In search

[dk17hmr]

I will be turning 21 at the end of next month, meaning in MI I will be of legal age to take the CCW course, and will be able to carry a concealed weapon when all the paper work goes through.

I already own a Springfield 1911 and a CZ-52, neither of which will fit the role I am looking for in a handgun. The 1911 is to big for me to conceal, I am not a big guy only about 165 pounds coming out of the shower. The CZ although crude works, but it has failed me a few times while shooting, the 7.62x25 and with the conversion barrel in 9mm.

I am not a big fan of 9mm's, I dont know why I just dont really care for the caliber. I was thinkin .40 caliber minimum.

Anyone have a suggestion?

Small, medium caliber, lightweight, you all know the drill.

[9.3X62AL]

Not sure if you're asking for caliber or platform recommendations here, but you'll likely get a lot of both--so I'll weigh in.

Caliber--Both the 40 S&W and 45 ACP have proven track records as felon repellant. The 9mm can be quite good if full-power ammunition is selected. You don't sound interested in revolvers, but the 357 Magnum is another fine stopper.

Platform--It sounds like you are pointed toward compact or sub-compact autopistols. There is nothing wrong with those, although my personal preferences argue against them--big hands aren't the best for getting good work from small handguns. I would try to rent or borrow compact Glock designs in the caliber you select--they offer very light weight, reasonable cost, excellent reliability, and readily available spare magazines. I'm not real fond of pocket pistols like the Walther PP-series due to caliber weakness, although good full-power ammunition improves their performance. If a pocket pistol is desired, one of the Makarov examples is probably best of breed. The caliber strength is borderline, but the system reliability is superb in my example--and its size is about the smallest I can shoot well.

In 357 Magnum, the smaller J-frame S&Ws can be fierce to operate, one of that company's 2.5" or 3" K-frames would be my preference. Not lightweight, but a lot more tractable to run. Ditto the Ruger SP-101, a better 357 choice than the J-frames (my opinion). The SP-101 is a GREAT concealment revolver, and can digest full-power 357 Magnum loads quite well. You'll get tired of recoil long before it ever tires of pressure.

[NVcurmudgeon]

What Al said with his great CCW experience. After three years of legal CCW, I have come to think we all need at least two carry guns. I can carry a full-size 1911 or an Ultra Compact 9mm Springfield in a pancake holster under an untucked shirt or jacket even though I weigh only 130. ( Small shirts are too tight, so I wear mediums which are comfortably loose on me.) I have to be untucked all summer, but the memory of my mother threatening to sew lace on my shirttails haunts me. For next summer a small revolver in a pocket or IWB holster might be better. You will probably find that some wardrobe modifications are necessary. Pocket holsters=bigger pockets, IWB=bigger waist, etc. Whoever said after a few years of CCW you will have a box full of no longer used holsters spake verily.

[Lloyd Smale]

I mostly carry 1911s but its tough to beat a j frame smith 38

[dmbassking]

If I had to pick one carry auto, I'd go for a kahr. While I was working in a gun shop in SoCal (not turners, but I won't get into that in case they have some fans on this board) I had both P40 and P45 pass through my hands. Both were very compact for what they were cambered in, and for my money it would be the 45. It's probably the smallest 45 I have been able to try out. It was pretty comfortable to shoot considering how light it was

-Mike

[monadnock#5]

Check out the Glock Mod. 27, for all the reasons 9.3X62AL cited above. I've spent several pleasant sunny afternoons double tapping full size felon targets without a hitch. My SP-101 in .357 is a very good gun, but if you get one, take a .22 along on range day. The .22 is fired after shooting the SP-101 to get rid of the flinch.

