Scope'ing a Single Shot to aid with load development?

[BCRider]

I'm curious about the idea of making up a mount for my old rolling block .38-55 as a sighting aid during my upcoming load development time.

The rifle has a decent enough Pedersoli Soule style peep setup but I'd like to further reduce the effect of errors of my "old guy eyes" so that I know the results are more about the loads than me. So I'm looking at the idea of making up a mount that will clamp around the barrel just by the receiver and attached to a threaded insert at the rear sight dovetail.

This "cheat" would only be used for load testing.

Anyone done this or have thoughts on such a mount and what it'll do to the accuracy of the barrel?

Pictures of such setups?

[jhalcott]

I don't know about YOUR guns ,but MINE all get scoped! I KNOW it makes accuracy seem better and more repeatable. I know I did some thing wrong when accuracy goes away. Scope it and enjoy it. Keep the old sights in a drawer as trade bait when you decide to sell.

[BCRider]

I actually prefer shooting with the target match peep setup. When I do every time I look at the target it's like Christmas morning.... :D Just a case of "different strokes for different folks".

But I'm enough of a realist to accept that my old guy eye's are part of the equation. The scope would remove that, within reason, and let me know that any changes in group size are more about the ammo loads and less about "fuzzy old guy eye syndrome". Once I find a load or three that shoot consistently tight groups I'll go back to the peep sights and see if I can get close to matching what the rounds can do.

Oh, I'll mostly be using this rifle in competition for the long range cowboy action stuff. So a scope, other than an old original Malcom "tube" is not an option.

[EDG]

There is a specific way to get the best results with metallic sights on a single shot.
That is use both an aperture front and rear sight with a round black bullseye.
The bullseye should be sized for the distance. 6 inches to 10 inches in diameter works well for each 100 yards.
Size the front aperture to make a white band around the bullseye and the rear aperture should be sized to make a comfortable light band around the front sight.
Competitive shooters use this technique to shoot near 1" groups with 22 rimfires at 100 yards.

[hickstick_10]

Get rid of the pedersoli soule sight but keep the gun, theres no point in trying to develop a good load with a scope to use with mediocre iron sights. Its akin to putting 98 octane in a mini van to see how it handles on the race track.

Lots of guys with bad eyes do good shooting with quality tang sights.

[uscra112]

Several threads have reported that it's possible to glue a scope mount to a barrel with epoxy. Remove it again with a heat gun. (Obviously don't heat the barrel up shooting either!)

[Janoosh]

Some years back..... Wasn't there a Magnetic scope mount with some sort of bands to assist holding onto the barrel? I can't remember the name.....

[DIRT Farmer]

Plus one on glueing the mounts. Works well on muzzleloader barrels for load devolopment.

[Doc Highwall]

I would have it drilled and tapped for two low Weaver scope bases. When you are done you can just put capped set screws in the holes.

The other reason for drilling and tapping is the bases will not move giving better accuracy, and in the future you might only be able to shoot with a scope which is better then not being able to shoot at all.

I do agree about shooting with iron sights, but you do have to have good ones and know what size apertures to use for the target you are shooting at.

[WARD O]

I'm with you on this idea. Last year I scoped my first Sharps with exactly the same thought in mind as you. Right now, my second rifle is out getting drilled and tapped for scope bases. I am still planning on iron sights for most of my shooting but I think the scope will help me with the confidence factor that I have the best load possible.

Who knows, maybe in a few more years the scopes will need to play a bigger part in my shooting and I'll be all set.

ward

[Doc Highwall]

Don't get me wrong about iron sights, I and others have shot a lot of great scores of 400 out of 400 at 100 yards where the ten ring is 2" and the X ring is 1" with a 8" aiming black.

There is a lot that goes into shooting prone with a rifle with either scope or iron sights. First you have to make sure the rifle fits you so your eye is at the correct level looking through the scope or rear aperture.

Next you have to have the correct size front aperture with the correct amount of white showing around the aiming black for the existing light conditions, and the correct amount of light around the front globe sight.

Here is a attached picture that says a 1000 words. Study it and note the ratios between the aiming black and the white around it that shows through the front aperture, and the amount of light around the front globe looking through the rear aperture.

I would suggest you download this picture so you can study it some more.

[ph4570]

There is a specific way to get the best results with metallic sights on a single shot.
That is use both an aperture front and rear sight with a round black bullseye.
The bullseye should be sized for the distance. 6 inches to 10 inches in diameter works well for each 100 yards.
Size the front aperture to make a white band around the bullseye and the rear aperture should be sized to make a comfortable light band around the front sight.
Competitive shooters use this technique to shoot near 1" groups with 22 rimfires at 100 yards.

