Ruger Vaquero - Did I get Lucky?

[JeffG]

Today I did some trading with some good friends that own a pawn shop and picked up a new Ruger Vaquero in stainless, .45 LC. Sweet action on this thing. Anyway, after reading the horror stories about undersized cylinders, etc on the forum, I took it to the garage and slugged each cylinder, then the entire length of the barrel followed by just the muzzle with some .454 RB I'd cast years ago. What I ended up with surprised me a bit. The cylinders measured between .451 and .4515, with the groove diameter at muzzle and length of barrel being .450. That seems to me to be pretty good, and theoretically should play nicely with cast boolit sized at .452? I ordered the Lee 90358 mold and plan to use BP with it. I like the smoke and boom of black.

Did I just get lucky on these dimensions or do you think that Ruger of recent manufacture have been making changes after all the squealing?

[jmort]

If it is a "New Vaquero" then no big surprise. If it is an "Old Vaquero", then it is close to a miracle.

[JeffG]

Yep, it is the New Vaquero. Well that just tickles me pink. Ordered RCBS dies and Starline brass, just need to get some primers tomorrow and wait a couple weeks for stuff to show up then play time.

[DougGuy]

+1 on what jmortimer said. Two digit prefix serial number = Original Model Vaquero. Three digit prefix = New Vaquero. OM Vaquero is rated for the Ruger Only loads in the manuals, 30,000psi, but the New Vaquero is only rated to 23,000psi .45 ACP +P pressure and is NOT SAFE with loads listed in the Ruger Only secion of current reloading manuals.

As far as the dimensions go, the softer the boolit the more forgiving it is of being fired through tight cylinder throats or a tight barrel at the threaded part.

[JeffG]

Thanks Doug, good to know on the pressure values. I did some digging after your comment and it explains some things I've been seeing in some Loading Manuals, which I expect would have eventually confused me. Thanks

[John Boy]

but the New Vaquero is only rated to 23,000psi I believe the reduction is due to the thinner frame

[DougGuy]

Yes exactly. The New Vaquero is a medium frame, as well as the New Model Flattop, they have thinner smaller frame dimensions and also smaller diameter cylinders.

Now.. To further add (or maybe subtract) to or from the confusion, since there were so many old Colt, S&W and clones made on the standard Colt SAA frame and cylinder size which cannot handle +P pressure, SAAMI never acknowledged or published any +P specs for the .45 Colt because none of the guns chambered for it were safe with anything over 14,000cups (psi for the sake of discussion).

So because of that we have this slight void in the load data between 14,000psi and the low end of the Ruger Only loads which start about where the New Vaquero reaches it's pressure ceiling. Any standard pressure .45 Colt load would be safe in the NV, but you will have to do some legwork to find loads that will take the NV into the +P 45 ACP pressures without getting into the downloaded below minimum charge recommendations for the stronger Blackhawk, T/C and OM Vaquero load data.

Let's say for example that you have a 260gr LSWC boolit, and you look at the data for Ruger Only loads using H110 powder. Let's say (again, for example only) that the recommended starting charge weight is 20gr with 24,000psi listed in the data. This is already over the 23,000psi limit, and H110 is said that it can be quite dangerous loaded below minimum charge weights because ignition can be erratic and unpredictable. This happens with slow burning powder when the load density in the case goes below a certain percent, most will agree 75% is about the cutoff point. Anything below this amount exposes a greater area of powder to the flash of the primer and it can ignite very quickly and can cause an extreme spike in pressure. In short, it is quite possible to claymore a perfectly good revolver simply by going under the minimum recommended charge weight with certain powders.

There are reputable sources for decent and tested loads, they just won't be published in print because of liability but you can hunt for stuff like John Taffin's .45 Colt loads, quite a few threads on this forum will reveal some load data that will work, handloads.com has some.

