You have to love the ebay scammers selling for more than new price

[6bg6ga]

A recent look on ebay for a set of used carbide 9mm dies brought up a Dillon set of 9mm dies, conversion kit for the 650 and powder measure with stand. The poweder measure was an early model with the return spring on it. Everything was used. The seller only wanted $30.00 more than new price for all his used equipment. Total new price $269.85 his price $299.00 plus $20.00 shipping.

[r1kk1]

When I list my stuff and I'm a 1st time seller, I hope prices will go through the roof. I don't look for deals on eBay. The market will dictate selling price. My buddy wanted 357 Sig dies. I told him to order through Dillon. He complained about the b.o. situation. Oh well. I've been waiting on Starline to catch up. I have patience. He didn't.

I pay what I want to pay for new or used.

Take care

r1kk1

[possom813]

Not exactly a scammer, just a high-priced seller.

One must remember, a person can ask whatever they want for what they own, that doesn't mean they'll get that price. The market will always dictate the price.

My mother used to tell me all the time, "Whatever you've got is only worth what someone's willing to pay for it."(grew up in a resale lifestyle).

That being said, his equipment isn't "used", it's "vintage" :kidding:

[mdi]

A lot is just what the market will bear. If someone looks at "normal" reloading suppliers and sees "back order only" they may get impatient and buy out of desperation, and wind up paying more. I bought a 21 lbs. of linotype last week, and got it for a good price, mainly because the auction ending time was Sunday night, not too many viewers. I believe the "scammers" are the ones that have a minimum "starting bid" that's over retail...

[possom813]

The 'scammer' isn't the gentleman who prices his item too high.

I just feel the need to clarify this.

The scammer is the guy that manipulates the system to end up with the cash and the item for sale.

And yes, I know/learned this from the experiences of being scammed on a handful of occasions dealing with sportscards.

It's a catch 22, ebay requires you to use paypal, and paypal can be manipulated.

I don't feel the need to post how to manipulate it on a public forum, but if you're interested in how to guard yourself against the manipulation:

Operate 100% within their rules, that's the only viable option.

Anything mailed that's worth over $50, add insurance to it, it's an additional $2-3, but it's worth it in most cases.

If you mail anything over $100, require signature confirmation

If you feel uneasy about a transaction for a significant sum of money, add insurance and require sig confirmation

If you're doing a deal via paypal for money you can't afford to lose, make sure the sender of the funds is a 'confirmed' user of paypal, not halfway confirmed, which they've started showing as 'confirmed' with a little exclamation icon next to it.

Only ship to the address listed on their paypal, don't ship to a different address, you won't be covered with the paypal protection(back to their rules)

Don't accept overpayments through paypal

Don't accept gift payments for goods(once they catch on, they'll freeze/suspend your account and you get money frozen)

Don't accept a partial refund on anything you've bought, once you receive a partial refund on something you plan to return, it makes it difficult to get the rest of your money if you have to open a dispute against the seller.




I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I just woke up

[Travtastik]

Also some people can not get a credit card but can get a Paypal buyers account. Basically a Paypal credit card that is not a physical card so you can only use it online. I know a guy that does this and buys everything off eBay. Sometimes he way over pays but as he says its the only way he can get it.

[Love Life]

Are they scammers now? A few weeks ago they were only gougers...

[texassako]

A lot of these high priced sellers also ship overseas. Limited or no local availability and the ability to conduct the whole transaction within ebay and paypal can create the appearance of high prices.

['74 sharps]

May be a seller that has no idea of what the cost would be from a dealer today.

[starmac]

Also some people can not get a credit card but can get a Paypal buyers account. Basically a Paypal credit card that is not a physical card so you can only use it online. I know a guy that does this and buys everything off eBay. Sometimes he way over pays but as he says its the only way he can get it.

Something seriously wrong with this thinking. How could one not be able to get a debit card???

[jcwit]

So now I see its the fools buying merchandise not realizing its actual lesser value that are dictating the market price.

OOOOOOOooooooooooooKay!

But then it is an auction.

[jcwit]

Something seriously wrong with this thinking. How could one not be able to get a debit card???

Exactly, while I have credit cards, I use a bank debit card for E-Bay. Why? I'm less likely to overspend this way.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I love watching this stuff. I call it trolling for a big fish.

When I see something that is obviously over priced I usually go,,,, Uffff! and move on.

There is a small green arbor press on ebay right now in the "vintage" reloading tools section. It has been on that site for better than a year. It is an arbor press that was bought out of Litton industries in Thousand Oaks CA. It even says Litton on it. The starting price was $349.95! it is worth $20 on a good day as it is nothing more than a Chinese 1/2T arbor press available at Harbor Freight for $29.95.

This guy knows damn good and well what this tool is worth. He is trolling for a fish to jump in his boat. Simple as that. Maybe someday he will get lucky.

I hope the listing fees from ebay eventually eat him alive.

Knowing what you are buying and what it is worth is key to operating in todays world. Ebay, Craigs List, and all of the others should require a big "Caveat Emptor" sign on every thing they list for sale.

This all holds true even when we are experiencing gouging like in most recent times.

You need to know what you are buying and what it is worth.

Patience is another point. I have found that if you "Must Have" something, you will probably get screwed when you buy it. I've done it ,,, you have too!

Not having to have something , or a take it or leave it attitude is how you get bargains.

Just relax and if you see somethng for a price you are willing to pay, buy it. If you don't feel you're getting screwed, then you aren't.

If you in fact did get screwed then it's on you, not them, for not knowing what you're buying and what it is worth.

Educate yourself before you buy anything. You'll save alot of money when you do.

Randy

[Love Life]

My personal woe story.

I wanted to start back into reloading 45 acp for a 1911 I acquired. I thought I had everything until I opened my box of Dillon 45 ACP dies. At some point I had sold the dies, and stuck a set of 357 magnum dies into the box. I'm not really sure why I have so many sets of 357 magnum dies, but I digress...

So there I was in the middle of the worst firearms, ammo, components, and reloading equipment shortage I have ever seen in my short lifetime, and I needed 45 acp dies.

What did I do? I swallowed the lump in my throat, and paid above new prices for a set of used 45 acp dies (they were in great condition though). Had to be done. The funny part? The Dillon dies I back ordered showed up 5 weeks early!!!

Know what an item is worth on both the selling and buying side.

Pay what you are willing to pay, and charge according to how fast you need to move it, or a value that makes you happy.

[jcwit]

My personal woe story.

I wanted to start back into reloading 45 acp for a 1911 I acquired. I thought I had everything until I opened my box of Dillon 45 ACP dies. At some point I had sold the dies, and stuck a set of 357 magnum dies into the box. I'm not really sure why I have so many sets of 357 magnum dies, but I digress...

So there I was in the middle of the worst firearms, ammo, components, and reloading equipment shortage I have ever seen in my short lifetime, and I needed 45 acp dies.

What did I do? I swallowed the lump in my throat, and paid above new prices for a set of used 45 acp dies (they were in great condition though). Had to be done. The funny part? The Dillon dies I back ordered showed up 5 weeks early!!!

Know what an item is worth on both the selling and buying side.

Pay what you are willing to pay, and charge according to how fast you need to move it, or a value that makes you happy.


I love watching this stuff. I call it trolling for a big fish.

When I see something that is obviously over priced I usually go,,,, Uffff! and move on.

There is a small green arbor press on ebay right now in the "vintage" reloading tools section. It has been on that site for better than a year. It is an arbor press that was bought out of Litton industries in Thousand Oaks CA. It even says Litton on it. The starting price was $349.95! it is worth $20 on a good day as it is nothing more than a Chinese 1/2T arbor press available at Harbor Freight for $29.95.

This guy knows damn good and well what this tool is worth. He is trolling for a fish to jump in his boat. Simple as that. Maybe someday he will get lucky.

I hope the listing fees from ebay eventually eat him alive.

Knowing what you are buying and what it is worth is key to operating in todays world. Ebay, Craigs List, and all of the others should require a big "Caveat Emptor" sign on every thing they list for sale.

This all holds true even when we are experiencing gouging like in most recent times.

You need to know what you are buying and what it is worth.

Patience is another point. I have found that if you "Must Have" something, you will probably get screwed when you buy it. I've done it ,,, you have too!

Not having to have something , or a take it or leave it attitude is how you get bargains.

Just relax and if you see somethng for a price you are willing to pay, buy it. If you don't feel you're getting screwed, then you aren't.

