Working on a new range

[Gussy]

I have been wanting to get a bench and shooting range set up but most of my land is vertical. I have a temporary 100 yd range with no bench (pickup hood). I have been studying the place for 3 years trying to figure out how to get a 200 and 300 yard target.

Well sunday I got out the range finder and started walking. After about 10 trips through the brush around the hill I thought I might have a chance.

I got out the chain saw and started dropping the dredded hawthorn brush. If you haven't been around the stuff, it grows 30' plus high and has 1-1 1/2" thorns. The base of the trunk is usually full of suckers that pop the chain off the saw (and spear you at every chance). After 2 hours, I looked like I'd had a cat fight and lost. Both arms had a lot of scratches and several leaks. BUT, the big brush was mostly down. This is a better job for winter when I wear insulated, heavy coveralls to protect the body!!

I'm still not sure what I have, but it looks encouraging. I have to get the chain back on the saw and have another go at it. After that, I have to start the D4 and move some downed brush and clear out some small underbrush.

What it's looking like is I'll have a good 100 yd target and a 180-200 yd target. After that, it's the long trip but I can put a 300 yd target on the other side of the canyon. To get to it is a 1/4 mile up the canyon on my side and back down an old road on the other. No easy path straight through as it is very vertical.

More good news. After getting the brush down I can see a path to set up several gongs. I have 200 and 300 now but they will have to be moved. If it works out, I may be able to set up 400 and 500 yd gongs. It's going to be major work and will probably take a year to get it done.

Should have it done by the time I retire and have time to use it.

[ktw]

If you have a D4 it would probably be more effective to push the hawthorn over prior to cutting it down. Leaving them uncut allows you to get more leverage on the stump by pushing higher on the stem. Taking out the whole tree, stump and all, should seriously reduce the stump sprout problems in the future.

-ktw

[Gussy]

Pushing the hawthorn over is not possilbe. It is on a steep hillside. To steep for the Cat do do any work. I could end up with a Cat in the creek bottom and have a REAL problem. I'm considering taking a spray bottle of straight Roundup and treating the stumps as I cut. Next option is spraying in the sring when they sprout. I have had good luck doing that, but it takes 2 years to get the job done. If it's not raining on Sun., I'll take another shot at it. I may actually be able to get a target location then and know for sure what I have.

[txbirdman]

Gussy,

I don't know if Roundup will work or not but if you can get your hands on some Remedy it certainly will. I about 12 oz with 5 gallons of water for my sprayer and it kills Texas mesquites like nothing else will. BTW mix in a cup of liquid clothes detergent for a surfactant.

Good luck

[Pilgrim]

Gussy - I was clearing out some poplars and decided to take every other tree out the first time around. After cutting them down, I painted the stumps with straight roundup. Not only did it kill the cut trees, it killed all of the others as well. Apparently there was some communication between roots and that is all it takes! Pilgrim

[Bret4207]

SHEEP! YOU NEED SHEEP!!! (Standby for a Carpetman response)

[Shepherd2]

When I'm cleaning out a brushy area I send the sheep in first to clean out the under brush. They do a super job of openning things up so you can move around much easier. If I had goats I'd use them. They are much better than sheep. Leave goats in long enough and they'll turn an area into a desert. They'll even kill trees by stripping off all the bark they can reach.

I carry a spray bottle of 50/50 Round Up/ kerosene with me when I'm clearing brush. Anything I cut gets sprayed. The kerosene is supposed to thin the Round Up so it penetrates better. I don't know if that's true or not but the stuff I spray dies. The spray bottles go bad pretty quick but for me they are more convenient and only $1 at WalMart.

[monadnock#5]

There are several different strengths of Roundup on the market. If you want to kill a stump dead, get the concentrate. You'll know if you've got the right stuff by the price, about $60 a gallon IIRC. Take a rechargeable drill and bore several holes down into the stump and fill them with the concentrate. The only plant that I've found that the concentrate won't work on is Japanese Knotweed. Horrible stuff. It gets sick, but it won't die.

[Shepherd2]

The agricultural Round Up concentrate runs about $100 a gallon around here. For some reason unknown to me and many others you can buy a 2 1/2 gallon jug for $150. I buy the big jugs because I'll use it up in a couple years and it's way cheaper.

The only thing I've found that I use straight RU on is Osage Orange or hedge as it's called around here. The RU/kerosene mix doesn't get it on the bigger stumps.

