Moon Clips

[AZ-JIM]

I have shot a few pistol matches here recently and am having a blast. My problem is ( one of my problems anyway ) is my reloads are too slow, using standard twist lock speedloaders, which adds to my time unnecessarily. I think I am going to have my cylinder machined to accept moonclips. Now to the point of my post, I am looking to buy 1 moonclip if someone has one they can part with. I am a fabricator by trade and also a cheap SOB, $65 for ten moon clips seems high to me. I think for $65 worth of material I can make 60-70 of these things. And I have access to the tools to do it ( cad software and a laser ). Im not looking to steal anyones design or infringe on patents or put anyone out of business etc. Im just looking to not be separated from my money unnecessarily.
I am using a SW 586 in .357, so if someone can spare a moonclip send me a pm with what you have and what you want for it.

Thanks

az-jim

[FWest]

http://www.revolversupply.com/documents/moon_clips.html

Not cheap but better than 10 for $65

[Dale53]

I suggest you call Ranch Products by phone:
http://ranchproducts.com/

Their web site pretty much sucks but they are reliable and producers of excellent clips. I have only used their clips for .45 ACP (for my Smith 625's) but I believe I paid $35.00 a hundred delivered for their steel clips. I have not used their .38 clips. As I suggested, call them and see what they have to offer. They might save you a lot of aggravation trying to fabricate your own.

I ordered mine by phone (they primarily furnish clips to the trade).

FWIW
Dale53

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'd try some of the ones from the above sources before I reinvent the wheel. 100 for $35 is .35 each. You can't even buy the material for that, and that's if you can figure out exactly what the material is in the first place.

I also am a machinst and fabricator. I have already reinvented the wheel many times. I lost my **** every time!

Randy

[Lefty SRH]

I'll second Ranch Products, great people. Actually I need to buy another 100 for my 625.

[Lefty SRH]

What "game" are you shooting where they allow moonclips for a 38 spl/357 mag?

[AZ-JIM]

"Tuesday night steel" , I think its practical pistol for all intents and purposes. 4 courses, 20-24 shots each, knock down or hit the appropiate plates the required number of times, you get the idea. I shoot the revolver because I get all my brass back. The non shooters are supposed to help pick up while they wait their turn but it dosent seem to be a big deal if they dont get it all(semi auto)...."oh well its not mine". Its another unnecessary cost Im trying to eliminate.
Thanks for the help guys I will check it out. All I knew of before was Brownells and TK custom.

az-jim

[Stonecrusher]

Definite +1 for Ranch Products. They manufacture for the big boys like S&W and their price can't be beat.

[imashooter2]

I have a 686 seven shot that I had cut for moons as a low cost ICORE gun and ran it for a few years before I upgraded to a 627. .38/.357 moons are very brass sensitive. Ranch Products 7 shot moons work well with Federal or Remington cases. Ranch Products 8 shot moons work well with Winchester cases. I haven't used Ranch 6 shot moons.

The $35/100 is for .45 ACP moons for the 625. .38/.357 moons are (IIRC) about $75/100.

If you have a 6 shot, Safariland Comp III speed loaders are about the same speed as moons for me.

[35remington]

As long as the revolver is not to be used for serious defensive use, where going "bang" really matters, modify away.

[AZ-JIM]

As long as the revolver is not to be used for serious defensive use, where going "bang" really matters, modify away.

Why do you say that? Does modifying the cylinder to accept moon clips make it unreliable? I think there are plenty of competition shooters who would argue that. Jerry Miculek doesnt seem to have trouble with reliability. Just curious...

az-jim

[imashooter2]

.38/.357 revolvers modified for moon clips can use individually or speed loader fed cartridges without the moons with the same reliability that the gun had before the conversion. The moon clips themselves are pretty fragile and easily bent, especially when subjected to the rigors of daily carry. A subtly bent moon clip may chamber and the cylinder may close, but the case heads will bind on the recoil shield and tie up the gun. I shoot moon clip guns in competition and won't use moons for a serious purpose reload. Nothing wrong with using a moon for the initial load to take advantage of the positive extraction though. You never get a case rim under the extractor using moons.

[FN in MT]

One has to CALL Ranch Products. I tried an e mail recently and it kept getting returned ; "Unable to Deliver".