If you in fact did get screwed then it's on you, not them, for not knowing what you're buying and what it is worth.

Educate yourself before you buy anything. You'll save alot of money when you do.



These two posts pretty much cover it all as far as buying whatever one wishes.

Another hobby of mine is collecting watches. Couple of days ago I saw a Tag Heurer chronograph at a pawn shop, I went home an researched that particular model on the net, found what they sold for and returned to buy it. Got it for $300.00 out the door. Drove to one of the better high end jewelers here for check up and cleaning, they appraised it at $1,500.00. Only thing I'm missing is the box it came in and the pillow. Those are now on order from the Bay for $35.00.

Pays to do your homework and $300 was not the market value, but I got a heck of a value!

[6bg6ga]

Are they scammers now? A few weeks ago they were only gougers...


I used an incorrect word.....scammers. Yes, a few weeks ago they were simply gougers. Actually I cannot tell you what I actually think of them language wise because like some of my other posts it will simply come up missing.

[dragon813gt]

It's an auction site. Everyone is an adult and is capable of making their own decisions. Only the buyer can say if he overpaid or not. Sometimes they will admit they overpaid. Sometimes they feel that they got a good deal because of the current market conditions. And don't forget that eBay is worldwide. Just because something is $30 new here doesn't mean that it's $30 new in Europe. For some items eBay is the only way to purchase certain items in their country.

I don't understand people's obsession w/ what other people buy and sell for. Spend what you're willing and move in if it goes to high. I never hear a buyer say he ripped off a seller. You always hear about how they got a great deal. Ever stop and think that the seller might not be happy because the item sold for less then he hoped it would?

[lka]

I needed new .223 dies, I wanted them quick so I figured I would overpay on ebay and get it over with, I ordered them, waited a week and no dies, I finally got ahold of the joker and asked ***, he said they weren't in stock and it would be any day now,,I said NO! I didn't overpay for something on back order, I overpaid to get the stuff quicker, he refunded me and Im done with eBay, I'll wait on BO with midway if needed...

Oh-yeah I found the dies a few weeks later at a shop for normal price ;)

[6bg6ga]

I'm just upset that every moron thinks they have to profit in the midst of a shortage. Try to purchase 22LR ammunition nowdays. Try to purchase large or small pistol primers and you will see the price has been jacked up dispite the fact the price on an invoice I saw was the same.

The reloading equipment that I mentioned is clearly not worth more than the current full price of $269.85 delivered to my door based on my zip code and shipping costs. Will I pay it....hell no. I will go without first or borrow from someone I know that has the dies, plate, conversion kit, and powder drop.

Yes, I called this guy a scammer and in my mind he probably is. People like this generally frequent garage sales when a womans husband passed away and they offer her 10 cents on the dollar for her husbands reloading equipment and tools and then auction them off on ebay as having owned them and their superior condition and for more than current price.
So excuse me if my feathers get ruffled by these idiots and the idiots that actually purchase the overpriced items from them.

[dragon813gt]

So you're mad that someone else is making money? I don't get this attitude. There are two ways to handle shortages. Rationing and jacking prices up to curb demand. If people are willing to pay the high prices there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Why even waste time and energy on it? Pay what you're willing to pay move on.

[lka]

So you're mad that someone else is making money? I don't get this attitude. There are two ways to handle shortages. Rationing and jacking prices up to curb demand. If people are willing to pay the high prices there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Why even waste time and energy on it? Pay what you're willing to pay move on.

I will admit, I got a couple 10/22 mags from big 5, my dad goes hey I have a ton and gave me a few, I decided to put one on eBay as an Auction, it went for 100.00!!! I thought about selling the other one but the harder in me wouldn't allow it, I figured they must be hard to find and worth keeping, I keep an eye out for them and haven't seen another locally.

[TNsailorman]

ebay, gunbroker, etc. are market driven. Sometimes the price is extremely high and sometimes not. I recently saw a set of .223 Remington dies go for over $150.00 plus shipping. But then again, last week I saw a Lyman .45 acp resize die, carbide no less, in excellent to new condition go for $4.95 plus shipping. I was tempted but passed on it because I didn't need it. Maybe the guy that bid on it did. I set a rule for myself, if it is used in excellent condition and not priced more than 50% of new I will buy if I need it. If not, no bid. I would not even think about bidding on one of these sites unless I have either have done research on prices and quality of the item. You have to have discipline, patience, and goals for yourself in life. Otherwise, life is spent drifting in the current, a rudderless ship being controlled by forces of which you have no control. I had to learn this the hard way. james

[jmorris]

I sold a 650 on EBay a few weeks ago for over $1800.

In what way did I "scam" the winning bidder?

This is what's wrong with this Country, someone makes a decision without force or duress and it's someone else's fault? Maybe you can see if your President will just provide you with one "for free" (aka steeling money from others than have earned it to pay for it) talk about a scam...I would get arrested doing something like that.

[Recluse]

I don't understand people's obsession w/ what other people buy and sell for. Spend what you're willing and move in if it goes to high. I never hear a buyer say he ripped off a seller. You always hear about how they got a great deal. Ever stop and think that the seller might not be happy because the item sold for less then he hoped it would?


I sold a 650 on EBay a few weeks ago for over $1800.

In what way did I "scam" the winning bidder?

This is what's wrong with this Country, someone makes a decision without force or duress and it's someone else's fault? Maybe you can see if your President will just provide you with one "for free" (aka steeling money from others than have earned it to pay for it) talk about a scam...I would get arrested doing something like that.

In law enforcement, we have a term called "professional victim" and it basically applies to anyone who sets themselves up, especially by their miserable attitudes, to be victimized or traumatized.

The beauty of this country is that we have a choice when it comes to our personal purchases. If you want to outbid someone on an auction site for a Dillon reloading press, then that is not only YOUR right, but it is the seller's right to allow the item to be sold for twice or three times (or more) the original value.

Value is subjective. That 650 may be worth for more to the winning bidder than the $1800 he/she paid for it. They may have their reasons for paying that much and if so, that is also their business and nobody else's.

Like many others, I'm amazed, and a bit dismayed, at the minority of socialists we have in our membership--especially those who whine about encroachment of our Bill of Rights and in the same breath demand more government intervention and regulation when it comes to "running retail businesses." Online opportunities have changed the face of business everywhere and I, for one, like it. It has helped level the playing field and allowed small and sole proprietors to sell their wares and make a living.

Apparently we have some big-government types around here who don't like that. As soon as I spot them, I put them on my Ignore List because I could give a rat's rear-end less about the opinions and thoughts of a socialist.

:coffee:

[Smoke4320]

In law enforcement, we have a term called "professional victim" and it basically applies to anyone who sets themselves up, especially by their miserable attitudes, to be victimized or traumatized.

The beauty of this country is that we have a choice when it comes to our personal purchases. If you want to outbid someone on an auction site for a Dillon reloading press, then that is not only YOUR right, but it is the seller's right to allow the item to be sold for twice or three times (or more) the original value.

Value is subjective. That 650 may be worth for more to the winning bidder than the $1800 he/she paid for it. They may have their reasons for paying that much and if so, that is also their business and nobody else's.

Like many others, I'm amazed, and a bit dismayed, at the minority of socialists we have in our membership--especially those who whine about encroachment of our Bill of Rights and in the same breath demand more government intervention and regulation when it comes to "running retail businesses." Online opportunities have changed the face of business everywhere and I, for one, like it. It has helped level the playing field and allowed small and sole proprietors to sell their wares and make a living.

Apparently we have some big-government types around here who don't like that. As soon as I spot them, I put them on my Ignore List because I could give a rat's rear-end less about the opinions and thoughts of a socialist.

:coffee:

amen Brother ..
If you don't like the price don't buy .. no one is forcing you to .. wait a bit ...when the rush is over prices will return to more normal ranges..

[Love Life]

Socialists make me angry. They do not belong in America, but the beautiful thing about freedom is that they are allowed to live here and prosper. Sigh....

This shortage has brought out the best and the worse of the reloading community. On the good side it has also allowd me to find out who the socialists are. Nice...

[jcwit]

Well good ol' Sam didn't build his empire by being a socialist or by overcharging. And the fair market value of products sold there is not set by those on food stamps.

[dragon813gt]

Do you really want to get into a debate about Wal-Marts's business practices? To say they are squeaky clean and on the up and up would be a lie. I personally have no issue w/ them. But there are plenty of small stores that have been put out of business by them that most certainly do.

