Don't discount antiques!

[bruce drake]

I recently bought a 1888/05 German Commission Rifle off Gunbroker. It was made in Prussia's Spandau Arsenal in 1891. It was modified in 1905 for the new .323 Spitzer bullet and Mauser Charger clip before being put into Reserve arsenals and eventually was given to the Turks during World War I. Its a mix-master of parts but the barrel is nearly new looking at the condition of the lands and grooves.

I cleaned up all the remaining crust and gunk from the rifle this weekend and then took it to the range this afternoon. The pictures of the rifle are from the Gunbroker auction and the targets are from today.

50 yards was the starting distance to see how it worked.

The load was 32 grains of Russian Surplus pull-down powder from 1986 production 7.62x54R surplus (it burns approximately like IMR4064 but I only use it in Bolt rifles -No Garands) with LEE's 170gr Round-nose Gas checked boolit sized at .323. I lubed these with BAC Lube and used Winchester LR Primers in R-P 8mm Mauser cases.

The Target was a NRA SR-1 (200yard target reduced for 100 yards) and the last two 5-shot groups were sub 2-inches.[smilie=1: and yep, I'm happy with the rifle. 123 years old and still good for a tight shot group!

Bruce

[Dutchman]

Greetings Earthling

Highly recommend Paul Scarlata's book Collector's Guide to the German Gew.88 "Commission" Rifle.

Mine is one of the Ecuadorian rifles with a new Czech barrel .318". I'll work with it this summer when I get a scope mount made for it.

Two cast bullets I've had excellent results with are Lyman 323471 215 gr Loverin .324". Heavy dude. The other is RCBS .323" 170 gr flat nose purchased from Gardner's Cache http://gardnerscache.com/8mm_170_lfp_g_c.html

I'd like to see how your rifle does with better powder.. Unique and 2400. That target on the left looks like the bullets are not flying real good.. tilted.

Dutch

[bruce drake]

The paper target was fluttering in the wind pretty good today and the target backer was a snow fence with the target paper clipped to it. The Russian powder is very good. I use it in NRA Matches with other bolt rifles but thanks for the lead on the Scarlata book. I'll see if its in print still. I also use Red Dot as well as Unique with my 8mm Mauser Cast Loads.

I have the 230gr Lee Karabiner Mold as well as the Herters 323170 (170gr Spitzer) to play with as well in this rifle so there will be more trips to the range with this old girl.

Bruce

[Dutchman]

I got a whole new respect for the Gewehr 1888 after reading this book.. Didn't really know much about it at all. I've had mine for 10 years at least and fired it only briefly so far.

http://www.amazon.com/Collectors-German-Commission-Rifles-Carbines/dp/1931464308/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369283566&sr=1-1&keywords=Commission%22+Rifles+and+Carbines

[bruce drake]

Another good book for German arms collectors is Hans Dieter Gotz' "German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols 1871-1945." There is an double dot over the "o" in Gotz.

http://www.amazon.com/German-Military-Machine-Pistols-1871-1945/dp/088740264X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369284595&sr=8-1&keywords=Hans+Dieter+Gotz%27+%22German+Military+Ri fles+and+Machine+Pistols+1871-1945%22

[frnkeore]

That's a very nice looking rifle. I have a few of them and like them very much. Mine all have grooves + - .0005 of .3205 and I use mostly 32 caliber bullets in them. Mine have shot very high at 100 and 200 yards so, I bought a few shorter front sights off Ebay to get on target with a 6 o'clock hold.

Dutchman, I'd love to see your scope mount when you get it done. Maybe we could shoot them at White City some day.

Frank

[Scharfschuetze]

That brings back memories of high school days where one of my friends had a Commission Rifle. I always thought that it was a good looking rig. We were too inexperienced back then to really understand accuracy, bore diameter v. bullet diameter, etc.; but it was fun to shoot and it always seemed to hit the rocks and other debris that we shot at. I envy you that rifle. I haven't seen one worth buying in ages.

As an aside, I use that NRA SR-1 target all the time and I see that your 88 holds the 10 ring. Can't ask for more than that from an old warrior like your new/old "Gewehr Modell Acht und Achtzig."

[Dutchman]

Dutchman, I'd love to see your scope mount when you get it done. Maybe we could shoot them at White City some day.

Frank

I know where that is! My mother was living in an Alzheimer's group home just about across the road from there a couple years ago. I took the back road once from there over to Rogue Valley Med Center. I'd be happy to make the trip to Medford for a day of shooting.

My Gewehr 1888 was one that Southern Ohio Guns sold for $100. It has some pitting but a friend of mine in Indiana did a nice job of making it presentable again. The new Czech barrel made it worth while. I have 3 en bloc clips for it, originals, but I'm afraid my long eye relief scope mount using the NcStar 2-7x32 will intrude too far into the loading port area so I may have to single load. I won't know for sure until I'm there but as it is now I think it'll get in the way.

