Avid shooters AGAINST lead bullets-funny people

[DrCaveman]

I was having a chat today with a work-friend. He is an old pal of the owner, a viet nam vet - mechanical engineer who runs a custom truck-fab shop. I think metal fab & finishing are his expertise, but he comes around for deep repairs of shop tools. Most of that is beyond my skill level as i focus on production efficiency and manage material flow and every hour i spend tinkering with a tool is $500 lost production. We have a small shop so efficiency is key. Enough about me.

He is one of the more enthusiastic shooter/reloaders that i know, and we often chat about 45 acp, 1911s and reloading practices. Ive mentioned before that i was a caster but i think it didnt sink in due to genetic hearing defects (coupled with decades of active shooting) leaving him close to deaf.

He recently had a cochleal implant and now hears better than i do! (heads up to all you old shooters/horse shoers...). Conversations have become much more two-directional! Phone calls now serve a useful function as well.

My story begins though when i realized i had some recovered boolits in my car. I wanted to show off my babies! Some 45 200 swc, some 45 230 rn, my own cast of course. One rn had beautiful mushrooming (not sure how that happened, but it looked like a perfectly expanded HP).

As soon as i pulled them out of my pocket, he says "why the hell are you shooting lead through your barrels?"

"dont you know how hard on your barrels that is?"

"what do you clean them with?"

"that is very dangerous."

I came back with, after a little while, that i had heard copper jacjeted bullets were harder on barrels than lead. Also went on to point out that my lead bullets are 452-453" vs the jax being 451" and so i did not get lead deposits. He was not sold, and asked if i swaged them. I said no, cast from melt, and that the process was fun to boot.

He kinda squinted, turned his head, and i think maybe had an epiphony. He stopped scolding me for my methods, but i could tell he wasnt a convert.

Now this is a guy much my elder (dad's age) who is standup, honest, worthy of respect and who unhesistantly dishes out knowledge to the willing. I was truthfully a bit unsure what to make of his statements.

After pondering on it, i feel no differently about my choice to cast and shoot cast boolits. The results speak for themselves, at least up to this point. In my pistols i have bettered every jax bullet load i tried. In rifles i havent yet reached the same accuracy at the same velocity as jax, but i think my killing power is on a par within the velocities i HAVE found accuracy at.

No question or anything here. Just thought i would share my tale of the day regarding cast boolits and the attitude which so many hold toward them

[Dennis Eugene]

There are many out there who having never cast a single bullet still know much more about cast bullets than anyone here. And most often they will be happy to enlighten you about it. Sometimes it just best to let them revel in there knowledge and not start any arguments. Dennis

[MtGun44]

Can't imagine this sort of silliness. If you don't actually know, shut up and listen.

Bill

[SciFiJim]

Also, just because he is your dad's age, it doesn't mean he know more than you do about everything. However, he is probably more knowledgeable than you on the things he has done instead of "I heard".

[btroj]

Yep, many older, experienced shooters who don't know squat about cast. They seem to always know the old wives tales. Lead the barrel. Wheel weights have dirt, it wears out the barrel. Can't shoot em fast, especially in microgroove rifling.

I don't bother with explaining it, I just walk away.

[blikseme300]

I actually had a member at my indoor range ask me if I carved the boolits from lead chunks. He did not know how fishing sinkers were made either. A short YouTube video enlightened him quick. He will be visiting my place this weekend for a face to face with boolit casting.

[Stephen Cohen]

Exactly, that is why the good lord gave us two ears and one mouth.

[lka]

I had a guy talk **** about casting, said it was too much trouble when you can just go buy jacketed bullets, I took some HP casts of mine and I think he changed his mind, he is ow looking into learning, not to load a ton but to load if **** gets weird and ammo restrictions are put in place..

[Jim]

I quit arguing the virtues of cast boolits a long time ago. Last time I heard something along the lines of "That'll ruin your barrel", I just said "Well, you're welcome to come out to the house an' put a light down any of my rifle barrels. While you're there, I'll show you my collection of documented targets."

I know it's a bit rude, but I love walkin' off an' leavin' the guy standin' there with that 'deer in the headlights' look on his face.

[EMC45]

By all means if he thinks lead will ruin your gun than let him believe it! More for you. You really don't want lead scrounging competition do you?

[dakotashooter2]

Just tell him that with the $600-$700 per 10,000 that you saved shooting cast instead of jacketed you can aford a new barrel, or even a new gun, IF you need one....................LOL..............

[Texantothecore]

I am always amazed at the high levels of expertise claimed by those who have never shot lead boolits and those who have never handled a gun.

They can be just soooo precious.

[Walter Laich]

They make jacketed bullets? ;)

[pmer]

Like my Pastor says "don't dump the whole load of hay on the cow". You got him thinking about it, show him a dirty barrel with a count of how many boolits went through it.