[Johnch]

Here is my $.02 , for what it is worth

I am 5' 10" and weigh 1/2+ again more than you do
So I can conceal about anything

I have had a CCW for several years
I also am not a huge fan of the 9mm
But I carry one most of the time , with good ammo at spitting distance , it will do the job
Because I found a Kel Tec pistol is small enought to carry and not weigh me down , a Kar would be another good choice

I have or had a wide aray of choices
I will sometimes carry a Sig 229 in 40
Great gun , but the size and weight cause it to stay in the safe most of the time

A 1911 Officers model with a AL frame was a great gun
But I have isues with carrying a single action pistol

I have a Taures 85
Easy to carry , but thicker than the the 9mm and I have not found "THE" holster yeat

Tryed a compact Glock
My meat hooks and the choped off frame don't work

Had a Sig P230
Great pistol
Didn't have a chance to carry it much ..................... with a CCW at least
But had some bills that HAD to be paid
I have looked at a P232 a few times

I have a Bereta 32 Tom Cat
Drops in my coat pocket ......Oh so easy
But even with good ammo
The stoping power is not what I would preferr

22LR and 25 ACP offer minimal stoping power
But are better than nothing

Not sure how Mi dose their CCW permits
But if I had it to do again , I would borrow and carry a couple of different pistols far a week or 2
Carry them and see what you think

The Kel Tec has a pocket clip
As I go out the door , 9 times out of 10
I stick it in my pants pocket


What ever you choise
Practice with it , panic drills
I have seen 2 guns droped out of poor/cheap holsters
So get something decent

John

[crazy mark]

Having had a CCW for over 10 years I carry the following at different times of the year:
1911 45 ACP
Kel-Tec 32 ACP
Rossi 971 357 Mag
Polish Tok 7.62 x 25
Davis derringer 22 Mag
Colt PPS in 38 S&W
I'm 6' and weight runs between 250-270 so its pretty easy to hide what ever under a long tailed shirt. I also wear longer jackets in the winter. Even wear a fanny pack at times. The Kel-Tec and Davis fit in the pocket the easiest. I have been known to also carry a RBH in a vertical shoulder holster under a Coast Guard foul weather jacket that was 1-2 sizes to big. Mark

[Dale53]

My two carry guns are:
1 - J Frame Smith Airweight in .38 Special. Carry ammo is 125 gr H.P. factory.
2 - Kimber CDP II in .45 ACP with Federal Hydr-Shok 230 gr ammo.

If I need a "drop in the pocket" I use the "J" Frame Smith.

My preferred carry piece is the Kimber in a belt slide or IWB holster. Can carry all day with comfort and "easy at hand".

The most important thing is to practice using the clothes and holster you regularly carry. In other words, REAL practice with full loads in realistic settings. And LOTS of practice with the weapon of choice. Did I mention LOTS of practice?

Dale53

[Bret4207]

If it was me, I'd get a j-frame S+Win 38 first. I like the Airwieght Bodyguard. Then if I wanted an auto I'd play with every peice I could find till I found something I felt comfortable with. I like my Astra Constable 380. It's like a PPK. Double action is nice. But I also like my Star PD 45. Both are availble for cheap on the used market. I don't want to start another war, but many of the 9mm's I have handled are just BIG. If I have to carry something the size of a 45, I'll carry a 45. High pressure, double stack mag, yaeah, yeah, yeah. I know, but many are still BIG.

Another option would be a Charter Bull Dog. Yup, only 5 rounds, but if you steer clear of crack houses and meth labs just how much firepower do you need?

I think you need to weigh a couple things out- WHY are you going to carry and WHERE are you going to carry? Yeah, you carry because you CAN. Where you go when carrying is the big thing. If you're one of these guys that wants to carry so you can feel more secure going places you normally wouldn't, then I'd question that logic. If I recall right, you live in a fairly rural area and will carry more for conveinience than fighting off biker gangs. A 38 in your pocket is handy for skunks, coyotes, cats, rats, etc. If you live in an area where personal protection s a very real issue then you need to think a bit differently. If thats the case, just try to remember that any action you take has very, very real and serious consequences. Life is no video game.

[ebner glocken]

I live in an odd area, we have those rural area things (coyotes, cats, skunks..etc) but also some urban problems. Missouri is the meth capitol and the area I live in has the highest concentration of the associated problems.