See on the left rear part of the receiver behind the bolt handle.. there is a small number '93'. The 1871 Mauser had the date of manufacture in that location but the 1888 were marked on the receiver ring. This one is Ludwig Loewe 1891. But that 93 almost has to indicate 1893 but what for?

http://images108.fotki.com/v1623/photos/2/28344/6550810/photo1-vi.jpg

This junker below is what ~I~ received from SOG for $100. Total ***. I sent it back, wouldn't accept it. This is why SOG removed the bolt heads and sold a bunch of these ratty rifles for $20 each.

http://images20.fotki.com/v1534/photos/2/28344/6550810/photo-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v1624/photos/2/28344/6550810/photo-vi.jpg

71324

[220swiftfn]

Hey, isn't that one of them thar dangerous, evil "barrel shrouds"????!!!?!?!?!?

Sorry, had to...... Nice job with the old girl, the sights are a limiting factor, that's for sure.......




Dan

[Hang Fire]

frnkeore: Mine have shot very high at 100 and 200 yards so, I bought a few shorter front sights off Ebay to get on target with a 6 o'clock hold.


Maybe I misunderstand the reason you got shorter front sights. But a shorter front sight will only make the rifle shoot higher yet.

Rear sight adjustments are made in the direction you want POI, front sight adjustments are made just the opposite.

[jonk]

I know where that is! My mother was living in an Alzheimer's group home just about across the road from there a couple years ago. I took the back road once from there over to Rogue Valley Med Center. I'd be happy to make the trip to Medford for a day of shooting.

My Gewehr 1888 was one that Southern Ohio Guns sold for $100. It has some pitting but a friend of mine in Indiana did a nice job of making it presentable again. The new Czech barrel made it worth while. I have 3 en bloc clips for it, originals, but I'm afraid my long eye relief scope mount using the NcStar 2-7x32 will intrude too far into the loading port area so I may have to single load. I won't know for sure until I'm there but as it is now I think it'll get in the way.

See on the left rear part of the receiver behind the bolt handle.. there is a small number '93'. The 1871 Mauser had the date of manufacture in that location but the 1888 were marked on the receiver ring. This one is Ludwig Loewe 1891. But that 93 almost has to indicate 1893 but what for?

http://images108.fotki.com/v1623/photos/2/28344/6550810/photo1-vi.jpg

This junker below is what ~I~ received from SOG for $100. Total ***. I sent it back, wouldn't accept it. This is why SOG removed the bolt heads and sold a bunch of these ratty rifles for $20 each.

http://images20.fotki.com/v1534/photos/2/28344/6550810/photo-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v1624/photos/2/28344/6550810/photo-vi.jpg

71324

That's about what the one I got from SOG looked like... but the bore was minty and I had a spare bolt head sitting around. I cleaned up the wood and lightly polished all the metal to get off the active rust, now it looks ok, shoots great.

[bruce drake]

As an aside, I use that NRA SR-1 target all the time and I see that your 88 holds the 10 ring. Can't ask for more than that from an old warrior like your new/old "Gewehr Modell Acht und Achtzig."

Scharfschuetzer,
Thanks for the congratulations from a fellow NRA high-power shooter. I hope to use it at Reduced and Vintage matches in the future as well.

Bruce

[bruce drake]

Dutchman,

The pristine 88s are out there if you are willing to pay a premium. SOG tried to pull a fast one with a lot of those 88s a few years back. I bought one and returned it as well. Mine looked like it had been underwater in a sandbar for the last 70 years with sand and crud throughout the rifle and rust pinholes throughout the barrel jacket along the woodline as well.

I got mine for a decent price because I knew it was a mix-master as well as the fact that the receiver and other parts of the rifle had been reblued at sometime as well and I was willing to purchase it as a shooter versus a collection piece.

The barrel itself is one of the original "S"-modified .318 barrels and is not one of the Czech replacement barrels so I am really happy to see how quickly the barrel cleaned up last night after the trip to the range yesterday.

[JeffinNZ]

Bruce, are those boolit holes round? They look oval or is it my eyes?

[bruce drake]

they are oval because the range I shoot at here in KS requires you to fix the targets sheets to plastic storm fencing that blows all about in the wind and curls from the heat. Its a crappy system but its the rules. If you try to bring your own target frame for a decent stable platform for the target you get yelled at by the local game warden if he sees you. think of the target leaning like this ------\ for the bullet path striking the target.
the range is free but that's almost a point of saying I won't go there anymore...wait, I'm going there tomorrow on my morning off...