As stated above the Internet has changed the way business is done. Wal-Mart might not have been able to grow as large if they started today.

[Love Life]

The small business can always compete...

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you watch the TV show "Survivor" You'll see that they have a food auction in every season. People are given $500 to purchase what ever they want.

The smart ones pay it all as soon as they see something they want. Some people never even bid.

It is a perfect example of supply and demand. Short supply and high demand.

"Caveat Emptor" is the only phrase that really covers this whole subject adequately. For those of you Non-Latin speaking folks,,, it''s

"Buyer Beware!"

Ultimately only "you" can prevent "you" from getting screwed! And only "you" should decide "if" you got screwed!

Randy

[jcwit]

Do you really want to get into a debate about Wal-Marts's business practices? To say they are squeaky clean and on the up and up would be a lie. I personally have no issue w/ them. But there are plenty of small stores that have been put out of business by them that most certainly do.

As stated above the Internet has changed the way business is done. Wal-Mart might not have been able to grow as large if they started today.

Sam's business practices were entirely different from what WalMarts practices are today!

[jeff423]

I recently stopped loading .40 S&W. I put my Lee Factory Crimp Die on eBay starting at $1.00. It sold for $40.00 plus shipping. Does that make me a scammer/gouger? It's called "Free Enterprise". BTW the buyer was pleased and left positive feedback.

Jeff

[lka]

In law enforcement, we have a term called "professional victim" and it basically applies to anyone who sets themselves up, especially by their miserable attitudes, to be victimized or traumatized.

The beauty of this country is that we have a choice when it comes to our personal purchases. If you want to outbid someone on an auction site for a Dillon reloading press, then that is not only YOUR right, but it is the seller's right to allow the item to be sold for twice or three times (or more) the original value.

Value is subjective. That 650 may be worth for more to the winning bidder than the $1800 he/she paid for it. They may have their reasons for paying that much and if so, that is also their business and nobody else's.

Like many others, I'm amazed, and a bit dismayed, at the minority of socialists we have in our membership--especially those who whine about encroachment of our Bill of Rights and in the same breath demand more government intervention and regulation when it comes to "running retail businesses." Online opportunities have changed the face of business everywhere and I, for one, like it. It has helped level the playing field and allowed small and sole proprietors to sell their wares and make a living.

Apparently we have some big-government types around here who don't like that. As soon as I spot them, I put them on my Ignore List because I could give a rat's rear-end less about the opinions and thoughts of a socialist.

:coffee:

Lol funny ****!

[jcwit]

I recently stopped loading .40 S&W. I put my Lee Factory Crimp Die on eBay starting at $1.00. It sold for $40.00 plus shipping. Does that make me a scammer/gouger? It's called "Free Enterprise". BTW the buyer was pleased and left positive feedback.

Jeff

No it does not, the buyers decided how much they were willing to pay. I've seen this many many times at auction sales and on E-Bay. BTW its not 'free enterprise' its an auction where 2 or more people want the same item, and one of them decides when he wishes to back out.

Now then if you would have placed a starting bid at $40 dollars or a reserve at $50 bucks then it is a different story.

IMO of course.

Check out Jims thread in "Our Town" titled 'Hired by a Gun Show Dealer'.

I should add in my 50 plus years in the retail business I never found operating a retail sales operation by purchasing my product from another retailer a smart move.

Maybe GM should start purchasing their new models from Ford Dealerships. That should work out well.

[starmac]

If the starting bid was at 40, and the reserve set at 50 or 200 for that matter, wouldn't the buyer or prospective buyers still be setting the price if they bought it, or am I missing something here.

[jcwit]

If the starting bid was at 40, and the reserve set at 50 or 200 for that matter, wouldn't the buyer or prospective buyers still be setting the price if they bought it, or am I missing something here.

I spose, but it also would be with the sellers intent to gouge. as well. IMO

The word "intent" is the magic word here.

[44Vaquero]

The market will eventually stabilize, right now it is being driven by shear emotionalism and not common sense. If more people had the sense to wait it out the market would stabilize that much faster. It only takes a few deep pocketed reactionary individuals to over heat any market!

Remember, Benny and his $100.00 lee six cavity mold.

[dragon813gt]

If the starting bid was at 40, and the reserve set at 50 or 200 for that matter, wouldn't the buyer or prospective buyers still be setting the price if they bought it, or am I missing something here.

You aren't missing anything. And the reserve makes no difference. That's you setting the minimum price that you're willing to let an item go for. It's the same as listing an item for sale here at say $40. If it doesn't sell at that price you lower it. Same for an auction. If it doesn't hit the reserve you relist w/ a lower reserve. I personally usually start the auction at the price I'm willing to sell it for. If it goes higher, great. If I only get one bid it still sold for what I'm willing to sell it for.

No one wants to sell an item for less then they think it's worth. And anyone that does is a fool. This even goes for people that think a $30 item is worth $200. They think it's worth it so let them try to sell at that price.

[jcwit]

I spose everyone may interpret however they wish.

I feel a little higher of my fellow sportsman than to screw them over, but everyone makes their own decision.

[btroj]

I can't stand the notion we should protect people from their own ignorance, lack of knowledge on what they are buying, and not educating themselves.

If a person buys something for way more than it is worth they are a fool. I feel no need to stop a fool from spending their money.

[USMC87]

I will pay only what "I" want to pay, If I win the bid or get outbid then that was my high bid. We can buy and sell but what you or I pay is up to us, I sold some things on ebay. Some things I did ok some things I lost money but that's how it is' If you don't want to pay the price then that's your decision.

[jcwit]

I can't stand the notion we should protect people from their own ignorance, lack of knowledge on what they are buying, and not educating themselves.

If a person buys something for way more than it is worth they are a fool. I feel no need to stop a fool from spending their money.

And to elaborate, I feel no need to prey upon the fools.

[starmac]

I may be a little dense, but I don't see how anyone on ebay can screw me or anyone else over (pricewise) ever. Now if they don't send me what I bought and paid for then they have scammed or screwed me over. If they send me some junk that was described as pristine, then I have been screwed over, but I am free, white and 21 if I pay more than an item is worth, the only one at fault is me, and yep I have screwed myself over before.

[jcwit]

I may be a little dense, but I don't see how anyone on ebay can screw me or anyone else over (pricewise) ever. Now if they don't send me what I bought and paid for then they have scammed or screwed me over. If they send me some junk that was described as pristine, then I have been screwed over, but I am free, white and 21 if I pay more than an item is worth, the only one at fault is me, and yep I have screwed myself over before.

I'm of the opinion neither you 'starmac' nor I, nor most here on this forum are the fools mentioned in this thread. Most of us here seem to be Blessed with more than average intelligence, actually quite a bit more!

[1bluehorse]

The only issue I have with "sellers", and I've seen a bit of it lately is misrepresenting the item for sale...ie: A Lee Challenger press for sale and advertised as a Lee Classic Press, a Lee single stage Challenger press advertised as a "turret style" press, I have no idea if these were done out of ignorance of what they were actually selling or just plain trying to fool/cheat a buyer that may not know the difference (new person to reloading) I sent a message to both and mentioned the discrepancys..both mailed me back with apologys and said they would "fix" the description, neither did...crooks...

[starmac]

Well I don't know, I once bought tie rod ends for my four wheeler off of ebay, when they come in I had all rights and no lefts, soooo I decide instead of waiting I would go pay the stealerships price, which turned out to be several dollars plus shipping. lol Were talking maybe 5 bucks, plus shipping, but I felt like an idiot, fool or what have you. lol

[btroj]

And to elaborate, I feel no need to prey upon the fools.

Ok, how do you do that on EBay? Set a max price? If two, or more, people are bidding against each other on an item then THEY are setting the price, not the seller. At this point the bidders are gouging themselves. Not sure how the seller is a bad guy here.

I personally think a business with reasonable prices will always do better than one with high prices. Treat a customer well and they will always reward you with their business. If a business wants to charge outrageous prices and prey on idiots then do be it, I just refuse to be the idiot.

I am shocked at the prices people pay on EBay. Amazed. Actually, more disappointed in how dumb some people are. The fact they buy with doing any research amazes me. Bidding on items when you have no idea of what they are actually worth?

[Bjornb]

When perusing eBay I am mostly well aware of what's actually available from regular online suppliers. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the insane bidding wars for Lyman moulds. These are generally available from Lyman for $84.95 plus shipping (2-week shipping delay), so the people who pay upward of $100 for SC moulds just aren't doing their homework. TRUE obsolete moulds are of course an exception. I don't have any sympathy for uninformed buyers; they have the same access to the internet as I do.