For summer I have a steel frame j-smith that I don't carry much, I prefer my taurus 85 lightweight for summerwear. I just bought a 605 taurus a week or two ago....jury is still out on that one. Until I bought the j-smith I carried a bersa thunderer .380 much of the time, only issue I had was power (yes, I carried it with cor-bon).

In winter when more clothes can be worn I have a galco FLECH high ride with a glock 19. It's light, holds 15, and can be hidden under a loose sweatshirt; a couple of mags in a jacket pocket and I have 45 rounds of power. Take your pick of some of the better 9 ammo, not all but alot of it is good. If I'm somewhere I can keep a jacket on my 1911 in a galco miami classic is all I'll ever need, just have to wear alot of clothes to hide.

[BD]

I've been carrying on and off for about 30 years. The last 12 years nearly all the time. Here's my 2 cents: Pretty much anyone, wearing any sort of "cover" garment can conceal a 1911 in a good IWB holster using a good belt. I have for years. However if you're determined to carry all the time there'll be times when a j-frame .38 in a pocket holster is a necessary alternative.

When up north, or during cold weather, I carry a 4" 1911 with a bobtail grip in a milt sparks versa max II. I've carried a 5" 1911 and a 3" 1911 and sort of settled into the 4" gun as "just right". I've only been "made" in this rig once, by my daughter who was giving me a bear hug at the time.

The problem comes when what you have to do during the day would either expose the IWB carry, or make it very uncomfortable. For me these situations include:

Very hot weather when I might be working without a shirt, or feeling like I should tuck in my T-shirt or polo shirt;

A situation where I might need to change my clothes around other workers, such as spraying foam or paint, working in the water, or doing a quick change out of grubby gear to meet my wife after work;

situations in which I'd need to put on my tool belt, crawl around in the attic/crawlspace/mechanical closet with a building inspector, or put on a lifejacket.

All of these activities make the IWB 1911 awkward or uncomfortable. But, a j-frame dropped in my right front pocket works just fine. I've never been "made" carrying this way. It's a personal choice you have to sort of work your way into, this is just what works for me.

One last piece of advice: Stay out of situations which might lead to conflict and if you know you're in a bad situation that can't be avoided, bring a long gun and keep it close by. Let the other folks around you know as well so they have a fair chance to prepare or clear out if they want to. It really sucks to be unwittingly drawn into someone elses tragedy, and it's not something you should ever do to another person.

BD

[AnthonyB]

A Kahr P-9 customized into the "Covert" configuration slips into a front pocket much easier than the bulkier Smith and goes with me everywhere I'm allowed to carry. With 115 or 124 JHPs I get over 1200fps, which is my personal velocity ceiling. If I need more power I'll go to a larger caliber rather than try for more velocity. I'll sometimes carry a 4 inch 1911 in colder weather. Tony

[BD]

Truely "pocket sized" 9mms are a relatively recent developement and may be ideal for pocket carry. I haven't had the opportunity to try one as yet. I did shoot one of the earlier Kahr 9mms but i wasn't happy with the way it wanted to sit in my pocket. The grip frame seemed to want to peek out all the time. I was never real comfortable with the .380 as a defensive round, but I picked up a P-3AT the other day and that is one small, flat pistol. I have no idea how they are to shoot though.
BD
BD

[Powderpacker]

If you're one of these guys that wants to carry so you can feel more secure going places you normally wouldn't, then I'd question that logic. - - - If you live in an area where personal protection s a very real issue then you need to think a bit differently. If thats the case, just try to remember that any action you take has very, very real and serious consequences. Life is no video game.
The most important points made in this discussion!

Also, any gun you have with you when you need it, even a .22, has more stopping power than that mega-mag you left in the truck.

[Ghugly]

If you enjoy shooting your Springfield, and it is reliable, you might want to reconsider. I thought the 1911 was too big to use as a CCW under light clothes until I picked up a Bianchi IWB holster (I'm not promoting Bianchi, it's just what I happened to buy). I've found that the 1911 is quite comfortable and concealable.

