California Mandates Microstamping - Effective Immediately

[MtGun44]

Sad news for California gun owners.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Gun-control-Cartridge-ID-law-to-take-effect-4527165.php

It will be interesting to see whether the gun makers continue to
sell semiautos in CA or just drop the whole state from their sales
agenda. Large state, must be a large market, but with the crazy
restrictions, I wonder if it is a shrinking market as the politicians
slowly, but steadily strangle gun sales in the state.

I would assume that 10 seconds with some 240 grit sandpaper, or
changing the firing pin to a "pre ban" fring pin would easily eliminate
this.

If you leave some brass as the range and some guy picks it up
and drops it at a crime scene . . .

Will replacement firing pins be a gov't controlled item?

Will older guns have to be retro fitted?

What if you are found to have a gun with no microstamp on the
FP and it was originally shipped with it? Is it a crime to remove
the microstamping? What if it wears off?

How can a gunsmith replace a broken firing pin? Does he have to
get the factory to make a new FP with the correct SN? How long
a turnaround will that take?

Mass insanity.

Bill

[ubetcha]

I thought I had heard that micro-stamping did work as well as they had figured it would.

[Chili]

See ladies and gentlemen, this is just one of many reasons why california is called the land of fruit and nuts or LOFAN. I was stationed there for 2 years and was happier than a pig in mud when I left. It was an omen when we came across a customs booth and was asked if we had fruit, plants etc. I knew then it was going to be a strange assignment.

[VintageRifle]

The stamp will not just be on the firing pin. If I remember correctly it will also be embossed into the case walls when the gun is fired.

I would challenge the law as there is no way to prevent the data on the cases from falling into criminal hands. Plus wouldn't it be fun to collect other peoples brass and have a personal database on those that own guns. You will have access to make and model. Just take pictures of the owners at the range and make your database.

Bet there is going to be a nice market for crime scene plant brass.

[462]

A few months back, I read that there were over 600,000 guns sold in California in 2012. Granted, not all of them were new handguns, but the state is a huge market for the manufacturers to ignore.

Bill raises some very important points, none of which the legislatures and Arnold gave any thought to. But, what do they care, as long as their radical agenda becomes law? I suspect that lawsuits are in the works.

The upside, if there is one, is that my handguns immediately increased in value.

[shooter93]

They gave those points lots of thought 462......they just don't care. If it stands you'll see this in other states. The rest of the 80 million or so gun owners had better wake up and get on board. This is not about guns and never has been.

[Bob in Revelstoke]

The way I read this, it only applies to semi-autos. Have they never heard of revolvers? Perhaps it is just that politicians are inherently stupid and don't know the difference.

[jcameron996]

Haven't I been reading about how the state of California is about the same as broke? Seems like I have also read that when this was tried before it turned out to be a huge waste of money that returned nothing in the way of useable evidence that solved a crime. Makes perfect sense. Common sense is no longer very common.

[dakotashooter2]

I'm curious.. How effective is the marking on steel case ammo?.. Considering most of the guns used in crime are probably stolen, or bought illegally how does this help solve crimes? Does this apply to LE guns also?

Sounds like it will just be another way for LE to chase their tails.................. I blame shows like CSI...I think the general public, including lawmakers, really believe LE has that much technology and access to information..........

[Boyscout]

Incrementalism. The Democrats are better at it than the Republicans. They learned it from their masters the Kremlin and Saul Alinsky. I think Mao called it The Long March.

[freebullet]

It's surprising anyone whom values their 2a rights would live there anymore at all. Utopia unrealized.

[Blacksmith]

It will last until someone picks up some brass from an important person then drops it at a crime scene. Can't you just see the outrage when some big star's concealed carry gun is implicated in a crime and they have to answer a bunch of questions. OJ comes to mind.

[MtGun44]

Using logic (VERY dangerous when involving law) revolvers don't leave brass
at the scene of a shooting, so no point in modifying them.

Even if on the case wall, easily polished off if it is shallow enough to
avoid causing extraction problems.

Worst case, change the bbl and FP and you are good to go. If you have
the skill of an 8th grader who attended a shop class, easy to fix yourself.

