done allot of shooting, and learning about cast boolet shooting, with the help of fellow shooters on this site. Its great to give back to the site, and hopefully you guys can achieve the same kind of satisfaction as I have had.

Take care 45 2.1

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lefty: I have that mould and it has been difficult to get good results from. You will have to run it very hot and keep it hot. Frosted boolits are usually the result but at least they are filled completely and on size. I have been pushing Al to make the same mould in Brass but he is resisting.

Mine drops WW alloy at .311/.2998 which just barely slide in the bore of my rifles. Problem I have is I get one or two good boolits out of every ten. The mould just doesn't have the mass in aluminum to hold enough heat to consistently drop good boolits.

Also I need to try adding some more tin to the mix.

I have played with it extensively and it is just being picky. But the good ones it does drop are exactly what I want. Size to .310 with GC and load.

When you figure yours out, do let me know what you did.

This boolit design has the potential to be the most accurate Cast Boolit for .30 cal. out there.

Randy

[Lefty SRH]

Lefty: I have that mould and it has been difficult to get good results from. You will have to run it very hot and keep it hot. Frosted boolits are usually the result but at least they are filled completely and on size. I have been pushing Al to make the same mould in Brass but he is resisting.

Mine drops WW alloy at .311/.2998 which just barely slide in the bore of my rifles. Problem I have is I get one or two good boolits out of every ten. The mould just doesn't have the mass in aluminum to hold enough heat to consistently drop good boolits.

Also I need to try adding some more tin to the mix.

I have played with it extensively and it is just being picky. But the good ones it does drop are exactly what I want. Size to .310 with GC and load.

When you figure yours out, do let me know what you did.

This boolit design has the potential to be the most accurate Cast Boolit for .30 cal. out there.

Randy

Just measuring the quick handful from my NOE clone mold, I am getting .300-.3005" on the nose. And .311-.3115" on the bands.
I am casting at 750* and I run the mold pretty quick to keep the heat, plus its a 4 cavity so that helps too. My alloy is a copper enriched which also has a little TIN and Antimony mixed in as bearing babbitt.

Randy, try turning up your alloy temp, if you use a 2C mold put it back on the hot plate after you pour it, and yes add a smidge of TIN.

[Neilsuper]

First off I’m new here and want to thank everyone here this is a great place to learn about casting. I realize this thread is a few years old now but I too have a Remington 700 VLS in 308 and have been working up a load with the Lyman 311299. On two different nights this week I have shot a five shot group just under 3/4 inch at 100 yards with IMR7828SSC. These are the only ten shots I have tried with this load so far but it does seem promising. I have only had a chance to chrony one round so far it showed 2361fps. Is anyone else using this powder?

[waco]

I have a pound of it and thought about trying it. I have had good luck with IMR 4831 and RL15 for higher velocity .308 cast loads.

[john.k]

One thing I found with the 299 shape Lyman,is you must use a metal hard enough to keep the point straight.I started with too soft,and it was hopeless.And for harder metal,I had to buy commercial at very high cost for mostly lead,IMHO.The bullet is a lot more pointed than it seems in the Lyman book.But never had any problem with fillout,just bullets sticking worse than any iron mold I have................EDIT&OT........Glad for the info on the Service Range crowd........Im thinking of moving out to the sticks,and one spot was next to a QRA range........seems it would be useless........and so I would need enough land to shoot on...........hopefully not surrounded by greenies.

[Neilsuper]

Right now I’m using federal large rifle primers any thoughts on switching to magnum primers?

[Whiterabbit]

Definitely! I have data on switching. In somee cases, I found that mag primers tightened groups. In others, I found it loosened groups. So that’s something you can experimentally derive quite easily, and see if there is a benefit.

However, I have also found that in nearly all cases (that I have measured), mag rimers will loosen up velocity SD’s. So while the mag primers may tighten groups for shooting at ranges where bullet drop is a non issue, when you start to worry about your velocity uniformity for longer range shooting, mag primers may not be the right answer.

Ultimately, I suggest you try it yourself. Won’t take more than 20 rounds. Shoot 20 into one group over a chrono, then load and shoot 20 using mag primers into one group over a chrono. If you have stastically significant results (t-test more than 95% confidence), you have a winner. My bet is that you’ll be no more than 70% confident (statistically) in the result, meaning no difference. Unless you get something catastrophic like a 2 inch rifle going to 5 inches.