[medic44]

Back in the late 70's and early 80's I worked for a 15000 acre farm that Monsanto was using for testing. They states that if you wanted the best kill that you should mix it according to the directions. If the salts in Round-up are to concentrated it will not absorb at the cellular level through osmosis. they also stated that Round-up was basicly the same thing as 2-4-d but formulated w/ water so that it would biodegrade. Once it is mixed and opened to the air it has a short shelf life. So only mix what you will use in a day or two.

[JeffinNZ]

What you REALLY need is a "Daisy Cutter" bomb!!!!!!!

[JSH]

I don't know where you fellows are gettimg your info on roundup. I worked for an Ag company in the fertilizer and chemical side for almost 20 years. I have sprayed literally thousands of gallons of roundup. Yes it will kill some "woody" plants at times, that would be more by luck and conditions than anything. 24D is NOT the same as round up. Roundup is no selective and will kill broad leaf and grasses where as your 24D family will only kill broad leaf. Yes 24D may kill young grasses or if it kills established grasses you are wayyyyyyyyy over recommeneded rates and just wasting it for the $.
The AG grade usually bulk looks to be priced higher than what you see at the home centers in gallons and 2 1/2's. Look at how much active ingrediants there are in the "cheaper" stuff. The $100 a gallon should cover about 4 acres at 1 qt per acre. The others you mention would probaly only cover a few thousand square feet. The biggest thing on the rounup that is a rip off is the little squirt bottles. Kind of like the pre mixed anti freeze, you are paying for water in both.

Remedy is a good product for trees, it just never got used much around here until lateley. Tordon22K and Tordon RTU is tops for killing trees and can be used in a variety of ways. If you have a really big tree you want to kill ring it in the fall when sap is going down . Appply tordon all the way around on the cut, that sucker won't be around next spring. I have seen some really huge hedge trees killed this way. Better off to kill the tree first then push out with a dozer, beats all thos roots going to little trees for the next dozen years or so.
A note for the Tordon22K and RTU. The 22K is labled for broadleaf and small brush. Yes it is pricey, but it will kill trees as it is a more concentrated and intnded to dilute with water for application on pastures and brome fields. Do not drill holes in a stump to apply. It should be applied to the fresh cut ASAP. It won't work on stumps that were cut and allowed to glazed over with sap and dry. A lot of guys here that clear pasture in the fall just miz it in with chain saw oil and have good luck that way. A fellow I know that clears pasture in about 3 staes uses about 2000 gallons a year of Tordon 22K with his shear on his Bob Cat. I helped him make up a a couple of spray nozzles on the shear bar so it sprays the stump when he is done, he doesn't miss any this way. You guys that are cleaning up some pasture, don't cut them and leave them lay and think you can come back and find the stump in a few hours. Cut and spry righ then and there so you don't miss any. I cleared about 120 acres when I was first out of HS. Funny how a hedge tree can roll quite a ways on flat ground, then you spend 30 minutes trying to find the darn stump,lol.
Jeff

[Shepherd2]

JSH - Check the instruction booklet that is attached to each jug of Roundup. It lists quite a few varieties of woody plants and trees that Roundup is effective on. Most only need to be sprayed with a 1% to 2% solution. I use a 1.5% solution on multiflora rose, poison ivy, Virginia creeper, grape vine etc. and it works everytime.

I agree with you about spraying as soon as you cut. I try to leave the trunk of whatever I cut right by the stump so I can find it to spray it. You'd think the stump would be right there but sometimes you walk around in circles trying to find it. I keep count of how many stumps I have to spray so I don't miss any. I had a neighbor that went back a couple days after cutting and sprayed the stumps he could find. The ones he missed sprouted and so did the ones he sprayed.

[JSH]

Chuck maybe somthing to do with the part of the country we are in? RU, won't touch multi floral rose, poisin ivy or buck brush around here, I have tried it. I have never tried it on stumps, will give that a try on somthing I am not real serious about. The damn honey locust trees are about to take over my place. Every time I plow the garden I tear up more roots. I cut 5 down a few years back and used 22K on them, must have killed 15-20 more trees.
I have sprayed a bunch of wild grapes at work with different stuff, nothing did much more than knock the leaves off. I ended up cutting them off and using 22K on them, some were at least 3" across.
Jeff

[Crash_Corrigan]

I had 10.5 acres of abandoned orchard in Vermont on which I had a log cabin. One acre was lawn and the rest a mess of up to 5" trunked trees and assorted brushy and scraggly areas. I decided to get some electric wire fencing and a goat. I fenced off 25'x100' area and let loose the goat. He loved it. In about a few weeks I noticed a big improvment. I got two more goats and fenced in 8 acres of brush. IN 8 MONTHS THEY CLEARED IF OFF COMPLETELY!. As a bonus I had two pregnant goats. Then two kids and lots of goat milk. When I finally decided to sell out and go west I was able to sell the property easily and found new homes for the goats. I do miss the fresh eggs from the chickens but this is Vagas.