[35remington]

Shells linked to each other have to, on occasion, drag the adjacent rounds forward until the round is solidly headspaced and this takes away from the energy of the firing pin blow. This causes misfires. If the gun is held muzzle up for some reason, or even level, before firing, or if the gun is fired upward the firing pin has to drag all the rounds adjacent forward before the round is solidly headspaced.

Not good.

Adding a loose piece of metal to the headspacing equation detracts from revolver reliability, period. This isn't a problem in a shooting game like it is in real life. If at all possible, if serious use is contemplated, leave them out of the gun. Especially for the first six shots......never use moon clips for those if you don't have to. The first six are the most critical and most needed to go bang.

Speed reload versus less reliability for the subsequent shots? Your choice, your decision. But at least you now know the downside.

The first six in my Auto Rim revolvers are Auto Rims, and for a reason. The next six are Auto Rims in conventional speedloaders or moon clips, with the moon clips being considerably more fragile. But ejection from an Auto Rim revolver with its short cases and comparatively long ejector stroke is never a problem anyway. Everything clears easily.

[jdgabbard]

I'm going to disagree with you there. Rounds have to headspace anyways. And I don't see there being THAT MUCH of a difference between one round and six rounds considering the amount of headspacing it has to do. And the military apparently didn't have any issues that I'm aware of. And since it must function every time in the military, they obviously didn't have any issues with performance. So as it sits, that is a moot point.

[AZ-JIM]

Shells linked to each other have to, on occasion, drag the adjacent rounds forward until the round is solidly headspaced and this takes away from the energy of the firing pin blow. This causes misfires. If the gun is held muzzle up for some reason, or even level, before firing, or if the gun is fired upward the firing pin has to drag all the rounds adjacent forward before the round is solidly headspaced.

Not good.

Adding a loose piece of metal to the headspacing equation detracts from revolver reliability, period. This isn't a problem in a shooting game like it is in real life. If at all possible, if serious use is contemplated, leave them out of the gun. Especially for the first six shots......never use moon clips for those if you don't have to. The first six are the most critical and most needed to go bang.

Speed reload versus less reliability for the subsequent shots? Your choice, your decision. But at least you now know the downside.

The first six in my Auto Rim revolvers are Auto Rims, and for a reason. The next six are Auto Rims in conventional speedloaders or moon clips, with the moon clips being considerably more fragile. But ejection from an Auto Rim revolver with its short cases and comparatively long ejector stroke is never a problem anyway. Everything clears easily.

I see where you are coming from, from a theoretical standpoint but there are alot of people using moon clips for them to be unreliable. Granted I have yet to use them, and in combination with a muzzle up shot....which will get you a DQ at our range. I cant help but think if there is that much play where headspacing is concerned that there may be a different problem than whether the firing pin has to carry all six rounds before the primer is ignited. The chance of this particular pistol being used for a defensive situation is pretty slim but you never know. As far as a" loose piece of metal in the equation, " it sits recessed in the cylinder and the .357's still headspace on the cartridge rim, so the moon clip "floats" so to speak between the rim and the bottom of the recess, unlike the auto rim where the moon clip sets the headspace. To each his own, all Im saying is that if they didnt work fairly well there would probably be no market for them.

az-jim

[jdgabbard]

^^^^^ This. Fact is that if it was unreliable, people wouldn't use them. And they dang sure would have found out over the last 100 years whether or not they were reliable or not.

[Gunslinger1911]

Many thousands of rounds shot using moon clips, no misfires. Ranch, and polymer Rimz.

I'm sure someone, sometime had a problem in their gun with moon clips; and it gets passed along to all who listen.

I wouldn't trust ANY gun - revolver, moon clip'd or not, auto, whatever, without being sure of reliability.
I carried a 325 for a while (big, but light !!) (You wouldn't believe how big an officers eyes can get till you give him a 325 during a traffic stop !! lol). We talked guns so long, I think he forgot to give me a speeding ticket !

As has been said - too many people using moon clips - and seems lots want other guns cut for them . (T K Custom keeps coming up with more guns they can cut), to be a bad concept.

Although I will concede 45 clips are faster than 357 moon clips (short and stubby v/s long and thin).

For something like $80 for the cut and $? for a couple of clips - it's worth a try. If you don't like it, don't use the clips. Speed loaders will still work.

[35remington]

The military is not concerned with the individual.