[jcwit]

Ok, how do you do that on EBay? Set a max price? If two, or more, people are bidding against each other on an item then THEY are setting the price, not the seller. At this point the bidders are gouging themselves. Not sure how the seller is a bad guy here.

By setting a very high starting bid of course. Doubtful you would fall for it and positive I would either for that matter, but the foolish folks will, and in my mind it is nothing more than taking advantage of your fellow sportsman, no matter what their intelligence level is.

[garym1a2]

Is it overpaying for a $100 mold for 45 acp or 223 bator if the bullets are seeing for $100/500?.
If I needed 45 acp and no mold I could pay $100 and cast them in a little over an hour. Or I could buy 500 of them online for about $100. With the mold I could get many thousands out of them.

When these molds are avaliable they are only worth $40, when out of stock and bullets out of stock they could be worth much more.

The market will eventually stabilize, right now it is being driven by shear emotionalism and not common sense. If more people had the sense to wait it out the market would stabilize that much faster. It only takes a few deep pocketed reactionary individuals to over heat any market!

Remember, Benny and his $100.00 lee six cavity mold.

[jcwit]

I personally think a business with reasonable prices will always do better than one with high prices. Treat a customer well and they will always reward you with their business.


Absolutly, no argument here.

[sparkz]

I have found some great deals on E-bay but it pays to know value of what your looking for and add all costs and then comes the used vs New values
but if you watch you can and will find a good deal and not wait tho it can take some time sometimes to find that deal,,
lots of Brick and Morter stores sell too so same thing price wise,,

I NOW live in a remote part of Kentucky and if you add my time multiplied by Fuel into the mix sometimes what might look a high price is in fact right on the mark'
But I have found some great prices, I Have / am building this House here and in Kentucky NOTHING can be found for a brick house with concrete basement!
hahah, Had to go to Ohio for Roof Vent, Illinois for Glass Block, Indiana for Copper Flashing, and Texas for Foiled Ty-vac, to name a few over the years,

and word of advice "Pay-Pal Sux" NEVER EVER USE YOUR bank debit card for E-Bay!! if you ever had a prob they can seze your account forever or until such time they (PayPal) feel happy they screwed you just right or e-nuf,, haha,, Get a small CC and use that so even if it where to be stolen its limited your temp. losses, and a CC have more rights and features then a Bank card, and not have to tie-up your checking account,,
JMO
and I have 2 accounts buyer and seller for over 10 years,

Just watch for a deal it will come
but know the value of what your wanting to buy / sell


Patrick

[jcwit]

I am shocked at the prices people pay on EBay. Amazed. Actually, more disappointed in how dumb some people are. The fact they buy with doing any research amazes me. Bidding on items when you have no idea of what they are actually worth?

Many, many extremely good buy are still on the Bay. Just have to search them out.

How bout a Citizen Chronograph, like new for $40.00, sells at the discount on line jewelers for close to $200. Or a New Bulova Marine star Chronograph for $60 bucks selling at the discount jewelers for $300. Both these came with shipping encl, and were sold from here in the U.S. These are just 2 examples that I've recently purchased, I know they aren't related to reloading or firearms, but they are good examples.

[btroj]

Good deals can be found on EBay, it is up to the buyer to know what it is worth and pay that amount.

eBay is a great place for people to fleece themselves.

[jmorris]

Yep, I have picked up gear motors off eBay that cost 10% of what they bring at Granger.

That is waiting around for a good deal though, being the 28th bidder in a "panic" auction is not a way to get a good deal.

[wallenba]

Ya gotta wonder how many newbies there are, who may not be aware of places like Grafs, Midway and others, who go directly to Ebay because thats what they know. And possibly some others who have figured that out. Those scammers might be placing items on Ebay as soon as the get them from Midway etc.. Possible?

[Love Life]

Oh for love of cheesecake.

Idiots get burned. If they don't want to get burned then they shouldn't be idiots.

I find it funny that if somebody lists a high start price, or if their auction ends well above retail price, people are labeled as scammers, gougers, and pretty much the anti-Christ.

Yet, within the same thread, people are talking about their great deals, and feel no remorse for getting something from somebody for well below the value of the item. It is ok when your are getting a super deal, and the person selling is probably sweating bullets for having to give up an item for well below retail or what they may have paid for it.

2 sides of the coin, but people only cry when they can't get their piece of the pie.

[max range]

Fleabay is what you make of it. I have found really good deals, and not so good ones. Its biased toward the buyer because as a seller you pay a listing fee (whether it sells or not) a commission if it does, plus a chunk for payponzi when the money changes hands. You get bit three times on a sale. Then on top of that a seller pays shipping. But that's not all. There are buyers who scam too. "I never received the item, or its not as advertised. Its got a dent or ding they didn't mention. I want my money back and I want to keep the item.
I once found a scrap yard that had USGI 1" brass stencil kits. Unused, still sealed up for $5. I bought 100's of them and sold them on fleabay for $25 to $60. It was at a time I was between jobs, pushing 55 yrs old with little opportunities on the horizon. I also found a GMC dealership parts dept that could order a clutch boot for an early jeep that no one else had. I spent 100's of hours researching and found they fit perfectly. I sold over 100 of those. I was paying $7 and selling them for $40 to $80.
Those two gigs kept food on my table and the wolf away from the door and my savings intact. Did I gouge? Yep. Did I hold a gun to anyone's head? Nope.
What I wanted to point out is some of the sellers who appear to make a huge profit may actually need the money for basic necessities. With so many unemployed today I can see how lots of people are turning to ebay to get out of debt or put food on the table. I don't believe all of the sellers are fat cats with lots of money and are selling stuff because they are bored.
The bottom line is (If I may quote from my old friend Bob Chow) "It's only money". (And its not even your money)

[dragon813gt]

Yet, within the same thread, people are talking about their great deals, and feel no remorse for getting something from somebody for well below the value of the item. It is ok when your are getting a super deal, and the person selling is probably sweating bullets for having to give up an item for well below retail or what they may have paid for it.

2 sides of the coin, but people only cry when they can't get their piece of the pie.

I said this in this thread as well as a few others in recent months. This is why you should never start an auction at a value less then you're willing to part w/ the item for. Starting at more than a penny does make you a gouger or a scammer. It makes you someone that knows what price they're willing to part w/ an item for.

A fool and his money are soon parted. This should be eBay's motto.

[jcwit]

Oh for love of cheesecake.

Idiots get burned. If they don't want to get burned then they shouldn't be idiots.

I find it funny that if somebody lists a high start price, or if their auction ends well above retail price, people are labeled as scammers, gougers, and pretty much the anti-Christ.

Yet, within the same thread, people are talking about their great deals, and feel no remorse for getting something from somebody for well below the value of the item. It is ok when your are getting a super deal, and the person selling is probably sweating bullets for having to give up an item for well below retail or what they may have paid for it.

2 sides of the coin, but people only cry when they can't get their piece of the pie.

So I should feel remorse for the Tag Heuer Chronograph that was like new complete with box and papers I got from the local Pawn shop for $350, even after I double checked with the manager to be sure the price was correct and not miss marked to low. It did have a minor problem tho that the Tag Heuer licensed dealer took care of for an additional $8.00, he replaced the battery.

The watch was in fact in 95% condition and complete with box and papers.

Once again it's all in the way one wishes to interpret others business practices, or lack thereof.

BTW the dealer appraised the watch at $2,500 for insurance purposes.

[Love Life]

You should feel very bad. You knew the item was worth more, yet you did not inform the seller and pay the full value.

Evil, scammer, terrible...

In reality I don't care how you felt. It can be looked at from both sides. Some would call you a scammer for walking out with that sweet deal. I, personally, would give you a high five.

What I am pointing out is everybody sits high and mighty when they have to pay full retail or beyond for something, but they have no problems giving their friends a fist bump when they get a score at well below the actual value of an item.

Everybody loves the free market when the pendulum swings in their favor, but cry foul when it does not.

So who is the bad guy? The one who chuckles over getting a super deal, and then posts here to recieve virtual high fives? Or would it be the guy who listed an item for a stupendous price and some doofus, who has to remind himself to breath, actually bought it?

It's all good to me and I see nobody being a scammer or gouger. A douchebag, yes. A scammer or gouger? No. In times like these a thesaurus can be a big help.

