Fed a load of bull spit on the target they sent me

[jh45gun]

Well when I got my Rossi Ranch Hand Pistol back. (Mares Leg) they sent a target shot at 30 yards at a two inch bull with the aim point right at the bottom of the black bull. (Tested by Felix Flores) The group they said was 2 1/4 5 shot group. So today I went and shot it at a pop can at about 15 yards and was shooting over it. So I shot at a small clump of dirt on a sand bank around 30 yards and saw it was shooting at least a foot high. STILL!!!! Come back into town and went to the gun shop and they measured the front sight and it was .440. So I got a new Williams Fire Sight I am guessing it is the .538 sight listed in the book as it is marked 53 on the base and the sights in the 500 range goes from .500 to .538 to 570. I wanted a front Fiber Optic sight so that works for me. Price was 10.99 so That is livable in case I would have to go with the .570. I will not be out that much if it does not work. I hope this sight is high enough.

To clarify the target

The group was centered on the Target they sent it to me. They circled the group and measured it and they also indicated the POA was at the base of the two inch bull. Two holes were a half inch apart right below point of aim according to him. Two holes together just left of center and touching the center line if you draw a line through the center of the bull. 5th shot is between two and three o:clock just inside the bull.

The target has my serial number and Service order #. Target said Bench rested at 30 yards and is shooting to factory specs. Bull spit! I mean the group is good but no way was he holding where he said he was. Ammo was Winchester 225 grain. I am shooting 252 grain bullets that is lighter than that using WW. Now before some one says that it might make a difference and I know heavier bullets will shoot higher. I have shot factory 225 Federal ammo in this gun and it printed very close to my hand loads.

Like I said I hope this sight is high enough now.

[btroj]

Different people have a different point of aim much of the time. I would never allow someone else to sight in a gun for me for just that reason.
Also, the difference in ammo does make a huge potential difference. Unless you use the exact same ammo then why expect the gun to shoot to same point of aim?

I also would ask why you expect that piece of garbage to shoot anywhere near point of aim. Get a real gun.

[jh45gun]

One thing folks have talked about at other forums is that yea the ammo might make some difference and how you hold the gun. Problem we have here is that it shoots high on the lowest setting of the elevator so there is no leeway to do any adjusting. I had a friend shoot the gun last fall and it shot high for him too and the same place I was shooting so that can take away it is just me shooting it high issue.

[starmac]

I think those were designed and sold more or less as a novelty, and they didn't expect folks to try for any serious accuracy. That said you should be able to come up with a way to hit what you shoot at. I have heard of some of their rifles that had the same problem with the original sights.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Agreed, it's oh **** I need to kill something gun!

[runfiverun]

jeez brad if you don't like the gun, why don't you just come out and say so..

[btroj]

Ok Lamar, I think those things are ugly and worthless.

The ammo can make a huge difference. Velocity and bullet weight control muzzle flip. Can you add a taller front sight? Higher front is like a lower rear.

At some point it may just become one of those guns you just learn to hold off with.

[jh45gun]

Your
I think those were designed and sold more or less as a novelty, and they didn't expect folks to try for any serious accuracy. That said you should be able to come up with a way to hit what you shoot at. I have heard of some of their rifles that had the same problem with the original sights.

Your right most of them Rossi 92's tend to shoot high. I do not have an issue buying a new sight I wanted a fiber optic front sight anyway. These guns are accurate with good sights that are regulated. That has been shown at you tube. In fact on guy shot a Racoon at a 100 yards with one a 357 one. Last fall I shot at a 100 yards with mine in a sand pit. due to the sights not being on I either shot over the target or below it due to the sights not being sighted in like they should be but I did see the possibilities of shooting that far with it and being able to hit what I was shooting at. I went from a .440 front sight to a .538 fiber optic front sight hopefully that will do it. Last fall when I filed down the notch an extreme lot I could hit where I was aiming and I was more than satisfied with the accuracy. But I did not like the sight picture with the altered sight so that is why I asked the company to put a new rear sight on it and sight it in. I last fall could hit better with this gun than my Uberti cattleman 45 Colt which I traded in to get this one. The Cattleman was a nice pistol but I just could not see the sights that well with the old fashioned top strap groove set up.

[TES]

Ammo..has been a big problem....I was shooting hand loads in my 06 and ran out.. Happened to have a box of federal 180s in my bag and said lets see what the difference is at 100 yards. Weel it was a foot high and 7 inches to the left! Now what would cause that if I'm running max loads of scratch built? The Hornady rounds...@ 400? I went from gong banging to 3 feet over. Those rounds are hot but zero primer flattening. Howd they do that?

[Doc Highwall]

TES, the factory ammo is sometimes loaded with powder that is not available to us as hand loaders. We buy what is known as canister grade powder. We as hand loaders have over 100 powders to load, they have special blends of powder not available to us as hand loaders, in addition to what is available to us as hand loaders.

In other words they have powder we cannot get.

[stocker]

Although they told you it was shot from a bench I have to wonder if they don't have a clamping set up for testing. That would remove the normal muzzle rise that occurs when the gun is hand held on the bench. Sights that work fine from a locked position would likely shoot high when hand held. If that is what they are doing they need to change their test method.

[jh45gun]

Thanks Stocker that very well could be. Good tip thanks.

[stocker]

jh: By extension, if you are free resting the fore end on a bag try holding it firmly in your off hand with your wrist resting on the bag to tame the muzzle jump.