The question is: If you have a gun that was made to these standards, is
it illegal to modify to remove? What happens if it wears off? Still guilty
of a crime? Will annual inspections be required? Will people get into
fist fights on ranges over dropped brass because of potential for
misuse?

OK, I buy once fired brass and reload it - is the marking on the case
erased or is my reloaded brass now tagged to some other gun?

What if there are two or three different numbers due to multiple
reloads? Is reloading now illegal in CA?

Bill

[km101]

Come on guys! You are spoiling all of their "pipe dream" benefits with all this logic! The banners want to claim that microstamping will solve all the crime problems in Commiefornia and you are raining on their parade! They don't want to hear about "stolen brass", or replacement firing pins or easily changed barrels. In the world they live in these things either wont happen or don't matter. Never mind the legal technicalities! This will solve crime!

They have already made up their minds, don't bother them with the facts! :kidding:

[perotter]

Will older guns have to be retro fitted?

What if you are found to have a gun with no microstamp on the
FP and it was originally shipped with it? Is it a crime to remove
the microstamping? What if it wears off?

How can a gunsmith replace a broken firing pin? Does he have to
get the factory to make a new FP with the correct SN? How long
a turnaround will that take?

Mass insanity.

Bill

Looks like to sell or transfer a used gun they would have have this. I'm positive of that. I don't see that one can't take it off of their existing gun.


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_bill_20071013_chaptered.pdf

"By expanding the definition of “unsafe handgun,” the manufacture, sale,
and other specified transfer of which is a crime, this bill would expand the
scope of an existing crime, and thereby impose a state-mandated local
program."

[lka]

I thought I had heard that micro-stamping did work as well as they had figured it would.

I heard some libtard finally thunk about it and realized that it can easily be removed with a file,, I also heard that the inventors of it have some libtarded Bureaucrats in their pockets so that's why they are pushing it..... I heard this on cam and company. And Unfortunately I too live in the commie state

[starmac]

They had to wait for the inventors patent to run ourt before the law went into affect.
They know this will never be a way to identify bad guys, that is not the intent. Those in power are trying their best to outlaw guns, if just a few manufacturers decide to not build the cali only guns, they got what they wanted. Does anyone not think, it will not be long before they come up with something else for revolvers, rifles,and shotguns to change and make the manufacturers jump through hoops, just to take away a few more options. the hope is eventually eliminate all options, it has nothing to do with crime.

[Gliden07]

This scares me!! I live in Massachusetts and they love to follow California's lead!! Our crummy governor would enact this in a minute if he could figure a way to turn a buck with it!! My Father told me 30 years ago that they would not be able to get rid of guns but, they would legislate them out of existence! I hate to say it Ladies and Gentlemen but it seems like the time is near?? And on June 8th Obummer is expected to sign the UN Small arms Treaty!! Sad times we live in!! Our Founding Fathers never intended this kind of Garbage to happen in this country!!



Sad news for California gun owners.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Gun-control-Cartridge-ID-law-to-take-effect-4527165.php

It will be interesting to see whether the gun makers continue to
sell semiautos in CA or just drop the whole state from their sales
agenda. Large state, must be a large market, but with the crazy
restrictions, I wonder if it is a shrinking market as the politicians
slowly, but steadily strangle gun sales in the state.

I would assume that 10 seconds with some 240 grit sandpaper, or
changing the firing pin to a "pre ban" fring pin would easily eliminate
this.

If you leave some brass as the range and some guy picks it up
and drops it at a crime scene . . .

Will replacement firing pins be a gov't controlled item?

Will older guns have to be retro fitted?

What if you are found to have a gun with no microstamp on the
FP and it was originally shipped with it? Is it a crime to remove
the microstamping? What if it wears off?

How can a gunsmith replace a broken firing pin? Does he have to
get the factory to make a new FP with the correct SN? How long
a turnaround will that take?

Mass insanity.

Bill

[Stephen Cohen]

I may only be an Australian but even I can see this as a foolish pipe dream, Hell I thought our forced buy back was a stupid move but this takes the cake.

[Liberty'sSon]

It's time for conservatives to give up on California. They should all just load up and move to a state that we could possibly flip back red Colorado maybe, or they could shore up Texas, if it ever goes blue it's over.