You are.

Adding unreliability to a revolver system doesn't make it better. I speak from a practical sense in having used moon clips for years.

They bend. They cause misfires. All factually experienced by me. No imagination necessary.

[35remington]

And if the gun has to function every time......has to.....don't use a moon clip. Since there appears to be a lot of uninformed opinion present here, feel free to stop on by for a demonstration.

The clips are really very thin and as bendable as anything can ever get, and the point is hardly moot. Not when more than one poster here has mentioned their specific problems with them.

Such experience cannot be "mooted" away.

[imashooter2]

And if the gun has to function every time......has to.....don't use a moon clip. Since there appears to be a lot of uninformed opinion present here, feel free to stop on by for a demonstration.

The clips are really very thin and as bendable as anything can ever get, and the point is hardly moot. Not when more than one poster here has mentioned their specific problems with them.

Such experience cannot be "mooted" away.

While I agree with your premise for moon clipped .38/.357 reloads, the initial clip and charge can be easily checked before and after loading. Such a load does not limit reliability in any way.

[jdgabbard]

And if the gun has to function every time......has to.....don't use a moon clip. Since there appears to be a lot of uninformed opinion present here, feel free to stop on by for a demonstration.

The clips are really very thin and as bendable as anything can ever get, and the point is hardly moot. Not when more than one poster here has mentioned their specific problems with them.

Such experience cannot be "mooted" away.

Uninformed opinions, huh? You, Sir, make many assumptions without much standing. What you have just stated is just that, opinion. In which you're very entitled to make. However, from what I can tell, those of us on here who use them disagree with your opinion. I do not need a demonstration. I've taken the Smith sitting in the gun safe at my cabin out for squirrel hunting. And if you're not aiming upward when you shoot squirrel, I don't know how the heck you're shooting them. Have your opinion. And I'll keep shooting squirrel....

[35remington]

Ima, our preferences both have flaws. Reloading with a moon clip might mean you're introducing a bent clip into the revolver, which isn't good. That's your premise and it certainly has merit. That's why I mentioned my preference in reloading was with my speedloader and rimmed cartridges first. Moon clips second, individually loading cylinders would be last behind these two, to clarify. That's just too slow.

For the first six, since a rimmed case is more reliable than a clipped one, then that's the way to go. I'll stand by my opinion that heavy bulleted rounds that allow headspace slack have misfire issues with clips. Just because I've experienced it. If I can eliminate it with no downside I will do so, and the first six gotta work as they're your best chance to resolve the problem.

My comments about uninformed opinion have to do with past comments to the effect that:

If the military does it, it must be reliable.

If IPSC/shooting game du jour does it, it must be reliable.

The implication is that clipped rounds don't detract from reliability. My experience is they do....and I stand by the premise and fact that introducing a loose piece of metal into the gun certainly doesn't improve reliability. And it may not be neutral, either. That's my experience, and simple reasoning about additional complexity introducing downsides may have some merit even if you haven't been there yet. I have.

If I myself experienced it, it's only opinion, never really happened and it's relevant for no one else? Be careful here. I'm an ordinary guy shooting ordinary guns and what has happened to me very well may happen to someone else given the same situations. Thus my discomfort with someone stating my assertions are completely unfounded and "moot" as was said earlier. Gee, if they happened to me and happened for others, how moot can this opinion be? Noted gunwriters said clips can be a problem. It's been stated in print many times. Lots of other guys who could weigh in here just haven't come across this thread.

I hardly stand alone here in pointing out their flaws. If you doubt, I'll name some of those who've said so and you may question their bona fides and "standing" as well. My own standing has been about thirty year's use of clips in revolvers. I'd like to think that does in fact give me some standing.

The comments about the military and IPSC use of moon clips being an endorsement for reliability aren't entirely true or even the representative picture. The military adopted moon clips to press revolvers into service when it was evident that 1911's could not be produced in quantity fast enough. The desire was to use the rounds (45 ACP) on hand. If maximum reliability was desired a rimmed cartridge would have been introduced. To simplify logistics and prevent issuing a new cartridge for arms that were not standard issue a temporary fix was presented. This shouldn't be confused with an endorsement of supreme reliability with no downside to their use. Rather that this expedient was "good enough"......for an army.