[monadnock#5]

The instructions for boring stumps and filling the holes with concentrate can also be found in the booklet. I had a "wild rose" bush that went bonkers and climbed a tree, and when it ran out of tree it intertwined with itself and climbed 15 ft. more. I lopped the vines a foot off the ground, drilled 5/16 holes in each, and filled with the concentrate. Foam and froth boiled out of the holes for three days thereafter, and killed the root system dead.

[KYCaster]

I'm not a big fan of Roundup. I tried it to control grass and weeds in a gravel driveway with no success. After several years of futile attempts, all I managed to kill was a few tomato plants about 30 yds. away from where I was spraying. Spring, summer, fall, hot, cool, dry, damp....didn't make any difference....no luck.

I finally called the customer service number on one of the containers and talked to a nice young lady about my problem......

NYL: "What kind of plants are you trying to kill?"

ME: "Dandilion."

NYL: "That's on our hard to kill list."

ME: "White clover."

NYL: "That's also on our hard to kill list."

ME: "Two different kinds of plantains."

NYL: "Ummm....those are on our hard to kill list too."

ME: "Peppercorn....chickweed....red clover....English ivy....poison ivy....sour grass...chicory....fox grapes...!!!!!!!!!

NYL: "Well, we don't recommend Roundup for poison ivy control and all those others are on our hard to kill list. I'm sorry you've had a problem with our product and I'll be happy to send you a complimentary sample of Roundup."

ME: "Is it any different than the product I bought at Lowe's, Home Depot, Southern States or Tractor Supply?"

NYL: "No, the only difference is in the concentration percentage and the packaging."


I declined her offer and started using salt water instead....does a great job on most leafy green stuff....somebody told me not to use it cause it polutes the environment....WHAT???....65% of the planet is not covered in Roundup!!!

I just recently heard about using vinegar for weed control....gonna look into that..


Jerry

[Gussy]

Update......
3 hours and 2 tanks of gas in the chain saw reduced the remaining hawthorn to ground level.

The good news is I do have a lane, about 12' wide, between the big pines to 200 yds. The bad news is my target frame may have to be 10' in the air!! I have partially cleared an old skid trail. If conditions are right, I will start the D4 and push that road out another 75 yds to where the target will be. At least it will be on a part of the hill that has less slope. I don't know how deep the soil is there, but if it is fairly deep, I may be able to push up a mound. If there's enough dirt, I may get the target level to where I can reach it without a ladder.

I designed a target holder last night which would allow me to slip target frames in from the bottom. If I can get enough dirt mounded up, my problem will be solved.

I also have a lane to 300 yds on the other side of the canyon. I will have to do some redneck tree trimming. There's 2 large old dead branches hanging in the way. The problem is they are at least 30' up a big old pine. I figure about 1 or 2 boxes of .22 hollow points will remove them. Maybe a couple of shots with the 222 or 22 hornet??

........To be continued.....

[medic44]

For my 400 yd range I made a dirt pile at 400 yds but at the shooting station I was too low to see the target. Made a large pile at the shooting station 25 ft high then took 4 power poles and made a 25 ft high tower on top for a total of 50 ft of elevation. Now I have a good angle and a nice deer stand.

For your redneck tree triming 50 cal muzzel loader works great:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Gussy]

Range construction page 3

Well, 8 hours of cat and excavator work and I have a nice road to the 200 yd target area. Note the word target "area".

I pushed the brush off and extended the road to where the 200 yd target should be. I parked the excavator (small machine, 6000 lb size) at the end of the road, extended the boom horizontally. I went to the future bench site and had 200 yds to the bucket.

The problem: I could just see the bucket. The target should be about 4' higher than the bucket and another 6' out to center it in the shooting lane. If you were to drop a plumb bob from that point, it would be 30-40' to the ground.

My solution (I think) is to build a portable target holder. The end of that road is on 25+ ft of fill and will settle some so I will need to refill the area. The target holder will be a cantilivered/counter weighted pivoting arm up about 8'. I can pivot it back to the road to change targets and then reposition it.