[wv109323]

Since most firearms used in crime are stolen, Why didn't they include a mandatory clause that all felons, thief's , and owners of stolen firearms bring in their stolen firearms so that they could be retrofitted with a firing pin that would microstamp the fired case. That way it would speed up law enforcement in finding the gun responsible for the crime.
If you are nuts the squirrels will show up.
I am glad all that intelligence is centered around the west coast.

[10x]

Gonna drive the price of brass up on police rangers. Throw down brass from a police gun at a crime scene will be very amusing.

[jmort]

I agree with the above post, if you are a Conservative, leave like I intend to do. The liberals here can have their P.C. world.

[starmac]

How long do you really think it will take to come up with a law against reusing brass???? All in the name of fighting crime, or is it to save the vultures, or worms, or whatever.

[Poohgyrr]

::: The rest of the 80 million or so gun owners had better wake up and get on board. This is not about guns and never has been.


Yup. This about increasing the control they have, piece by piece. ALSO: notice how this keeps us from fighting other battles? Voter fraud has been forgotten. Fast and furious. Foreign military/drug lords operating well within our borders. And so on....


World history says everything happening here now, has already happened in other countries. And the people decide their own future. We need to recall or vote some politicians out. And fire their civilian employees who share their beliefs. Or, not.

[BLTsandwedge]

Well, in my mind, it can't work. Even in the uber-lib senate and assembly (assembly is CA's version of the house of representatives in other states and the US Government) California is desperately trying to be fiscally conservative in favor of Brown's big projects i.e. the fast train between SF and LA. One giant stumbling block in the big picture is prison overcrowding- CA is currently being sued by the fed for just that. The next priority is water for the coastal communities to share with agriculture- CA's #1 export, agriculture- ahead of technology (despite SilliValley). Water not only affects the aforementioned #1 source of income, it HUGELY affects the #2 source of income.....tourism. How do you run a hotel in Monterey, San Francisco or LA without water?

We've seen time and again that CA communities favor income-generating programs over 'crime-prevention' programs. The sad part is that the after-school programs designed for kids that have parents that work when the kids get up and come home from shool- with no parent around 'cause they're (the parent) in the hotel or in the field....there was a suburb term developed in the '90s...latchkey-kids. You DAMN well know when the kids are on their own, they'll act out- especially if the father ran off. I'll dare say that is most of the time with current violent conditions. This isn't lib carp. If you ran off from your kids, what would you expect????? Suppose your brothers and sisters were nothing but hookers and dope dealers???? Point is....they're (the kids) are here. What are you going to do about the kids who get illegal guns?

Shift to Chicago...('my auntie bought it for me for my protection'). There it is....though it is 100,000 times illegal to conceal carry without a permit let alone be of age to carry...Auntie got me the .22 revolver an' I promised her it would never leave the house). ***??????? After-school programs work. Yep, they cost tax money. Yep, it is a liberal program that most of us don't understand. But if we don't provide a place for inter-city youth to go, they'll go to the hookers, drug dealers and bling. That'll be part of our fault....by not giving the truely working parents a shot at educating their kids outside of the crooked classroom. I'm telling you....this is word up, my friends. Due to migration, your community is not immune. Get with it....get smart.

[nvbirdman]

I just hope the manufacturers refuse to sell to California law enforcement. BTW I didn't read the link, is law enforcement exempt? If LE is exempt and somebody steals a cop gun and dosen't have it modified would the gun then be illegal? Ha ha, more illegal than just stolen of course.

[Poohgyrr]

But if we don't provide a place for inter-city youth to go, they'll go to the hookers, drug dealers and bling. That'll be part of our fault....by not giving the truely working parents a shot at educating their kids outside of the crooked classroom.

The difference between hand out and hand up is huge.
Working (especially single Mom's) parents absolutely need a hand up.

Problem that I see every single day is the social pressure for inner city youth to "not be white". That is a direct quote from I don't know how many kids - almost all without fathers. That pressure comes directly from we all know which "community leaders". Ugly but it is a fact.

And we have been giving the kids places to go - some get it but way too many have not (back to that social pressure to reject "being white").

Kids need guidance. Single parents need a hand up. Absolutely.