Shooting games often introduce work arounds to rules that reduce reliablity......for example, the flush fit 8 shot magazine to get the "edge" of an additional shot. Most reliable way to do it? Don't count on the gamesmanship shooting events to be fully representative of that either. Some of the things done in the name of gamesmanship and rule beating have detracted from reliability as much as enhanced it. There's more than a few things that serve as examples.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive used moon clip guns for years and if i ever had a problem it was due to my own fault with my loading. There absoultely just as reliable as a non clipped gun. Ive got 3 moon clip guns right now and have owned as many as 6 and have never had a clip bend or get destroyed. Lots of misinformation gets posted about things like this. Kind of like when the police started going to semi autos and people claimed they were nuts because semi autos arent reliable like a revolver. One thing is for sure when you compare a clipped gun to a non clipped gun is ease of loading. Ive watch many many shooters in competition under pressure struggle with a speedloader and NONE stuggle with a moon clip.

[imashooter2]

-snip-

For the first six, since a rimmed case is more reliable than a clipped one, then that's the way to go. I'll stand by my opinion that heavy bulleted rounds that allow headspace slack have misfire issues with clips. Just because I've experienced it. If I can eliminate it with no downside I will do so, and the first six gotta work as they're your best chance to resolve the problem.

-snip-

The .38/.357 moon clip conversions that are the OPs subject of discussion are rimmed cartridges and modified guns do headspace on the rim the same as factory.

[35remington]

No argument with that. My concern is when the clips are present. My point is not to use them if possible when they are a downside.

Another relevant point is that such misfires are more likely to be produced double action than single action, as the hammer has less distance and time to build up speed and momentum. Single action firing hides such problems more often.

Lloyd, handled even slightly roughly or when removing the spent rounds I've bent clips repeatedly and I wasn't trying to bend them as they aren't free. I cannot say they've been absolutely reliable because they haven't been. Many others share the same opinion, some from people of note. I wouldn't categorize information about the clip's downsides as "misinformation" unless you're prepared to question the comments of individuals with impeccable credentials in handgun shooting. They have concerns, too.

Some of those early semiautos weren't as reliable as later designs and the criticism of their reliability was justified.

[AZ-JIM]

Another relevant point is that such misfires are more likely to be produced double action than single action, as the hammer has less distance and time to build up speed and momentum. Single action firing hides such problems more often.


Im not picking on you, I dont think the others are either, I like the discussion but Im not sure I agree with this either. If a trigger job is done on said pistol and springs are lightened, etc. like I would expect on a "competition" gun, you could potentially loose inertia with the standard hammer. I cant say for certain about all makes and models wether target hammers are available, which have a wider spur, which in turn makes them heavier. My pistol has both, the trigger job and a target hammer. What this gives you, even though you have less spring tension behind the hammer, the hammer has more mass, in turn keeping the inertia it needs to do its job, double or single action. I dont know what your particular setup is, but could this be a contributing factor to what you have experienced?

az-jim

[35remington]

The guns are stock and have no issues when clips are not used.
Single action hammer fall has more oomph with most unmodified wheel guns, simply a function of physics.

The point I'd most like to make is not to take the effects of clips for granted. Under some conditions they will bite you and that's not a maybe.

They are unarguably fragile and add slack and resisting inertia to the firing sequence. Test your revolver under worst case conditions and inspect the clips regularly for bends. Don't stick loaded clips in a pants pocket and expect them to stay unbent.

[larryp]

If your moon clips are bending that easy then you have some cheaply made ones. Quality ones are tempered spring steel and even with some rough handling and twisting when loading and unloading rounds in them mine have ALWAYS snapped back perfectly flat and worked fine. If yours are bending so easy they were probably not tempered properly.

[jdgabbard]

Sir, don't take my statement the wrong way. You, Sir, have much, much more experience then myself. I'm 30 years old. I've been shooting since I was about 10 years old. And spent the better half of a decade in the military and an religious shooter of all makes and models of firearms. I've carried a pistol with me since the age of 21 years of age (the soonest my state allows you to carry). I normally put between 500-1000 rounds down range each and every range session. And practice on each type of firearm on a regular basis. Went through the Army's ARM course as an 11B, and the Squad Designated Marksman course. Only to later take a Long Range Marksmanship put on by my unit while overseas. I've deployed to a combat zone, as an Infantryman running missions in No-Man's land. And belief in simplicity, as it has been more than apparent to me what will, and what will not, work.