[jcwit]

You should feel very bad. You knew the item was worth more, yet you did not inform the seller and pay the full value.

Evil, scammer, terrible...

In reality I don't care how you felt. It can be looked at from both sides. Some would call you a scammer for walking out with that sweet deal. I, personally, would give you a high five.

What I am pointing out is everybody sits high and mighty when they have to pay full retail or beyond for something, but they have no problems giving their friends a fist bump when they get a score at well below the actual value of an item.

Everybody loves the free market when the pendulum swings in their favor, but cry foul when it does not.

So who is the bad guy? The one who chuckles over getting a super deal, and then posts here to recieve virtual high fives? Or would it be the guy who listed an item for a stupendous price and some doofus, who has to remind himself to breath, actually bought it?

It's all good to me and I see nobody being a scammer or gouger. A douchebag, yes. A scammer or gouger? No. In times like these a thesaurus can be a big help.

Reread my post. States I double checked with the manager to be sure there was not an error. Heck, I even stoped in yesterday to be proof positive there was no misunderstanding, not much more I could do, and I'm sure happy with the deal I got and the shop seems happy to have sold it.

[starmac]

Most of the time if I come across a good deal, I will jump on it, but there are exceptions to everything. A couple of years ago I stopped at a garage sale, there were two older ladies selling off the belongings of a couple that had died off. The guy ran a shop for some 40 years. I ask them how much for a set of nice welding leads, and the lady told me 5 bucks. I told her that I couldn't do that as much as I would like too, but I would give 50 bucks and be happy. This was the tail end of a sale that had been going on for a month, they had already sold his service truck, winch truck, welders, sawmill, and most everything else. The ladys told me they knew absolutely nothing as far as what his tools had been worth, and wished I had come along earlier to have helped them price stuff.

[Love Life]

Reread my post. States I double checked with the manager to be sure there was not an error. Heck, I even stoped in yesterday to be proof positive there was no misunderstanding, not much more I could do, and I'm sure happy with the deal I got and the shop seems happy to have sold it.

I don't need to reread your post. I am speaking in generalities here. Kind of a bummer when the shoe is on the other foot, and people look at the guys getting good deals as 'Sharks' huh?

It goes both ways, and when people come to realize that, then all these "OH MY GOD!!!! YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT SOME EVIL/ SCAMMER/GOUGER/MEANIE SOLD SOMETHING FOR. RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!" threads can stop.

Myself, and others have tried to explain a free market so many times it is bordering on preposterous. People fail to grasp it because they have been raised in a world of socialism.

I hope, I fervently hope, that by presenting both sides of the coin I have caused a few light bulbs to go off.

You are scammer guy for buying low, and people are scammer guy for charging what they believe an item is worth. The world continues to go round and round...

[roberto mervicini]

I use e-bay occasionally, if the price suit me and if the ship/handling charges reasonable, no one force me to buy, so I do not get upset if the price is exorbitant I pass. On the other hand if I really want something and that is the only way I am able to get it, then I don't make a fuss and do my best to buy it.

[jmorris]

A fool and his money are soon parted. This should be eBay's motto.

No, they are a Liberal outfit, it would be closer to.

"It's sad that a fool and his money are soon parted but at least we get 10%."

[otter5555]

i hate gougers, but the last time i looked no one made me bid on an ebay item

[jcwit]

You are scammer guy for buying low, and people are scammer guy for charging what they believe an item is worth. The world continues to go round and round...

So I'm a scammer guy for questioning whether the price was correct at the time of sale, then going back 3 days later and rechecking with the manager to be sure the price I was quoted and paid was correct. Unbelievable!

Your logic fails to impress me, nor is it comprehensible.

This pawn broker is far from a small mom & pop operation. They have locations from Florida to No. Indiana. I suppose I'm also a scammer for buying a like new Winchester 94 30/30 from them last fall for $175.00 out the door also.

Question? Would you have done the same?

[Love Life]

Aha!!!! Now you see!!

The logic of the people crying foul on the guys selling for high prices fails to impress me and it is not comprehensible. I would even go so far as to say it is illogical.

Much as me calling you a scamming shark for buying low would be illogical.

One question to you though. Did you inform the seller that his item was actually worth $2,500.00 before you paid for it?

Point proved.

Now to your question of me. Heck yeah you got a deal, and if you reference my previous post (which you actually quoted to reply to) I would give you a high five for the deal you scored. Doesn't matter if the guy knew the value, and listed low, or if the guy was an idiot and listed low. You got a heck of a deal, and good deals deserve high fives.

However; were I not such a big fan of the free market, scoring deals, and making money, and if I used EMOTION to deal with every situation in life, then I would call you a lowlife, scum sucking shark.

Much like people call other people who sell for high prices low life, scum sucking sharks.

I made a statement concerning buying low, and not feeling bad. You made it personal. Your problem really, and not mine. I did not come here to insult you, nor have I. I just pointed out the other side of the coin at buying low.

Thank you for playing along though.

[jcwit]

One question to you though. Did you inform the seller that his item was actually worth $2,500.00 before you paid for it?

Point proved.

Now to your question of me. Heck yeah you got a deal, and if you reference my previous post (which you actually quoted to reply to) I would give you a high five for the deal you scored. Doesn't matter if the guy knew the value, and listed low, or if the guy was an idiot and listed low. You got a heck of a deal, and good deals deserve high fives.



No point proven at all, watch was not appraised till after the purchase at the time the T/H dealer replaced the battery.

Yesterday "Monday" the subject of pricing was brought up when I returned to the shop, and the manager did inform me the cost of the particular model I purchased if new would have been in the neighborhood of $3000.00 which was correct per the dealer, mine was decreased in value by $500.00 because of having been used.

I agree that I got a heck of a deal, and it is one reason I deal with this merchant. They've also given me extremely good deals on diamond jewelry for my wife, and misc. tools that I never would have spent the money for otherwise.

As far as outlandish pricing goes, Sam did not build his empire by overcharging, that is a fact.

[Love Life]

Who gives a flying rat's buttcheeks about Sam? He is not part of this conversation. Screw Sam.

What this conversation is about is a large portion of our society not understanding how a free market works. They are ready to grab pitch forks and lynch people for asking high prices on objects, but they wouldn't mention a daggone thing if somebody was priced way low. Whether on purpose or because they are dumb.

Is one more evil than the other? Are neither of them evil? Are they both the most nefarious of characters? The low buyer, and the high seller?

The most important thing I have gotten from this thread is: Don't be an idiot and life is much easier for you.

[FLHTC]

I was looking at a 1967, 396 4 speed Camaro SS and it was completely factory, garage kept and the VIN matched the color, motor and transmission. The gentleman wanted $33,000 for it and i thought of all the internet winners not wanting to pay extra for a box of ammo. Now here is a car that sold for a tad over three grand new and its now 46 years old and as much as a new Camaro. The seller must have been a scammer!

[jcwit]

Who gives a flying rat's buttcheeks about Sam? He is not part of this conversation. Screw Sam.

What this conversation is about is a large portion of our society not understanding how a free market works. They are ready to grab pitch forks and lynch people for asking high prices on objects, but they wouldn't mention a daggone thing if somebody was priced way low. Whether on purpose or because they are dumb.

Is one more evil than the other? Are neither of them evil? Are they both the most nefarious of characters? The low buyer, and the high seller?

The most important thing I have gotten from this thread is: Don't be an idiot and life is much easier for you.

WOW! Are we ever getting testy this afternoon.

Who cares about Sam? Well being as he started and grew the largest retail operation in the world it stands to reason he understood the operation of the free market you bring up and the fact of not screwing over his customers or gouging either. Thats why SAM is part of this conversation, such as it is.

[jcwit]

I was looking at a 1967, 396 4 speed Camaro SS and it was completely factory, garage kept and the VIN matched the color, motor and transmission. The gentleman wanted $33,000 for it and i thought of all the internet winners not wanting to pay extra for a box of ammo. Now here is a car that sold for a tad over three grand new and its now 46 years old and as much as a new Camaro. The seller must have been a scammer!

No! This is now a collector's item.

Nowhere near the same as buying ammo at a retail outlet for $20/$30 bucks a brick the putting it up for sale at $90/$100 bucks. Totally different. The ammo has no collectors value, the car does.

[starmac]

Will the ammo be worth more if we insist they make it in china??? lol

[jcwit]

Will the ammo be worth more if we insist they make it in china??? lol

Not Likely, hehe.

[Love Life]

WOW! Are we ever getting testy this afternoon.