But we cannot ignore, or deny, the prejudice being taught to kids. We have to overcome that as well.

I remember the social programs being implemented here back in the late 1960's. Some have had some success. To the (apparent majority) unsuccessful: How has that been working for you?

I still have to wonder if all this gun control isn't mainly meant to distract us from other issues. It does not take a brain surgeon to see that microstamping is nonsense - so why have we not thrown those bums out of office yet?

[hithard]

This could be a whole new market in selling brass.....

[popper]

jcameron996 you got it right. More feelgood stuff. Actually, they laser cut the chamber like they now do on diamonds. It raises cost for guns & it may make AR uppers a lic part. If they stamped the FP, just pop the primer and it's gone. So nothing different, bad guys don't buy & register guns anyway. Originally started so that courts could identify a crime gun without ballistic tests.

[dakotashooter2]

What we need will be a pool of "tagged" brass from all over the country. We will mix it all together then load it and distribute the reloads. When the CA law enforcement finds a mag load of brass at the crime scene it will may have brass from 10-15 differents states, all which they will have to try track down............... It should be a real hoot....................The real money maker will be the guy who skims the brass from the police training range. Imagine a crime scene with ONLY brass fired from police guns...........

[wgr]

This could be a whole new market in selling brass.....
O no pre ban brass.:rolleyes:

[starmac]

Guys, it is only natural that the state of Cali will HAVE to outlaw reloading, you need to look at the bigger picture. This law won't work, was never intended to work, but the people that come up with them have their reasons.

[dakotashooter2]

We just need to alter the "border fence" to run north along the eastern CA border...............Might as well give it back to Mexico.

[10x]

Guys, it is only natural that the state of Cali will HAVE to outlaw reloading, you need to look at the bigger picture. This law won't work, was never intended to work, but the people that come up with them have their reasons.

The people who make up these laws have brains that dont' work....

[starmac]

Their brains are working overtime, and they are getting to their dreamworld one little step at a time. I doubt they will like that said dream world once it is complete though.

[Adam10mm]

I thought I had heard that micro-stamping did work as well as they had figured it would.
The entire microstamping concept is just that, a concept. It's not been tested in the real world in this industry. There was an NRA podcast a few years ago with the inventor of this concept on the mike and the host destroyed him. This guy formed a company with a patent to the concept, but then started legislation to require microstamping and basically required the ammo manufactures to develop a system for it.

[Hickory]

Common sense is no longer very common.

You're wrong.
Common sense nowadays is stupid thinking.
And stupid thinking nowadays is pretty common.

[Jammersix]

I think Mao called it The Long March.

The Long March was a specific campaign in the Chinese Civil War. The strategy during the campaign was so successful it became Chinese military doctrine through the Chinese intervention in Korea. It had nothing to do with politics.

Comments like that are why we're called gun nuts.

California is facing this law because it's the way the majority of voters in California want it.

[mac60]

Their brains are working overtime, and they are getting to their dreamworld one little step at a time. I doubt they will like that said dream world once it is complete though.

We think a lot alike, you and I. I'm absolutely sure though, that in the end even the die hard liberals who are 100% behind this agenda will wake up one day and realize what they have done was a huge mistake.

[novalty]

Guess I am a little confused. Wouldn't the microstamp leave an impression on the primer not the brass? Since it would be the primer that would contain the microstamp, then the brass comments are irrelevant, and reloading wouldn't be an issue. Despite that, I find the law ill conceived, and as mentioned the parts can easily be replaced or altered. Looks like less semi-automatic handguns will be on the California list.

[lka]

Guess I am a little confused. Wouldn't the microstamp leave an impression on the primer not the brass? Since it would be the primer that would contain the microstamp, then the brass comments are irrelevant, and reloading wouldn't be an issue. Despite that, I find the law ill conceived, and as mentioned the parts can easily be replaced or altered. Looks like less semi-automatic handguns will be on the California list.

I'm sure the state doesn't even know the answer to that question LOL

Good point though I'm sure it goes on the primer, I'm also sure it will wear off after a while, And I'm pretty damn sure that if the bad guys going to use it he will file the numbers off

[novalty]

After looking into it further (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping), it appears they would also incorporate a micro-stamp on the breech face--which would also mark the brass.