And while not the most proficient in any type of firearm, I'll guarantee you that I am much better equipped than many. As a soldier, and as a civilian who preps for the worst, I will say that without a doubt I thoroughly check every thing I consider carrying for reliability. It gets probably 4-5 times the amount of range time most give before it meets my expectations as a carry piece.

Now I'm not rattling off these things as qualifications. I'm merely relaying my experiences. If I'm having a problem with any particular item, I evaluate it. If it is an issue on my behalf, I correct it. If it is a problem with the function of the item, I replace it. I spent almost a third of my life in a lifestyle that if something didn't work, you figure out how to correct it or replace it. And it wasn't a matter of going to the range, but rather an issue of whether or not you would come home. Which, when we're talking about dependability is of direct relation.

I understand you're experience. And respect it. If it doesn't work for you, then it is something that is obviously flawed in your system. Replace it. In MY experience, it is more than adequate. And suits the purpose. I'll never be the one to say "you're wrong". For all I know your setup(s) may very well give you issues. Mine does not.

I hope you don't take any of that personal, as I believe we all want to give advice in the right direction on this forum. However, as stated above, it is just your opinion. And mine is just mine. But stuff gets thrown around the net quite a bit, when frankly it's only your, and those you speak of's, opinion.

Wish the best, Brother.

[jdgabbard]

And as for the writers... Willing to bet 90%+ haven't ever had to rely on anything when it matters....

[Lloyd Smale]

Only moon clips ive ever bent were ones i made up for myself out of smith 25 clips for shooting acps in my moon clipped 454 alaskan. To get acps to work you have to take a standard smith 25 clip and put it on a mill and reduce the thickness by about half and it makes them a bit fragile. Im sure milling them also takes some of the temper out of them. Heck if your worried about bending them use the ritz synthentic ones. Like ive said ive never personaly bent a quality clip so i dont worry about it. Im sure it could be done but then again i guess if your that tough on equiptment youd probably better give some consern to bending the cylinder crane too. Ive shot competition for years along side of others using moon clipped guns and dont remember even one instance of a gun gettting tied up that could be blamed on moon clips.
No argument with that. My concern is when the clips are present. My point is not to use them if possible when they are a downside.

Another relevant point is that such misfires are more likely to be produced double action than single action, as the hammer has less distance and time to build up speed and momentum. Single action firing hides such problems more often.

Lloyd, handled even slightly roughly or when removing the spent rounds I've bent clips repeatedly and I wasn't trying to bend them as they aren't free. I cannot say they've been absolutely reliable because they haven't been. Many others share the same opinion, some from people of note. I wouldn't categorize information about the clip's downsides as "misinformation" unless you're prepared to question the comments of individuals with impeccable credentials in handgun shooting. They have concerns, too.

Some of those early semiautos weren't as reliable as later designs and the criticism of their reliability was justified.

[imashooter2]

I've bent plenty of clips... dropping them with rounds still in them on hard surfaces, hitting them against something while on my belt or having them stepped on. I cannot picture how I would bend one inserting into or ejecting from the cylinder.

[9.3X62AL]

I can see both sides of this discussion. My preference is to do without the clips except when absolutely required, as in the case of my now-departed S&W Model 25-2 and the rimless ACP ammo I had on hand at the time. Once I got ahold of 45 Auto Rim brass, I quit using clips and got HKS speed loaders for the AR ammo. This was a response to training, since my work guns were fed from HKS loaders at the time--and I became very adept at their use. I still use HKS loaders in my D/A wheelguns, and while they may not be as fast as a clipped fill-up......the system is what I know best.

[country gent]

Here one not mentioned but I have several speed loders for my revolvers by safariland. similar to HKS but no knobs to twist or turn. rounds are put in and "set" , when loading push into cylinder hear a click and drop. They work great are much faster than the HKS version and dont require modifications to gun. I have used them for years with my J frame carry guns. Check brownells I think thats where I ordered mine.

[9.3X62AL]

Safariland loaders are more positive in action, and work quite well. The HKS system puts the ammo in a slight bind as the knob is twisted, and the user needs to learn to "back off" the twist once the detent is overcome. The only real down-side to the SL loaders is that they aren't made in the wide array of calibers and variants that HKS has expanded into. I wondered about the SL loaders being a bit more dirt-sensitive than the HKS, but never saw this crop up at the range--and a lot of our deputies used SL loaders when wheelguns reigned on the range.