[Dave Bulla]

Although they told you it was shot from a bench I have to wonder if they don't have a clamping set up for testing. That would remove the normal muzzle rise that occurs when the gun is hand held on the bench. Sights that work fine from a locked position would likely shoot high when hand held. If that is what they are doing they need to change their test method.

That was my first thought.

Second was personal preference for sight picture. Some guys like to hold the rear sight level with the top of the front sight, others like to hold a "fine bead" way down in the bottom. When my eyes were good, I'd always use the fine bead, as I've aged, the level view sometimes works better. If the tester held a fine bead and used a six o'clock hold and you use a level bead and hold centered, the gun will shoot a lot higher for you.

Also, bullet weight, recoil and time in the barrel make a difference. Heavy bullets cause more muzzle rise and spend more time in the barrel so at the closer ranges, often hit higher.

Lastly, just how the heck do you even aim one of them things? I'd be afraid to hold it out in front of my face and loose a grip on it. I like my teeth and eyes just as they are. Can't put it to your shoulder either. I just picture shooting from the hip or something and for that the sights are a non issue.

Just curious...

[jh45gun]

That was my first thought.

Second was personal preference for sight picture. Some guys like to hold the rear sight level with the top of the front sight, others like to hold a "fine bead" way down in the bottom. When my eyes were good, I'd always use the fine bead, as I've aged, the level view sometimes works better. If the tester held a fine bead and used a six o'clock hold and you use a level bead and hold centered, the gun will shoot a lot higher for you.

Also, bullet weight, recoil and time in the barrel make a difference. Heavy bullets cause more muzzle rise and spend more time in the barrel so at the closer ranges, often hit higher.

Lastly, just how the heck do you even aim one of them things? I'd be afraid to hold it out in front of my face and loose a grip on it. I like my teeth and eyes just as they are. Can't put it to your shoulder either. I just picture shooting from the hip or something and for that the sights are a non issue.

Just curious...

If you make a three to four inch lace up removable butt pad for it it is perfectly legal according to BATF since you can take it right off and it is not a fixed full length stock. The BTAF would take the same view if you put a rubber grip over your existing pistol grips. Ranchdog contacted the BATF for clarification on this issue. With that on you can shoot it from the shoulder comfortably. I use a fine sight picture since it is a buckhorn sight. I think even at the top would look like **** for a sight picture with a buck horn sight. Other ways I hold it is you can hold it pretty easy with one hand on the forearm and the other on the wrist stretched out like a pistol no problem. One other way that works good is cross your one arm across your chest held out for a rest and put the forearm of the gun on your arm for a rest .Works great. These are handy little guns and fun to shoot once you figure it out. I am sure the taller .538 sight will take care of it. If this one does not the .570 should.

[metalbender]

Quite a few guys up here in Canada have put carbine stocks on their Ranch hands. Makes for a great bush gun. I installed a Skinner ghost ring on mine but had to machine the base of the ring to get it .125 in lower than stock. Now it shoots to poa. Before mods were done I had to use a 6 o'clock hold and was still high. They are quite accurate although my target was at 25 yrds. I have read the posts on the SBR tax stamp, rules really suck. Somehow in all the Gov't wisdom the RH is just a rifle here.
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/metalbendr/IMG_2551_zps6c0d0fbc.jpg (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/metalbendr/media/IMG_2551_zps6c0d0fbc.jpg.html)
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/metalbendr/IMG_2509_zps5b3a08d2.jpg (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/metalbendr/media/IMG_2509_zps5b3a08d2.jpg.html)

[jh45gun]

Thanks for posting your target shows the naysayers they can be accurate. Yea if not for being sold as a pistol I would have never probably afforded one with the 200 dollar tax ect and the hassles of going through the batf hoops. Handy looking rig you have there.

[jh45gun]

Well rossi said they bench test with out no vise and no sandbags. So I sure would like to know how he got that target.

[jh45gun]

Yea Bill I figure the new front sight I bought will take care of the problem. I am just not impressed that they would send a target that no way I could duplicate with the existing sights as the gun was sent back with or as they were last fall until I cut the notch down in the rear sight. Only reason I did not leave it like that was it just did not look right.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

MY super black hawk will shoot perfect to the top of the front sight at 25 yards with 180 loads , with any 240 gr load i tried put me nearly a foot high at the same distance

i would not discount the difference between a 252 and a 225 causing similar change at 30 yards from a handgun

ruger sent me the front sight for a 45lc super blackhawk to install on my 44mag super blackhawk

[jh45gun]

Problem is pete I shot 225 grain Federal factory ammo last year and it shot high too. I would not think the difference between Federal and Winchester which they used being a foot high.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

is it a dove tail sight , that can be driven out and a new one in ?

i guess it really doesn't matter so much how it shot for them , i would not waste the time sending it back if you can replace the sight and make it right for the cast load and you

skinner sights makes a plastic front sight that you can put in place and cut down to height, that they send with their peep sight , then when you know what height you need you can order the right one

obviously they been around that tree a few times finding the right height sight

i would do something like that or build up what you have with jb weld and cut it down as needed then order the correct height replacement

i rarely find the factory irons up to my liking and plan to replace them on many guns even as i am buying them.

[jh45gun]

I guess you missed reading that I bought a fiber optic Williams Firesight for it and had it installed when I bought the sight. The old sight was .440 and the new one is .538. Hope that will do it. Otherwise if I need to go more they make a .570