My personal opinion, for what little it's worth, is that, if it is reasonable, you should carry what you shoot. It seems to me that it's worth a little inconvenience to have your trusty, old, friendly pistol, that you enjoy shooting, at your side, rather than some fancy, lightweight, easy to hide, newcomer, that you are not really comfortable with.

On the one and only occasion that I had reason to draw for defense, I walked around the side of my house and was charged by two, full grown, German Shepperds. I still have no idea where they came from. The Makarov, that I carried at the time, appeared in my hand like a magic trick and the dogs suddenly stopped, turned, and ran.

Is the Makarov the perfect CCW? Probably not. But, at that time it is what I was shooting a lot. So, it was the perfect CCW for me.

[dk17hmr]

My main purpose of getting a CCW is so I wont need to get a purchasing permit when I find a handgun I want, I can show them my green card and purchase it.

But my day to day finds me in all kinds of places, from state land small game hunting to picking up materials at Home Depot in Flint. I am not the paraniod type, and so far I have never been in a situation where a weapon was needed but you never know.

I do live in a fairly rural area and often have rifle in my truck for varmints and other critters most of the time.

My dad has a Kahr 9mm that I like except for the 9mm part, just not a fan. I will be lookin at 3" 1911's, Kahr 40's or 45's, and snub nose 38/357's.

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to Bret's text. CCW does NOT make you larger than your environment, and should not be undertaken to access environments perceived to be unsafe to unarmed occupants. The environment is STILL UNSAFE, and is best avoided. People who enter and occupy unsafe environments--soldiers, Marines, police SWAT teams--tend to be equipped with rifles, machine guns, grenades of varying types--you get the idea.

Hip holsters can be a PITA while seated in a car, esp. for driver/right-handers. The sidearm is buried in the seat junction right there with the seat belt buckle. For a time I did a LOT of vehicle surveillance duty, and a shoulder rig is a LOT easier to access quickly while seated in a car than is a hip rig.

[MtGun44]

The first rule of a gunfight is "Have a gun". :-D

Caliber is not as critical as having a gun.

Be able to hit with whatever you choose.

Any semiauto must shoot at least 50 rds (preferebly a couple
hundred, but top qual self defense ammo is EXPENSIVE) in
reliablility check. This is critical and often overlooked.

I'm sitting in a McDonald's right now in shorts and a T-shirt with a
S&W scandium/titanium .38 J-frame in a IWB on right side, no sweat
under just a loose Tshirt. Like to use their free WiFi while getting a
Sunday lunch.

When I can wear an hawiian shirt or more winter gear (vests are great)
I use a lightwt Colt stainless commander in .45ACP, IWB strongside.
I shoot a lot of IPSC and are most comfortable with a 1911 pattern.

When I just can't figure out a way, my KelTek P3AT (.380 ACP) is
incredibly small, flat and light. Really works in a pocket holster or
tiny fanny pack when bicycling. Not a powerhouse, but meets the
first rule very well and has been 100% reliable.

Be careful, the best way to ensure a good outcome in a gunfight is
to avoid it if at all possible. Embarrasment heals much faster than
a bullet wound. Standing up "for your principle" sounds great, but
in real life you need to think hard whether tucking in your tail and
leaving is smarter than fighting when you may have to die or kill
for the principle. Fight when you must, leave or avoid otherwise.
CCW lets you choose.

Bill

[Charley]

10 plus years of concealed carry. I'm 6'3", 240 pounds. My carry guns have come to this... A Para P-12 is my primary carry gun. When I need something a bit more discreet, a Kel-Tec P-11 works fine. Rated for +P ammuntion, I carry either Pro-Poad or Cor-Bon 115 grain +P JHPs. Not too worried about ammunition proformance. When I'm not carrying a gun, a J frame Smith comes along for the ride.

No "safe" environment. Bad guys are mobile, too. Your main weapon system is between your ears.

[9.3X62AL]

. Your main weapon system is between your ears.


HEAR, HEAR.

[Aaron]

Got a ton of guns I could carry, but keep finding myself picking up my Kahr PM40 when I head out the door.

Aaron