That technique works well for my wife and I. She can usually get 10 in 1-1.5" at 100 yds with her Win 1885 in 38-55.

[BCRider]

I hear you on the need to match the targets to the distance and the front insert to the rest as well. I've got some 6" targets that work well with the small front round insert for 100yds. And the 12 inch targets work well at 200yds. But there's still the "old guy eyes" and lack of my own confidence in shooting in this manner at the moment. Only once I try some loads and can obtain the same results with the peeps as with a scope will I be able to truly trust the whole setup.

Until then the scope may well end up being a "placebo" that raises my confidence in the results or it may indeed prove out to be a valuable tool for me.

I'm going to go ahead and try it. I'm going to try a clamp on "no drill" solution first and see where it leads.

[country gent]

It takes some use to get used to the appeture sights and "learn" them. I normally found my appeture scores a point or 3 better than the scoped scores. But I took to long looking thru the scope. With the appetures I seen the alighnment and took the shot. Dry firing with a dummy round in the gun will help build the confidence up. For many years I had a elec outlet and light swith with Black headed scews in them at the end of the hallway to dryfire with. Allowed me to work on offhand and prone positions daily. Make sure whatever you come up with is sturdy enough to handle the recoil impulse of the rifle / cartridge combo and wieght of the scope. I got "hit by a bushnell phantom when the screws sheared of my 357 herrt contender and it wasnt a pleasant experience at all.

[lotech]

I've tried the aperture tang sight vs. scope sight on two relatively accurate cast bullet rifles, Browning 1885 Traditional Hunters in .32-40 and .38-55, but only at 100 yards. I'm certainly not a marksman, but surprisingly found group sizes to be about the same regardless of the sight used.

[Doc Highwall]

Shooting both Small-bore and High-power competition I have learned that the scores are pretty much the same with maybe a few more X's with a scope.

There are advantages and disadvantages with both scopes and iron sights. Scopes have magnification as a plus, but parallax and magnifying your wobble times the power of the scope. Iron sights have no parallax like a scope, but have no magnification and eye placement/stock/cheek weld is more important.

[bigted]

thanks to all the posters on this one. the OP gave us an interesting and useful post to consider as well as the opportunity for the more experienced shooters to give advise on sighting and scope use.

I have enjoyed this post a bunch...thanks again.

[BCRider]

As have I.

To those that suggested I simply stick with the Soule peeps and learn to trust them I'm sure that'll come. But I just haven't been shooting with peep sights long enough to trust myself. It's not the sights, it's me. Hence my thinking about a 4 to 6 times scope to aid in load development so I KNOW in total confidence that any differences are related to the loadings and not to my own performance.

The other thought is to settle on a perfect size of target and shoot it closer in at 100 or even 50 yards where my old guy eyeballs are less of an issue. Since I've got the peep sights already on the rifle this is likely where I'll start out.

[wild thing]

I am 58 and only see out of one eye. I have scoped both my highwall and my rolling block. I do not shoot compitition so it really doesn't matter. With the scope I know the loads are accurate. Do not be afraid to scope your guns. Get the most out of them. John

[BCRider]

John, good on ya for keeping going and doing what you want.

In my case part of the fun is using my old rolling block in cowboy action long range "buffalo" events. So a scope for permanent use is out of the question. Also while I'm still reasonably able I'm actually getting a huge grin from shooting with the non magnified peep sight setup. But I see the optional scope mount as a good tool to use until I know if I can match the precision of the scope.

It's more about using the scope to take any residual doubt away during testing since I'm already constantly surprising myself at how well I'm doing with the peep sights.

[heathydee]

A couple of years back I was faced with the same problem ; old eyes and open sights , so I made a scope mount/fore-end which clamps on to the barrel immediately in front of the action once the original fore-end was removed . I used it to good effect on a 32-20 Low Wall and a Martini 310 .

I posted the project in another forum . Here is the link .

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=23311;st=0

[Goatwhiskers]

I have a Martini Cadet rebored to .35 cal and rechambered by me to Max. Has a lovely PH flip-up target sight on rear of frame and PH globe front sight. Things started out well but wanted to see how accurate the gun really is, then go back to the peep type sights. Cut a 4" piece of 12ga barrel and made a saddle mount with the blocks screwed on then attached to the barrel with AcraGlas gel. I used the gel as it doesn't seem to set up "brittle". Worked quite well, in fact I decided to go ahead and solder with Brownells Hi Force 44 and thought the epoxy would never turn loose. I'd use the gel again maybe even try it for more permanent installation. GW