[35remington]

jd, the point is the military often doesn't issue a particular weapons system like a moon clip because it is the "most reliable" way to do it......it's often because said system fits within the military's ability to supply it with the least amount of bother.

That's not the same thing as a reliability endorsement for an individual. Just that it's good enough for an army.

Brian Pearce is one writer that seems to have considerable field experience with them, and mentions his love/hate regard for them. Cites their ability to bend easily and cause misfires and the inability to "top off" a revolver that has only fired a few rounds. Instead of removing only a fired round or two one has to completely unload the revolver, and a fired round being present (blunt cylinder grabbing empty case) absolutely precludes that same clip from being reinserted into the revolver quickly in case of emergency. In that case you'd be as well off loading loose rounds individually.

Ima, the issue of headspace slack still comes up for me. Shooting upward in a defensive scenario is quite possible. As in when you've been knocked down. I've been around enough fights in high school and college to know that a lot of them result in winding up on the ground. The double action hammer strike is lighter, and less forgiving. I will not compromise in this regard. The first six gotta go bang. Have to. I will not willingly add a loose, slack inducing, potentially reliability reducing metal widget to my revolver for those first six shots.

Personal preference formulated through taking some of that experience into account.

Bent clips are so utterly common in actual usage that I take that it will happen as a preventative measure and handle them very, very gingerly. Quite frankly, everyone should already be doing this, and if you're not, take it as good advice. I used to walk the backwaters and sloughs of the Missouri river a lot and a revolver was a handy thing to have with no chasing of ejected brass from an autoloader. So my experience likens to that of using them for actual defensive carry purposes, where daily actions affect the reliability of your equipment.

This wasn't "range only" use, and I'm unaware of any range use that duplicates what one encounters in real life. Range use doesn't carry the clips around to any degree on one's person for any length of time. Range use doesn't uncover all or even most of the clip's weaknesses.

Stuff a few clips in your jeans pocket, front or back, for your outdoor shooting as you do your woods walking and hiking? Very likely, bent clip.
Put them in speedloader pouches on a belt, when said pouches are just strips of nonrigid leather, and bump against something? Bent clip.
As was mentioned, drop them on a hard surface, bent clip.
Leave them in your coat on the seat of your pickup, and sit on them or put something even moderately heavy on them like a gallon of milk? Bent clip.

I've done all the above. Said clips were not cheap, and ranged from the ones the factory provided to Ranch Products clips, which are not cheaply made. The idea that only cheap second rate clips bend is factually not true in my considerable experience.

C'mon. They're very thin sheet steel. Hardly bendproof, and such can be done with little effort no matter who makes them.

Bent clips are often only detectable after you try to fire the ammunition they contain, or when the cartridges are removed and they are placed on a dead flat surface.

Regard all dropped, bumped, or roughly handled clips as potentially misfire producing and discontinue them for use until they are thoroughly checked out, preferably with a firing test.

It's that important, and they are that easy to damage.

Lloyd, I baby my equipment, and my guns barely have scratches on them despite considerable use. Moon clips are that fragile, and daily life damages them. At some point when carrying them you forget they are there, and that's when the damage occurs. Being fumble fingered and dropping them doesn't help, but then I've never been drop proof. Stuff happens.

[Lloyd Smale]

Maybe you should consider trying some of the synthetic clips. I dont know how you could possibly hurt one of them unless you lit it on fire.

[imashooter2]

-snip-

Ima, the issue of headspace slack still comes up for me. Shooting upward in a defensive scenario is quite possible. As in when you've been knocked down. I've been around enough fights in high school and college to know that a lot of them result in winding up on the ground. The double action hammer strike is lighter, and less forgiving. I will not compromise in this regard. The first six gotta go bang. Have to. I will not willingly add a loose, slack inducing, potentially reliability reducing metal widget to my revolver for those first six shots.

-snip-

I understand what you are saying, but moon clipped .38/.357 headspaces on the cartridge rim. It does not headspace on the clip. The clip floats in an undercut. I've already stated I agree with you on clip durability and bending regards daily carry for use in reloads. But the drawbacks that you postulate for the initial loading simply do not exist in moon clipped .38/.357 revolvers. You can continue to state they do, but I will continue to disagree.