[Scharfschuetze]

Bruce,

Does Fort Levenworth have an MWR range? Most bases that I was stationed at usually had a pretty good "Rod and Bottle" club for servicemen. Fort Bragg had the best, but Fort Hood was good and while Fort Lewis has a nice one (Range 15), I belong to the "Paul Bunyon Rifle Club" off post. The club has a great High Power rifle program and a full 600 yard range with pits for NM and other shooting endevours.

[bruce drake]

Leavenworth's Rod and Gun Club is focused on its shotgun ranges. Excellent Trap and Skeet ranges and clubhouse but not a big draw for centerfire sports.

The pistol range and 25 yard rifle line are too much of a headache to deal with the garrison to get it opened for Private Weapons Use. I'm certified to open the range to shoot on post when I want too (when its not locked down for training units...) but its easier to drive 30 miles to the Pigeon Hill Conservation Area which is open 7 days a week and deal with the restrictive target frame rules there.

I'm retiring to Indianapolis, Indiana in 3 weeks and I'm already preparing to be a member of a private club with 200 yard rifle range so I can get into serious cast bullet experiments and highpower shooting within the state and Camp Perry.

Bruce

[JeffinNZ]

they are oval because the range I shoot at here in KS requires you to fix the targets sheets to plastic storm fencing that blows all about in the wind and curls from the heat. Its a crappy system but its the rules. If you try to bring your own target frame for a decent stable platform for the target you get yelled at by the local game warden if he sees you. think of the target leaning like this ------\ for the bullet path striking the target.
the range is free but that's almost a point of saying I won't go there anymore...wait, I'm going there tomorrow on my morning off...

OK. Thought you may have had an outbreak of the dreaded 'Wobbly Bottom Syndrome'. OR your trajectory was soooooo steep the boolits were coming in on an oblique angle.... ;-)

[madsenshooter]

That Russian powder you're using Bruce, burns, as you said, about 4064 speed. But something I've noted is that it seems easier to get started than some other powders. I bought some of the lead free Tula primers (only 4800 to go!). With a Swiss powder that's 4198 speed, I get click, bangs. With RL19, I get click, bangs. But I don't get any click, bangs with the surplus Russian powder when using those same primers. Maybe less deterrent coating than other powders? Some AF Academy testing with 4895 in the .308 indicated some click bangs too.

Oh yea, way up north in IN, there's a private range, Young's Longshot. I had lots of fun there. http://www.youngslongshot.com/

[bruce drake]

Jeff,

I'm rated for plunging fire but that's usually at 1000 plus yards and I'm using a Machine Gun so I can do a cone of fire and a beaten zone ;)

Madsen,

That Russian powder was worth the time pulling down two crates of surplus 7.52x54R. I got bullets for my Enfields and Arisakas and the powder is again great for most bolt rifle work.

Bruce

[Dutchman]

Bruce

Congratulations on your retirement from the military. Not many fellows could walk the USMC path and then the army path. I think it's an admirable feat. I salute you in humble recognition, sir. I offer you this to ponder on all things red, white & blue: http://youtu.be/a-7XWhyvIpE


I replicated a Lee push-through sizing die @ .320" to size down some of my existing 8mm cast bullets. I'll try some .323" and .324" but wanted to also try some closer to groove diameter of .318".

Jeff van NZ: this is a scratch-made die with 7/8-14 threads made of some scrap low carbon steel bar stock. You don't really need anything more exotic than 1018 steel for cast bullet sizing dies.

http://images60.fotki.com/v367/photos/4/28344/9895637/DSCF3819x-vi.jpg

The 8mm bullet shown is 323470 160 gr Loverin. It drops from the mold @ .325" and was sized to .320" for the Gewehr 1888. The other is a 350 gr 50 caliber for the Swedish rolling block sized to .510" from .515".

http://images60.fotki.com/v370/photos/4/28344/9895637/DSCF3809x-vi.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

Nice work on the die. I can see the force is strong with you.

Actually, considering Bruce is moving soon I would have thought he'd be SELLING guns......hehehehe.

[bruce drake]

Oh Heck no! I don't sell unless I'm improving the collection.

Bruce

[Scharfschuetze]

Bruce,

Congrats on the approaching retirement! I'm enjoying mine, but I have to admit that I miss the work. Still, I'm finding time to get to the range and that's a good thing.

[lka]

Lol, Thanks to this thread I have been stopping at yard sales in between jobs today and found some! I would almost hate to melt some of this LOL

[bruce drake]

After 24 years, its going to be different not wearing the uniform and boots every day. Moving into a different realm soon and I'm hoping its going to be a rewarding change. And not going overseas every other year will be a positive change for the family and I.

I did get to go to the range again this morning. The 32gr Russian powder/170gr LEE RN is good for 100 yards with a center mass hold at the 300yard sight setting so its right at 2000 fps which is what I'm looking for with this rifle. A 10-shot string over a sandbag rest scored a 93-2X with seven 9s and three 10s.

