Help with bullet selection on older paper patch blackpower bench gun.

[jonboyb]

Picked this gun up expecting the worst to use the action in a chunk gun build but it showed up much nicer than expected. I at least want to fire a few, and even though it came with a BUNCH of handmade swaging equipment, I've yet had a single post on ANY board to point me in the right direction on how to use them. So, I'm going to start from square one and find a bullet. It's a 30" by 1.5" diameter .44 caliber with a 1:18 twist like a Sharps. Set up for cross-patched paper patch. I'm assuming a lead conical in the 1.3" length range and 400'ish grain weight is what I'm looking for. Any advice (and feel free to check out my post in the swaging forum to see all the swaging dies I'm speaking of) would be appreciated.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200514-Help-Identify-Use-of-Handmade-Swaging-Equipment

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/awb1102/IMG_0254.jpg (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/awb1102/media/IMG_0254.jpg.html)

[rhbrink]

Have you read the "MUZZLE LOADING CAP LOCK RIFLE" by Ned Roberts he does have a lot of info about rifles like what you have? There was some copies available on evil-bay and Amazon it would be worth your time to get one at least for some starter ideas.

RB

[johnson1942]

jonboyb, find out what the diam. of top of land to top of lands is. then find a bullet preferably of pure lead or 30 to 1 that is 8 thousands smaller than the top of lands diam. of your bore. dry wrap 2 wraps of number 9 paper opposite the way the rifleing twist. cut the twisted tail as close to the base as possible. use a felt or fiber wad between base and powder. use only black powder. try 100 grains of 2f as the paper patched bullets like heavier charges than cast bullets. lube the paper with a beewax combo or rooser paperpatch lube or with thompson bore butter just before the bullet goes down. a cupped base on the bullet would be best as they bump up real easy when the fiber wad slams into them. i think you have the right length of the bullet figured out as the length is more important than just going by weight of the bullet. wipe between shots, one damp and 2 dry patches. your gun should be a real tack driver with this combo. keep us posted how it turns out as i and i think others find this gun very interesting.

[rmark]

Ah ha, now I know who bought that rifle. The booklet 'Muzzle Loading Shooting and Winning with the Champions' by the NMLRA has a chapter on slug guns. There is also an 3 part article on slug guns in the Sept, Oct, Nov 2001 'Muzzle Blasts'. And you need to read the 'The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle'.

[jonboyb]

I do not own the Ned Roberts book (my father might), but I certainly have the Muzzle Blasts tucked away somewhere. This months also had a story on bench guns.

As far as patch methods, this one has a muzzle setup for cross patching as the bullet goes in.....should I abandon that old system and go to more conventional methods like "johnson1942" described? I've seen some of the recent bench shooters build jigs to wrap and fold paper patches too.

Anyways, no plans to get into bench shooting seriously (and from what I've seen this gun is behind the times compared to most now). I have a 55" slow-twist roundaball barrel being built right now with a custom breech plug for this action (for iron-sight chunk gun fun), but I can switch back to this bench barrel at will. Anybody willing to take a guess on what era this gun might have been used competitively? It has a Unertyl peep tube and old Lyman front globe target sight so I'm thinking it's been many moons since that was the standard in bench shooting...LOL. Thanks again!

[Bullshop]

From what I have read I understand that for loading this type rifle they sometimes used what was called a Chase patch or cross patch.
The patching paper was cut into strips then laid across the muzzle or often a false muzzle when the barrel had a proper twist for conical boolits in an X pattern using two strips or sometimes used three strips in a similar pattern. The boolit and cross patch was then started in the false muzzle with a short starter that was a proper fit to the boolit, then fully seated with a long rod.
I once had a 50 cal Wesson rifle that loaded this way and it was quite an accurate rifle.
I have also patched RB in the same manner using the number of strips of paper for good fit with the diameter ball I was using. This also worked well for me.

[jonboyb]

Yep...this has a false muzzle setup to lay out your paper strips then load.

[johnson1942]

you can shoot it both ways, their is no wrote in stone way. i bet that gun will hit tacks at 100 yards either way. also if the grooves are at least 4 thousands deep you could shoot a snug going down cast grease groove bullet with a felt wad or fiber wad behind it very accuratly. the owner of buffalo arms shoots this kind of bullet with a felt wad behind it in his long range .45 and gets 4 inch groups at 400 yards. your gun has the potential to be every thing it was ment to be and even more than than it was ment to be. punching holes in holes way out their is fun especialy when you do it along side a shooter with a modern rife and you are way out doing him. cross patching may be easy and i have no experience in it but the 2 wrap way is very effective for me and alot ot others on this site. idaho ron is a very knowledgeable shooter on this but their are a lot of others who are quietly becomeing experts. like idaho ron said once you go to paperpatch you usually stick with it. have fun

[jonboyb]

Thanks everyone.

[451 Pete]

Jon I see you are a member of the NMLRA and that is a very good start to finding your answers. I don't know if you live anywhere near Friendship Indiana but you should try and make one of the big shoots we hold there ... one starts in just two weeks. There are folks at that shoot that can explain a lot more in detail what you have in the tooling for bullet making that came with the rifle than I can but it looks to me like a hammer swage set up that works with possibly a two piece bullet to form the nose and base profiles of the projectile, the nose usually being made of a harder alloy than the base section of the bullet, and then cross patched at the muzzle when loaded. Some of these bench rifles are very accurate and I would think that anyone taking time to make all of that tooling probably got some pretty good results out of that rifle on paper.
Alternately, if you cannot attend one of the match's at Friendship you can call the office of the NMLRA and ask to be referred to someone who shoots a slug gun or light bench and who may be able to walk you through exactly what you have.

Hope this helps .... Pete

[jonboyb]

Thanks Pete. My father goes to Friendship usually but not sure about this year, he's pushing for the Dixon show.

I have a pretty good idea what each of the dies do now other than this one which I think is the mold for a starting bullet....aggrivating to use I'm sure but can't come up with any other use since it's oversized considerable to the bore.
http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/awb1102/Mold.jpg (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/awb1102/media/Mold.jpg.html)

[bigted]

more photo's please?

[jonboyb]

There's a link in the first post....what else would you like to see?

[bigted]

There's a link in the first post....what else would you like to see?

THE RIFLE man the RIFLE !!!

[jonboyb]

My bad :)

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/awb1102/UH1.jpg (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/awb1102/media/UH1.jpg.html)

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/awb1102/pix929423357.jpg (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/awb1102/media/pix929423357.jpg.html)

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/awb1102/DSCN5597.jpg (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/awb1102/media/DSCN5597.jpg.html)