[eveready]

I've shot moon clips in S&W 627, 610 , and 625 revolvers and don't have problems with bent clips unless some bottom feeder shooter steps on them. I do check all my clips while unloading them. It only takes a couple seconds to lay them on a flat surface to check them. I shoot indoors on concrete floors often and have no problem with them bending when dropped with loaded cartridges in them. I shoot 230 grain in the 625 so if there was a problem it would certainly show up with them.

[imashooter2]

It's rare, but it does happen. The clip has to hit just right, and the thicker clips of the 625 are less likely to bend than the thinner, larger 627 clips.

[35remington]

Ima, I do understand the recess is present in the cylinder and the clip resides in it. The problem is that some headspace slack exists between case head and recoil shield and the cartridge is tied to those adjacent to it.

In those situations where the cartridge head rests against the recoil shield when the firing pin is dropped, cushioning of the firing pin blow still occurs as the case drags the adjacent ones forward until it solidly headspaces. I'd rather the firing pin moved one cartridge at a time. Not three or more.

[Fluxed]

I'll come down on the side of "yes moon clips do bend and do cause trouble". They get ejected hard, sometimes kicked and rolled around in gravel. Stepped on is the worst. I check my used ones before match on a granite surface plate. Generally, about half are bent enough to make me put them in the cull pile. I then go through the brand new ones and inspect them the same way. The flat ones go to the match, the not-so-flat ones go in the "new but bent" pile.

I find the 625 S&W (with moon clips) to be quite a tease. I want it to be what a revolver is supposed to be (totally and numbingly dependable) but the reality is that it is a fairly fickle device when shot hard in competition. I have to stay on top of mine or it fails me from time to time. When it works as its supposed to, it is a joy to run. I'd think twice about carrying it for protection, though a full power spring may overcome the issue.

My standard revolvers that shoot regular rimmed ammo never seem to be so afflicted. But they are too slow to reload against the clock.

[imashooter2]

Ima, I do understand the recess is present in the cylinder and the clip resides in it. The problem is that some headspace slack exists between case head and recoil shield and the cartridge is tied to those adjacent to it.

In those situations where the cartridge head rests against the recoil shield when the firing pin is dropped, cushioning of the firing pin blow still occurs as the case drags the adjacent ones forward until it solidly headspaces. I'd rather the firing pin moved one cartridge at a time. Not three or more.

The cartridges are not rigidly tied together in the moon clip. They move independently. Your problem statement relies on a condition that does not exist.

[HATCH]

In those situations where the cartridge head rests against the recoil shield when the firing pin is dropped, cushioning of the firing pin blow still occurs as the case drags the adjacent ones forward until it solidly headspaces. I'd rather the firing pin moved one cartridge at a time. Not three or more.

I have NEVER had that problem and I have fired thousands of moon clipped round in my 625s (yes I own more then one 625 in 45acp)

The problem that I did have is finish boolit size. The moon clips space the boolit out. I have had a couple rounds that were slightly oversize (in diameter) that would not fit into the cylinder when it was on a moonclip yet would fit in the cylinder loose.
On the ones on clips I could just turn the loaded round on the clip and it would work. Kinda like it was oval or something. I don't know.
I have since tightened up my SOP so I don't have any issues any more.

[35remington]

I have, and I have fired thousands of moon clipped rounds in various revolvers as well. Not just 625's.

I'll stick with my comment that adding a loose piece of metal to the headspacing equation certainly doesn't improve revolver reliability.

[35remington]

Ima, if the round is rearward, the clip can be, and often is, rearward and resting on the front face of the rim along with the adjoining rounds. Upon the firing pin striking the primer, other rounds can move forward as the motion of the clip is not completely in line with the cartridge case walls of the adjoining rounds as the firing pin strike is off center of the cylinder.

Shift the rounds rearward in the cylinder when clipped and look at them, as well as the relationship of the clip. Now pull the trigger and see how many of them went forward. Dropping the hammer slowly as well as quickly sometimes helps.

I'll take issue with your point and leave it at that. The condition does exist when I've examined my revolvers. Since nothing further is gained by stating "yes it is no it isn't" back and forth endlessly, I leave it for interested parties to manipulate their revolvers themselves.