Bruce

Bruce

[Finnmike]

Dutch, if at all like my 71/84s, that 93 indicates date of actual manufacture...

This one is Ludwig Loewe 1891. But that 93 almost has to indicate 1893 but what for?

[bruce drake]

According to Gotz, Page 99 of his "German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols", in 1893 ALL 88 Rifles and Carbines were returned to the depots for inspection and possible barrel replacement due to the original production 88 jacketed bullets being too big (8.1mm) for the barrel's bore (7.9mm) which lead to excessive nickel-fouling and/or wear. Gotz reports that over 50% of the Reich's 88s required a new barrel during that recall.

The 93 stamped on that receiver could possibly be an indicator of that depot overhaul.

Bruce

[frnkeore]

Maybe I misunderstand the reason you got shorter front sights. But a shorter front sight will only make the rifle shoot higher yet.

Rear sight adjustments are made in the direction you want POI, front sight adjustments are made just the opposite.

Sorry, your right. I confused myself.

Dutchman,
I have 3 actions with out the '05 modification and 4 with it, Plus a 1935 Turk version. None of them have a mark in that location. The '05 conversion covers 2/3's of that area but, still enough area is left to put a date stamp behind it. Could it have been the year that yours was re-barrel by the Czech's?

With a few days advance warning. I could meet you out there :)

My wife works at a care home on Lakeview off Corey Rd about 1/2 mile from the range.

Frank

[frnkeore]

From what I know, that type mark was put on the left side rail. I have a 1893 Spandau so marked with a W . Most of them are Danzig though.

This is a very good forum on these rifles and you'll find the armory referbish info on it..

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/forums/92/GEW-1888-Commission-Rifles

You can register your serial number here, too.

Frank

[JeffinNZ]

According to Gotz, Page 99 of his "German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols", in 1893 ALL 88 Rifles and Carbines were returned to the depots for inspection and possible barrel replacement due to the original production 88 jacketed bullets being too big (8.1mm) for the barrel's bore (7.9mm) which lead to excessive nickel-fouling and/or wear. Gotz reports that over 50% of the Reich's 88s required a new barrel during that recall.

The 93 stamped on that receiver could possibly be an indicator of that depot overhaul.

Bruce

Squeeze bore? LOL.

[bruce drake]

They were blazing quite a trail back then. It was the German's first smokeless powder rifle and cartridge and it wasn't like the French were willing to swap secrets of how they got their 8mm Lebel to work ;)

Paul Mauser lost an eye to a gas blowback when he was developing his 1893 Mauser. One of the main reasons why the 98 Mausers have such a large gas shield on the bolt ;)

[Ed in North Texas]

Another good book for German arms collectors is Hans Dieter Gotz' "German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols 1871-1945." There is an double dot over the "o" in Gotz.

An umlaut, a diacritic mark to show the sound of the vowel is different from the pronunciation without the umlaut. The vowel followed by an "e" can replace the umlaut in German. So "Scharfschuetzer" can also be "Scharfschützer".

And my wife tells me I'm a fount of useless knowledge. Hah!

[Scharfschuetze]

Ed,

You are all over that umlaut business!

[bruce drake]

Thanks Ed. I never served in Germany in 24 years and my HS Latin is long ago :)

[richhodg66]

That Pigeon Hill range kinda sucked, but was Ok when I could catch it in minimal usage times.

I got big pieces of stiff cardboard from discarded moving boxes and some pretty strong clamps. I could usually get something fairly solid to put up targets with.

I've got to get out and shoot soon, missed the past several weekends due to work and personal commitments. Nice score on that rifle, by the way.

[WILCO]

Looks good Bruce. The rifle reminds me of ones seen in the Tin Tin cartoons.

[bruce drake]

Thanks Rich. Its a nice rifle and I'm going to have fun with it (the next tests will be with the LEE 230gr FN) and you are right. Pigeon Hill was never the best but it beat dealing with the Range Nazis from Garrison. Last trip, I picked off 3 ticks from being out only an hour and that was with bug spray applied!

The last time I saw 1888s being used in the movies was in the Sherlock Holmes II movie where the Kaiser's troops where firing on them as they were trying to escape through the woods and the second was a Chinese movie with Jet Li where they were talking about the battles between the Nationalists and the Communists. I think those were Hanyang 88s but the barrel jackets were easily recognized.

Bruce

[Ed in North Texas]

Thanks Ed. I never served in Germany in 24 years and my HS Latin is long ago :)

I have fond memories of Germany. Back in the early to mid 60s, when the exchange rate was 4 DM to the dollar, even a PFC earning $99.00/month could have a good time.

And congratulations on retirement well earned.