Who cares about Sam? Well being as he started and grew the largest retail operation in the world it stands to reason he understood the operation of the free market you bring up and the fact of not screwing over his customers or gouging either. Thats why SAM is part of this conversation, such as it is.

Sam is part the conversation for you.

Not for me. How he did business was his business. How others do business is their business.

That is the point. How people do business is not the business of anybody else. Buy it or leave it. Don't label them as scammers, gougers, meanie faces, or any other buzzword for socialism that is getting thrown around this forum like it's cool.


I bet he (Sam) sold his products for more than he paid for them...

Gouging does not occur with wants. Gouging only occurs with necessities.

Let's turn the tables. Anybody who buys an item for less than the market or retail value is also a scammer. There. Fairness as put forth by the socialists.

[Remyvtr15]

ok...I gotta chime in here....
I've used EBAY since 2006 as VAIRSTANG... I have about 100 feedbacks..I'm not a business...I sell stuff I want to get rid of..like a yard sale..

But then there are things like autographed bats or other memorabilia(or car parts, or reloading equipt) that I don't want to lose my shirt on...so I set a price close to what I want out of it.

Why should I set my price low? If I set the price high, u can ignore it and go about yer biz...
It's mine. I'll set the price where I want to set it. Its up to the bidders to determine the worth.
Then it is up to me to make sure the buyer gets what he expects and to ship it protected and in a timely manner.

[jcwit]

Sam is part the conversation for you.

Not for me. How he did business was his business. How others do business is their business.

That is the point. How people do business is not the business of anybody else. Buy it or leave it. Don't label them as scammers, gougers, meanie faces, or any other buzzword for socialism that is getting thrown around this forum like it's cool.


I bet he (Sam) sold his products for more than he paid for them...

Gouging does not occur with wants. Gouging only occurs with necessities.

Let's turn the tables. Anybody who buys an item for less than the market or retail value is also a scammer. There. Fairness as put forth by the socialists.



OK, I give up, I'm a 69 year old disabled Vet. who did not run off to Canada, but proudly served my Country, has only ever missed 1 election and has never voted democratic. I've spent most of my working life in the retail business, many of them with my own successful business, and at no time did I overcharge or take advantage of any of my customers. There were even times I gave merchandise away for nothing so as to help someone or make someone happy.

I'm the type of guy that found a ladies wallet with a few thousand dollars in it and saw that it got returned to the rightful owner.

YUP! I'm the face of socialism.

Now, think as you wish and believe as you wish, but the above is the truth!

BTW, It was the socialists who were spitting at me and calling me a baby killer and other names while I made my way to the office in The Pentagon.

[Love Life]

I knew it (insert smilie face of choice here)!!!

Good for you on your business practices.

It is nobody's business if you charged fair prices, or if gouged the living daylights out of people. It is your business. Not my business, not Mr. Crybaby Pants' business, not Harry Reid's business, but YOUR business.

If you buy a sweet watch well below retail, then that is your business. Not my business, not Mr. Crybaby Pants' business, and not Harry Reid's business. It is YOUR business.

That is what I am getting at. It is people's choice (Freedom if you will) to sell fair, gouge the daylights out of people, sell below retail to help people out, sell below retail because they have to remind themselves to breath, etc.

To come and caller people scammers is a right, but it is the wrong word. Gouger is the wrong word.

The right thinig to say is "That d-bag is charging retarded prices" or something like that.

Once people can separate the two, things will be much better. If people would quit showing socialist tendencies, then they would not be labeled as such.

Good chat JCwit. We haven't been at each other for over a year.

[starmac]

Just curious Jcwit, would you say you ran your business the way you saw fit, and not the way someone else might have wanted you to??

[jcwit]

Just curious Jcwit, would you say you ran your business the way you saw fit, and not the way someone else might have wanted you to??

I ran my business so as to make a decent living for my family, and that was far from an extravagant living, and to be successful while I ran it, without taking advantage of my customers, and having return customers.

Don't know if that answers your question or not but that was how I did it. Never made it in a huge, but we lived a comfortable life as we still do.

My secret of success? Happiness. One can have all the money in the world and be miserable. One can be dirt poor and be happy.
I'm far from dirt poor, but then again I am happy.

[jcwit]

I knew it (insert smilie face of choice here)!!!

Good for you on your business practices.

It is nobody's business if you charged fair prices, or if gouged the living daylights out of people. It is your business. Not my business, not Mr. Crybaby Pants' business, not Harry Reid's business, but YOUR business.

If you buy a sweet watch well below retail, then that is your business. Not my business, not Mr. Crybaby Pants' business, and not Harry Reid's business. It is YOUR business.

That is what I am getting at. It is people's choice (Freedom if you will) to sell fair, gouge the daylights out of people, sell below retail to help people out, sell below retail because they have to remind themselves to breath, etc.

To come and caller people scammers is a right, but it is the wrong word. Gouger is the wrong word.

The right thinig to say is "That d-bag is charging retarded prices" or something like that.

Once people can separate the two, things will be much better. If people would quit showing socialist tendencies, then they would not be labeled as such.

Good chat JCwit. We haven't been at each other for over a year.

Not to keep this going and going but this post brought to mind.

With this logic then the business practices of merry old England in Scrooges day were/are OK. Child sweatshops and all. Business ethics out the window. After all 'its their business', not yours, mine, or Harry Reids.

[Love Life]

Straws? Has anybody seen the straws? It appears somebody has grabbed them all...

What does setting your price have to do with business ethics here? If you set it to high, no buyers. To low, out of stock. Just right? Boom. In business for the long haul.


Keep on reaching.

[starmac]

The times I have priced anything outrageously high,(and I have) the item was NOT for sale unless some one else insisted on owning it. Who am I to say they would be a fool if they bought it anyway.

[jcwit]

Who, other than you, mentioned setting prices?

As far as running out of stock, that ment of course I was selling more, getting more product was the least of my worries as I was the producer of the products of what I was selling. Sell, sell, sell, produce, produce, produce, the cycle continued, out of stock was only a worry if it occured before lunch time. Then it was time to fill in with mass produced items.

Straws? No straws either.

[Love Life]

I did.

I was trying to find out how the seller setting their price for what they are selling tied in with child labor and sweatshops.

Please don't deflect, it is quite unbecoming.

[jcwit]

The times I have priced anything outrageously high,(and I have) the item was NOT for sale unless some one else insisted on owning it. Who am I to say they would be a fool if they bought it anyway.

I had the same happen a few times also. Usually the high priced item was for a visual draw. Then once in a while there was some idiot who tried to buy said item, I normally refused the sale.

[jcwit]

OK, I'll point it out, as best I can.




That is what I am getting at. It is people's choice (Freedom if you will) to sell fair, gouge the daylights out of people,





With this logic then the business practices of merry old England in Scrooges day were/are OK. Child sweatshops and all. Business ethics out the window. After all 'its their business', not yours, mine, or Harry Reids.

There you go.

[jcwit]

I did.

I was trying to find out how the seller setting their price for what they are selling tied in with child labor and sweatshops.

Please don't deflect, it is quite unbecoming.

At my age becoming or unbecoming is a non issue.

The face of socialism, YUP thats me!

[starmac]

Well here is two different scenarios that I have come across.
A guy wanted my pickup, which was mint, so I priced it 500 bucks less than I paid for it 5 years and 130,000 miles back. I did not have it for sale and couldn't replace it for said amount, but he was the new owner anyway.

Another time I stood a couple hours in the rain at an estate auction, not many people did and I picked up some great deals. The very last thing sold was the auctioneers personal pickup that he was standing in the back of. He had bought a new one and sold his. I got the high bid, and it was literally stealing it, when he said I have to have more money. I told him, you aren't expecting me to bid against myself are you, you are the one that is selling it at an auction. Even though there was no reserve mentioned, I didn't drive his pickup home. lol

[btroj]

That is quite a stretch.

Based upon our logic the need to treat customers in a polite manner and to overcharge means that communism is a good thing. We all should be working for the common good after all.

In capitalism a business cans et a price as they choose. The buyer can determine if the item is worth the price. It is up to the buyer to make that determination.

I don't consider it gouging in cases where the item is not required for basic daily living. It also isn't gouging if the item is available from multiple sources.

Jcwit, I get it. You ran what you felt was an ethical business. More power to you. Trying to extrapolate that to all aspects of retail sales isn't realistic. Would you state that competitors of your who were slightly higher priced were unethical? Immoral?