If you shoot factory only loads in your New Vaquero, none of this discussion is necessary. If you reload, knowing the limitations is key to saving one's grits...
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I have a pet project in the works, I want one of the Talo New Vaquero models in .45 ACP which is the same as yours but chambered for the ACP case. I want to shorten .45 Colt brass to 1.160" so there is less case capacity which will increase the density of the powder, and I want to develop loads for it which will take advantage of the medium velocity .45 Colt and allow the use of more boolit types than the .45 ACP will allow, and it will allow collet or roll crimp instead of headspacing on the case mouth. I want to call it the .45 Ruger Special. All that is necessary for a conversion like this, is to have a custom reamer made which will rechamber the cylinder, and then shorten some .45 Colt brass, and develop some loads.

Almost the same thing could be done using .45 Schofield brass but it's case length is .060" shorter than my chosen measurement of 1.160" which I feel will hit a sweet spot in the case density ratio.

This project would take full advantage of the medium frame Ruger and provide a significant advantage over the .45 ACP cartridge, staying within the .45 ACP +P pressure ceiling. It would be fun to shoot, not punishing on recoil, it would be accurate and consistent, and it would still pack enough wallop to send hard cast wide meplat boolits at hunting velocities for deer and bear in the lower 48 states.

Edit: Just noticed this is in the Black Powder Cartridge board, my apologies for writin' a book in the wrong thread..

[Piedmont]

DougGuy, I'm always thinking about stuff like this too and have considered getting a cylinder reamed to .45 Schofield myself. In my opinion it would be smarter to use Schofield cases and not go .060" shorter. Trimming is a collosal pain. My friend gave me a Schofield case just to get the mental juices flowing and it would be sweet. Very balanced.

I am about coming to the conclusion that if we want to be practical it makes most sense to get a custom mold made with a short nose and use the cheaper factory long cases and the guns chambered for them. I did this with a wadcutter mold for the .45 Colt. Still, to me, the best looking revolver cartridges are .45 AR, .44 Russian, and .45 Schofield, so don't let me put a blanket on your project.

My angle on these is to never push the velocity envelope, but rather to enjoy the smaller case capacity for more efficient powder burning and still have a large bore revolver. But I am completely happy with factory standard .45 ACP ballistics for everything I need a handgun for (which means I don't hunt medium/big game with a handgun).

In case you haven't thought of it, you could have the back of your proposed .45 ACP cylinder milled to accept the .45 Auto Rim cartridge. It will still work with ACPs because you are leaving the shoulder in the chamber. This would give you the ability to roll crimp heavier SWCs for your deer and bear. The AR loaded to 23,000 psi will do what a .45 Colt will do at standard pressures with the 250-260 grain bullets.

[JeffG]

DougGuy, at this point, I'm expecting to start with 2F BP, cast the 255g projectile and not push the thing pressure wise, not trying to prove anything, just have safe fun. I may try it with Unique at a point probably staying below 8 grains. I haven't bought any factory ammo for it and when you look on the local gun shop shelf and they want 36-39 bucks for 20 rounds, don't plan too.

Have a good Memorial Day all! The flags are out and waving.

['74 sharps]

DougGuy, at this point, I'm expecting to start with 2F BP, cast the 255g projectile and not push the thing pressure wise, not trying to prove anything, just have safe fun. I may try it with Unique at a point probably staying below 8 grains. I haven't bought any factory ammo for it and when you look on the local gun shop shelf and they want 36-39 bucks for 20 rounds, don't plan too.

Have a good Memorial Day all! The flags are out and waving.


I've put 5000 rounds of 2f through my Colt SAA 45, and you will be amazed at how potent the full case of bp with a 250gr bullet is. Did try smokeless, and just didn't seem like it was the right powder for that type of pistol.

[TXGunNut]

I've put 5000 rounds of 2f through my Colt SAA 45, and you will be amazed at how potent the full case of bp with a 250gr bullet is. Did try smokeless, and just didn't seem like it was the right powder for that type of pistol.

Agreed, loaded up some KIK FFFg awhile back just for grins in a Uberti in 45 Colt and enjoyed it so much I bought a Cimmaron so I'd have twice the fun! Have a NIB Colt around here and doubt it will see any SP either. There's something about that big boom and a cloud of blue smoke.