[Hogdaddy]

I think he's a little close to California in my book,, he he he :kidding:
H/D

[jsheyn]

They are everywhere....I have a buddy that wont shoot nickle plated brass....another buddy that ONLY shoots FMJ....he ribs me about lead and I rib him about not knowing anything....at the end of the day I get his brass and stuff a lead bullet in it

[snuffy]

I'm so sick of "I have heard, or I have read". Especially if it was this amazing internet. That's the start of myths, repeat something long enough it becomes legend/myth/fact.

Some are willing to listen. Some are even open to learning how it's done. One guy that's sort of shirt tail relation was dragged over to my man cave by his cousin, my nephews wife. He had never seen a shell loaded. He had heard it was dangerous. I ran a .280 through the process on my co-ax press. He was amazed how simple it was. Within 2 weeks he had a used Pacific press, dies and jax bullets to load his FN .308. I mentored him through the initial set-up and gave him an old but still relevant Hornady manual to read.

Then he saw I was casting my own boolits. He watched me cast some 45s and then load some that had been sized and lubed. Again he was instantly interested. I gave him an old lee 10 pound production pot I no longer used,(having graduated to a pro 20), and a lee 45 225 1r mold to practice with. Oh and enough lead to fill the pot twice. A bottle of mule snot,(LLA), and he was on his way to learning. Steven is a very brite young man, he grasps things quickly.

Instead of shutting up when someone asks, or there's a discussion about lead boolits, invite them over for a look-see into your operation. You might get a new friend, and we all benefit from another shooter.

[birch]

Whenever I get asked if lead is safe to fire, I always mention the good ol' .22lr. I always ask them if they have ever seen a .22 barrel that has been shot out? Most say they have a .22 of sorts that they have put 10's of thousands of rounds through and it still groups like the day they first got the gun.

I remember the first time a good friend said that he shot lead boolits. The only experience I had with lead was from 50 rounds of .38 colt that I bought at gun show to put through an old H&R revolver. At this time we both worked at a small municipal airport and he bought in a Marlin guidegun in 45/70 that he loaded with his own cast boolits. We went out back to a sand pile and he let me see what lead boolits would do.
I was hooked. I borrowed a lyman reloading manual from him, bought a ruger vaquero in 45colt, and my quest began. I have been trying to learn the craft ever since.

[dragonrider]

There are few guys I run into At the range that have been shooting/reloading years longer than I have
because of that they KNOW that lead boolits will ruin your barrel, and yet they have never cast a boolit.
In their minds.they are right and will never be convinced.

[9.3X62AL]

Most of the range shooting I do gets done on weekdays, so there aren't a lot of folks sharing the range at a given time. I usually fall into conversation with others about calling the line "cold" for target upkeep, and they often see my silver bullets peeking out of ammo boxes on the rifle line. They swing their spotting scope over to view my targets, and invariably ask--"Are those cast bullets?"

"Yes, sir/ma'am."

"What caliber izzat?"

"243." (This was about 2 months back.) I had some 5-shotters at 100 yards running 1.25"-1.5", my old load of 12.0 x 2400 under the RCBS 24-95-SP (many thanks to Carpetman!).

They may not take up the hobby field, but they came away knowing a bit more about the venue than previously. Good enough for me. Goodness knows it saves money, and keeps me shooting in these lean times of no components.

[mdi]

If the gentleman is as knowledgeable of metals/machining/mechanics as you say, he'll soon see the light. Perhaps that what you described during your conversation. It's only logical...

[ku4hx]

More FUD and baseless web-based gun lore. If you'd told him you shoot cast boolits through your Glock barrels, he'd likely have wet himself and fainted.

[Harter66]

I've a life long close friend . He won't shoot remans,much less reloads , forget cast. On the other hand in 6yr I've purchased 120rd of factory ammo as I couldn't form those 2 out of something else .

[jasent]

I'm so sick of "I have heard, or I have read"
Instead of shutting up when someone asks, or there's a discussion about lead boolits, invite them over for a look-see into your operation. You might get a new friend, and we all benefit from another shooter.

+1. Other wise they will continue to spread the myths

[DrCaveman]

+1. Other wise they will continue to spread the myths

Good point. I did try to be fairly diplomatic, stating my case and describing performance and the lack o cleaning needed-once I understood lead boolit fit. I did not 'shut up' and I would advocate others also chiming in to help bury those myths

I'm curious what his tune will be the next time we talk. Maybe I made a convert and didn't even know it

[ghh3rd]

When I was shooting my .44 Ruger SBH often, I was often getting 2" groups at 50 yds. A number of times someone would express surprise that I was using cast boolits.

The more of those folks, the more lead for us :-).