[Recluse]

Hmmmm. Now I'm in a quandry.

Shortly after 9/11, a certain company's stock prices plummeted because the public was afraid to fly. I rolled the dice and invested 100% of two IRAs the wife and I had been putting money into for the past ten-plus years. Pretty much our life's savings.

Heckuva gamble, but I figured, conservatively, that I could at least double my money. The stock was below $4 a share.

Fast forward two years later. I sold the stock for over $40 a share.

Now, Mr. Wit, does that make me:

A. A scammer

B. A gouger

C. A savvy investor?

The mantra of business in this country has always been to "buy low, sell high." It's how you make a profit, and without a profit, you either go bankrupt or you become a government entity.

I have a mint 1984 Nissan 300ZX that is also somewhat unique in that it was never intended for export to the mainland U.S. and as such, has a few things different about it than the standard 300ZX that came out that year--first year Datsun became Nissan and the only year that both brands were physically present on their cars.

I've been offered various sums of money for the car (which resides in the garage and gets driven on occasion) which far, far, FAR exceed what I paid for it. If I were to sell the car for one of these outrageous sums of money, does it make me a:

A. Scammer

B. Gouger

C. Savvy seller

The correct answer would be D, which is "In the dog house because it is promised to the daughter in the will, and maybe even earlier."

Fact is, I may not like speculators who buy up primers and powder and components and tools and parts with the sole purpose of doubling or tripling their money down the road, but it is legal.

Is it ethical? Who decides that? If I don't like their ethics, then I don't have to buy from them. At the same time, we've seen Cheaper Than Dirt jack up their prices well beyond what was normal retail. Ethical? I could care less if it is/was or wasn't. I chose not to shop with them, and what's more, to never shop with them again.

You forget, Mr. Wit, the power the American consumer has over such businesses, and you also forget one of P.T. Barnum's more famous business observations. But at the end of the day, this is still America and people are allowed to be fools when it comes to how and where and when they choose to spend their money.

:coffee:

[jmorris]

^well said.

[sparky45]

Wish I could wax elegantly like Recluse. But the bottom line is he's 100% correct and sees the total picture.

Well said, indeed.

[jcwit]

Hmmmm. Now I'm in a quandry.

Shortly after 9/11, a certain company's stock prices plummeted because the public was afraid to fly. I rolled the dice and invested 100% of two IRAs the wife and I had been putting money into for the past ten-plus years. Pretty much our life's savings.

Heckuva gamble, but I figured, conservatively, that I could at least double my money. The stock was below $4 a share.

Fast forward two years later. I sold the stock for over $40 a share.

Now, Mr. Wit, does that make me:

A. A scammer

B. A gouger

C. A savvy investor?

The mantra of business in this country has always been to "buy low, sell high." It's how you make a profit, and without a profit, you either go bankrupt or you become a government entity.

I have a mint 1984 Nissan 300ZX that is also somewhat unique in that it was never intended for export to the mainland U.S. and as such, has a few things different about it than the standard 300ZX that came out that year--first year Datsun became Nissan and the only year that both brands were physically present on their cars.

I've been offered various sums of money for the car (which resides in the garage and gets driven on occasion) which far, far, FAR exceed what I paid for it. If I were to sell the car for one of these outrageous sums of money, does it make me a:

A. Scammer

B. Gouger

C. Savvy seller

The correct answer would be D, which is "In the dog house because it is promised to the daughter in the will, and maybe even earlier."

Fact is, I may not like speculators who buy up primers and powder and components and tools and parts with the sole purpose of doubling or tripling their money down the road, but it is legal.

Is it ethical? Who decides that? If I don't like their ethics, then I don't have to buy from them. At the same time, we've seen Cheaper Than Dirt jack up their prices well beyond what was normal retail. Ethical? I could care less if it is/was or wasn't. I chose not to shop with them, and what's more, to never shop with them again.

You forget, Mr. Wit, the power the American consumer has over such businesses, and you also forget one of P.T. Barnum's more famous business observations. But at the end of the day, this is still America and people are allowed to be fools when it comes to how and where and when they choose to spend their money.

:coffee:

Regarding the purchase of stock and the sale of stock you were a wise investor, I have done the same with oil. paper and utility stocks, however the market dictated the price not the seller, entirely different different from Joe Dudley going into Wally World and buying up all the ammo available and then showing up at the local gun show or on Craig's list or wherever jacking up the price from the $25/$30 bucks he spent to $90/$100 dollars thereby screwing his fellow shooting buds. If they feel well conducting this form of business all I have to say is that are the ones that will have to live with themselves. If they would ever need help from me and I knew the practices they followed I'd tell them to blank off.

Regarding the car, its of no consequence as its already spoken for.


You forget, Mr. Wit, the power the American consumer has over such businesses, and you also forget one of P.T. Barnum's more famous business observations. But at the end of the day, this is still America and people are allowed to be fools when it comes to how and where and when they choose to spend their money.



Regarding this way of doing business, First I am not P.T. Barnum nor anywhere near to what he was, and granted this is still America and folks will continue to be fools, I have no need to help them in that endeavor, others may do so, as yes there are fools in the retail world helping those customers become fools. After all ts this not why used car salesman are so highly thought of in the auto sales industry, or maybe its the other way around. Thinking it over I believe its the later.

[lka]

Two words, supply/demand

[starmac]

If you don't like the price you paid, you can always just sue.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328857/Customers-sue-department-stores-mismarking-sales-duping-shoppers-thinking-theyre-getting-better-deal.html

[FLHTC]

No! This is now a collector's item.

Nowhere near the same as buying ammo at a retail outlet for $20/$30 bucks a brick the putting it up for sale at $90/$100 bucks. Totally different. The ammo has no collectors value, the car does.

A collectors item becomes one due to so many wanting it when so few are available. Ammo has certainly become collectible and there isn't a list of items in the reloading/ammunition industry which qualify as collectors items and those that don't. Reloading tools have become collectible as have many discontinued components. The lyman All American turret press is a good example. Its prices here have topped the $100 mark and nobody seems to mind that but the ebay sellers and internet ammo dealers are constantly slammed for attempting to make money. Is there a regulation among the shooting sports community that states we shouldn't be charged beyond a certain price for items? I guess the automotive, food, oil, clothing and housing industry is run by internet scammer too? Its basic economics and the wise were those who massed their supply when items were available. Why cry foul about something that was controllable?
We're liable to see a change that hasn't occurred since the early 90s when the first ammo shortage happened. Everything i shoot and reload with has become a collectors item in my mind, that's why i buy as much as i can whenever i see it.

[jcwit]

Is there a regulation among the shooting sports community that states we shouldn't be charged beyond a certain price for items? I guess the automotive, food, oil, clothing and housing industry is run by internet scammer too? Its basic economics and the wise were those who massed their supply when items were available. Why cry foul about something that was controllable?


Not all of the 10 Commandments have societies laws or regulations either, does not mean they are not very good rules to follow, its called ethics, and concern for your fellow man, or sportsman, should we use the same logic regarding supporting our troops or the Red Cross, after all you can get paid for giving blood and not donate it.







The face of socialism, YUP thats me!

[chadfarmer]

if over priced than don't buy

[jcwit]

if over priced than don't buy

YUP! Somehow that seems to work.

[jmorris]

I don't know if it's been said in the 100 replies but if you were at an event and wanted a beer bad enough to pay $6 for 12oz of cold joy, did you get gouged or a good deal?

Sometimes you just have to pay to play...

[jcwit]

I don't know if it's been said in the 100 replies but if you were at an event and wanted a beer bad enough to pay $6 for 12oz of cold joy, did you get gouged or a good deal?

Sometimes you just have to pay to play...

I seen that at NASCAR races, never got gouged tho, I do not need cold joy, at any price.

I did see enough drunks under the stands tho.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I seen that at NASCAR races, never got gouged tho, I do not need cold joy, at any price.

I did see enough drunks under the stands tho.

And he still misses the POINT!

[Love Life]

Off topic alert!!

jcwit- What did you make and sell? I have no hidden agenda behind the question, I am just curious.

[jmorris]

And he still misses the POINT!

Had to try.

Maybe we just need to know what his interests are. Every one has someone in their house that pays too much for something.

If you collect anything with the idea of resale, you count on making money.

Doesn't matter what it is, classic cars, old tin off of barns, signs, tires, horse shoes. If there is a market for what you have, you will sell it to the person that wants it the most.

30 years ago (or less) if you lived in the city you drank water out of the tap. I'll bet money there are few here that haven't had a bottle of water...that costs more than refined fuel by the gallon.

[jmorris]

Shoot, I know any Internet connection costs more than smoke signals and meets few "needs".

[jcwit]

What did I make? Hardwood crafts, furniture, awards, etc. Everything from bird houses to the wood part part of awards presented for various winners at the Indy 500. Also various other commercial products from packaged popcorn to souvenir items.

I collect nothing with the idea of reselling, let the estate executor take care of that when I die.

What is so hard of a fellow having a business and making a profit and not gouging his customers that is so hard to understand. This country at one time operated with the idea of helping each other get along, look back to WWI and WWII for examples. Now everyone seem to live with the attitude as to how much they can get, either from the government or how much they can screw each other. Its no wonder our society is in the shape it is, and most have brought it upon themselves.

And yet you will complain about an $8.00 aspirin given at the hospital or a $10.00 band aid.

Just because there is a shortage of a product, whatever that product may be is no reason to extort folks for a huge profit %. Heck there's another thread referring to a supplier trying to extort money thru shipping charges, and customers claiming they'll NEVER buy from them again. I'll bet is said supplier really lowered shipping charges or even offered free shipping and jacked his prices to cover shipping, folks would return to him and claim he was the greatest supplier on the face of the earth.

And you'all claim I don't "get it'. Oh but I do, and I see whence forth your mindsets are at. Lord have have mercy on us. What a selfish world we have created.

[jcwit]

Shoot, I know any Internet connection costs more than smoke signals and meets few "needs".

Mine does, most purchases since I have gotten a computer have been thru an internet connection. Last 3 autos have been bought thru the internet, one was thru the dealer for $3,000 cash and no it was not a salvage car, other was thru a private party for $800, guy wanted it gone, wife had bought a new car.

What kind of car does one get for $800 bucks? A 8 year old Ford Escort with NO rust, 70,000 well taken care of miles on it from a non smoker. I've owned it for over 6 years now, still no rust, spray oil does wonders to solve that. I did have to replace the exhause system, purchased from the internet from the manafold on back, less than $200 bucks with shipping. Put it on myself, took to days but a garage estimate wanted over $200 to do the job. I'm still able to work 16 hours for $200 bucks. Other than its a good car and still gets 36/38 MPG.

Yes my connection pays for itself on a weekly basis, can't say the same for anyone else tho.

[jmorris]

Just because there is a shortage of a product, whatever that product may be is no reason to extort folks for a huge profit %.

I will say again that I don't feel that I extorted the guy that payed $1841 for my 650 on eBay. If he didn't bid that I wouldn't have felt that I extorted the guy that had the next lowest bid, that was already more than enough to pay for a new 1050.

[Recluse]

Extortion is when someone has a gun to your head, figuratively, and it normally occurs when one has not planned appropriately or accordingly.

I've paid some outrageous prices for avgas, but never have been extorted to do so. Why? Because while FAA FARs call for a half-hour reserve for VFR and one hour for IFR, I normally double those reserves. Thus, if/when I land at an unfamiliar field and if they have prices that are not to my liking, I can simply call around, find a better price, crank up and fly there to top off the tanks.

Reloading components and equipment is no different. As gun-owners, we're acutely aware of what political climates do to supply and demand, yet we still fail to plan. I keep going back to the Ant & the Grasshopper fable by Aesop. Too many in our midst choose to play and gorge themselves even when all the warning signs of a long, hard, cold winter (ala Obama administration) are right in front of our faces.

Then when the winter hits and the grasshoppers are starving, they get whizzed off because the ants who worked and planned are exercising the number one universal rule of economics: Supply versus demand sets the price that the market will bear.

Maybe Mr. Wit didn't want to make as much of a profit as he could have in his business. If so, that was his CHOICE to do so. The four P's of marketing include Pricing (along with product, placement, promotion) and if you incorrectly price your product or service, your business will suffer because of it.

At the same time, economies are cyclical and prices are set by both rational, but mainly irrational desires and fears and expectations.

The price of silver and gold is way up--far more than it was thirty years ago. So seeing as how I just sold some silver coins for far more than the face/currency value of the coins, did I gouge the buyer because he offered me more than a dollar for the silver dollars I sold him?

The market sets the price for silver. I sold some coins and made a profit. The buyer will resell the coins, and he will make a profit. The price of silver seems kind of outrageous at the moment, but it is also an opportunity that historically has not been day to day for years on end at these kinds of prices.

And so goes gun components. Along with an inflationary index, political climates dictate not only supply and demand, but cost-to-produce and even cost-to-purchase (ala HAZMAT fees, taxation, etc).

So you have speculators who have done their homework and are investing in components the same way some folks invested in old coins and metals. Now they're simply attempting to recoup their investments and make sizable profits from it.

It's called capitalism and its perfectly legal and you can choose to not buy from entities you feel are unduly profiting from the political climate.

Again, I keep going back to Aesop's fable--those of us who planned accordingly are largely untouched by political climates. Those who didn't plan appropriately seem to be blaming everyone and everything but themselves.

:coffee:

[jcwit]

It's called capitalism and its perfectly legal and you can choose to not buy from entities you feel are unduly profiting from the political climate.

Again, I keep going back to Aesop's fable--those of us who planned accordingly are largely untouched by political climates. Those who didn't plan appropriately seem to be blaming everyone and everything but themselves.

:coffee:

To the first statement, my choice has been to not buy from the entities. Being perfectly legal does not make something ethical. One only need to look at our current political climate to comprehend this.

To the second statement, I have planed appropriately and have enough supplies to last me more than likely the rest of my days. I may need to purchase a few bricks of the higher quality rimfire ammo yet, but that isn't in short supply at this time. At least Eley black box is available. But just because I've prepared myself doesn't mean I need to condone the status as is.

Is this not what we do when we call or write our representives?

[Vtnam68]

Recluse, you hit it on the head!

[searcher4851]

I thought this was a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be fun. Maybe I'm a little slow, but being as this IS a hobby, if someone wants more than I'm willing to pay for something, to feed my hobby, I reckon I'll not be buying it. I'm not gonna complain or whine about it, I'll just look elsewhere or wait until the shortages end. The fella will probably find someone else willing to pay the price he's asking and the both of them will be happy. I think they call that free enterprise. It doesn't make me any better or them any worse. I just didn't want it as badly. No harm, no foul.

Holy ****! Am I actually mellowing in my old age?

[starmac]

I was going to buy a brick of 22 shells today, when the young lady rang them up for 29.92, I told her she had better sell them to somebody that thinks they have to have them.

This was at wallmart, one of those stores that doesn't raise their prices when they can take advantage of it. lol

A buddy stopped in this evening and they told him they had sold out of a big shipment in two hours, this with a one brick limit.

[6bg6ga]

Well six pages now on the thread I started almost a month ago. I have managed to get a number of responses. As most have stated I simply do not have to buy and they are correct and I simply will not purchase something at an inflated price that was brought upon because of a temporary shortage.
A quick check with Dillon shows that they are back ordered but the reality of it is that most items will ship in 2 weeks or less.

I still cannot help having the fur stand up on my back when I see for example a set of Dillon 9mm reloading dies listed at $99.95 when you can purchase the same dies from Dillon direct for $63.95 plus shipping. Now, I'm not against someone making a little profit but to gouge someone unnecessarily just to make a fat profit bothers me. Sure ebay makes money off a listing and in this case its probably 10% so $63.95 plus 10% is roughly $70.35 and figuring Paypal fees in there is probably 5-6% so another roughly $5 or so. I'm not against say $75.00 -$80.00 for the Dillon Die example. The extra roughly $20.00 being inflated on the price just so you can get the die set in 7 days instead of 14 days irritates me.

When you look at the original price of the items that I mentioned in post number one and the fact the auction items are indeed used and in the case of the powder measure its a 1st generation unit with return spring instead of the fail safe linkage that Dillon sells and has sold for years.

And yes it still irritates me and yes I still call them scammers dispite being corrected here by some. Call them what you like but I have zero respect for those trying to sell used products at way above the current new price.

[starmac]

Does convenience stores hold the same prices as wallmart? What would be the difference?

[jcwit]

Does convenience stores hold the same prices as wallmart? What would be the difference?

No, they don't.

But I don't see a 3 to 4 hundred % markup either.

However it may be different up north?

[44Vaquero]

If you think E-Bay is off the hook, then I suggest you do not go near this site: http://www.armslist.com/ It's beyond crazy!