Randy

[40-82]

This reminds me of a similar situation. A fellow I knew moderately well invited a half-dozen of his friends to come to the farm and shoot their pistols. All of them showed up with modern target sighted sixguns of various makes and jacketed factory ammunition. I steered them toward shooting at my bullet trap so I could recover their lead. We backed off to fifty yards and the target I set up was a four inch black circle on a piece of typing paper. All of them shot a cylinder full and I changed the target almost every time because most of them put one or two into the sheet of typing paper. When my turn rolled around, and I pulled out a Colt New Service .45 Colt made in 1919 with fixed sights loaded with my Lyman 255 cast boolits, I could feel the impatience. They were ready to move on to closer, faster, and more interesting shooting. After my sixth shot not a single hole appeared in the typing paper. As we walked up to check the target one of them said, "If you'd used a modern gun with decent sights and jacketed bullets I'll bet you would have put at least one in the paper." When we reached the target, we saw what wasn't visible at the fifty yard line: six holes in the bottom of the black 2" center-to-center. I told them, "Imagine what a young man with a new gun and Jacketed bullets could do." I declined to tell them that the group surprised me as much as it did them.

I know a little bit about cast bullets, but it's more fun for me to tell you about jacketed pistol bullets. I bought a couple of boxes of those bullets back in '69 or '70. When somebody tells me how great the latest jacketed pistol bullet is for all I know they are right. I don't have the experience to disagree.

[PS Paul]

I hear it often. even from "knowledgeable" fellas. Had an Uncle who was a very gifted amateur gunsmith. He shot rifles and reloaded for better than 50 years and had WELL OVER 100 original Winchester model '73's in his collection.
Saw me shootin' a .458 Win Mag with lead boolits I cast and barked, "Why you shootin' those? It'll lead up yer bore somethin' awful!". So I asked him about his Winchesters and the "original '73 jacketed loads" designed for them. he he......

It was the moment the light turned on for him.

[Shiloh]

A) How long have folks been making cast boolits??
B) How long have folks been making jacketed bullets??

Please respond as I am truly interested. I would think around 600 yearsw for cast and about 130-135 for jacketed??

One can produce cast boolits with simple equipment made by more complcated equipment.
One can produce jacketed bullets by some not so simple, considerably more expensive equipment.

Shiloh

[Gtek]

Somewhere in the conversation if I find myself with one of them I politely move on. As I am walking away in my head I hear (nasty word)-em, life is so very short, more lead for me! Gtek

[jlchucker]

:lol:
I quit arguing the virtues of cast boolits a long time ago. Last time I heard something along the lines of "That'll ruin your barrel", I just said "Well, you're welcome to come out to the house an' put a light down any of my rifle barrels. While you're there, I'll show you my collection of documented targets."

I know it's a bit rude, but I love walkin' off an' leavin' the guy standin' there with that 'deer in the headlights' look on his face.

When I first acquired my 45-70, around 1981 or thereabouts, I was working in what was then the 3d largest machine tool plant in the US. The chief metallurgist was an older guy, and a gun enthusiast who not only cast boolits, but now and then would create his own wildcat calibers. Old Charlie knew something about steel of all grades, and other metals as well. He suggested that I start casting boolits for my new Marlin, never once mentioning problems with microgroove or anything else. He did say that lubed lead bullets would never wear out barrels made of modern steel. It made sense to me, and my now-old Marlin has seen more cast bullets than jacketed ones over the years. Therefore, I've always thought that those who say that cast bullets would ruin your barrel are full of s*** up to their ears. :lol::lovebooli

[imsoooted]

I was at our 100 yd range servicing a target. just fired 20 rnds of my new mihec nato 223 out of a rr predator pursuit. 2 groups averaging about 2" each. the guy beside me looked over and made a comment about "bulk bullets" not being accurate like his factory loaded bullets. when I politely informed him that these were cast boolits, he not so politely informed ME that it was not possible to shoot cast boolits from an AR. during the next string of shots it took nearly all the self control I had not to send one of my shots into his "factory" grouping........

[dakotashooter2]

The government has everyone so phobic about lead and mold you would thiink being within 100 feet of either would cause deadth in a matter of seconds...........Sadly a large segment of the population no longer has any common sense or the ability to reason for themselves..............

[Aunegl]

I think it's dumbing down of the American educational system thats at fault.

[farmbif]

Might try asking one of these experts if there are there any manufacturers that make a cowboy load with a jacketed bullet?

[ironhead7544]

I quit telling people I use cast bullets in Glock pistols. They start lecturing me about polygonal rifling and how the gun will blow up.

Never heard the one about how lead bullets will ruin your barrel. I guess there were no good barrels back in the pre-jacketed days. A few shots of lead would ruin them right away.

[Brad Phillips]

Even very intelligent people can't possibly know everything. As long as they have the sense to have an open mind, all is good.

[Smoke4320]

They make jacketed bullets? ;)

Ikeep all my boolits under a jacket .. Its nice and warm there and they are safe from prying eyes :)

[303Guy]

Well, I have seen a bore ruined by lead boolits. It was only the throat that was ruined - the leade had chased forward by about a boolit length. It was a Martini single shot 22lr target rifle - well used. No idea how that could have happened, even with a mild steel barrel. The rest of the rifling was clean and sharp, the worn area was irregular and devoid of any rifling. Only the breach section of the barrel had been kept as a curiosity. It was a gunsmith who showed me. He said he had re-barrelled one particular target rifle more than once (Martini 22lr).