What is YOUR load for 38spl in a snubby?

[DanWalker]

I bought the wife a charter arms undercover 38spl snubby a number of years ago.
Primarily because she liked the way it looked and how it felt in her hand. Teenage daughter is now making noises like she wants one too.
Just curious as to what you guys were loading in yours.
The primary load for this one is a 150gr swc over 3 grains of bullseye.
I also feed it 148gr hbwc's over the same dose of BE.
The swc's have done great work from this little revolver, to include killing two hogs at VERY close range, one of which was intent on rearranging my physical features.

[Ghugly]

Sounds like your BE loads are working well for you. I do have a question tho. Were you hunting wild hogs with a snubby 38? If so, how the hell do you walk with cojones that big? :holysheep

[Dale53]

DanWalker;
The 150/3.0 grs of Bullseye is a pretty light load (the bullet should hardly be getting out of its own way:-D.

Lyman shows 4.2 grs at 16,000 psi (good for any modern snubby in good shape). I have a couple of snubby Smith's (one a Stainless Bodyguard and one an Airweight Chief's Special). The Bodyguard has Packmayr Compac grips and handles this without much fuss. The Airweight is a bit brisk, but manageable.

Your wadcutter load should be much more effective as most of the bullet is in the case, reducing case capacity and increasing pressures leading to more velocity. Speer #12 shows 3.1 of Bullseye and suggest you do NOT exceed with the Hollow Base Wadcutter.

However, for a good defense load from two and four legged critters, Speer #12 allows 4.5 grs of Bullseye with the SOLID BASE WADCUTTER within normal pressure limits. That should be BRISK! ( I would want to confirm this load from a second source just to be safe).

I tend to shoot a bit below max (standard pressures for the .38 Special) for practice and then load "full loads" for business use when using the light snub nose revolvers. I then practice just enough with the full loads so I will not be "surprised" when they are needed for real. There is no need to beat up either yourself nor your revolver by using full loads all of the time. I do NOT normally shoot +P loads in my .38 Special snub noses. There seems to be little gain and with some of the old "non +P revolvers" owners have reported stretched frames with as little as 100 rounds of +P's shot in the old S&W Chiefs.

NOTE: The reason for Speer showing lighter loads for the Hollow Base Wadcutters, they tend to deform the base with heavy pressure EVEN TO THE POINT OF BLOWING THE NOSE OFF THE BASE AND LEAVING THE BASE IN THE REVOLVER WAITING TO BULGE THE BARREL ON THE NEXT SHOT.
I was standing next to a friend on the firing line at the range when this very thing occurred. He was using a .38 AMU auto. For some reason (the angels were looking out for him) I looked at his pistol just after he fired. I saw the base of the bullet protruding from the end of the barrel. I YELLED! and stopped him before the next shot. The nose printed on the target and he had absolutely no clue as to what was about to happen. I had another friend who lost TWO barrels in a .38 Super (in a couple of months time) who was shooting light target loads in his pistol for target use only. After the incident that I described we were able to figure out what had happened.

By the way, the bullets in question were NOT Speers nor Hornadys and the design of the bullet was changed shortly after we reported the incident to hopefully minimize the chances of that happening again.

YMMV
Dale53

[DanWalker]

Sounds like your BE loads are working well for you. I do have a question tho. Were you hunting wild hogs with a snubby 38? If so, how the hell do you walk with cojones that big? :holysheep
Actually I was hunting hogs with a knife(professionally, inside city limits), and was trying to untangle my dog from wild cucumber vines, when the tree limb I was shimmied out on snapped off and dumped me in front of the hog. Piggy took a look at my sorry condition and headed right for me. I went to work with the 38 at a range of about 6 feet.
I'm still here, and piggy became eagle chow.
You really don't know how quick your draw is until you HAVE to get a gun out in a hurry.

[Charlie Horse]

Right now I have my Dillion Square Deal set up for the Lee 140-some grain TL full wadcutter and 2.8 grains of bullseye. I shoot that out of a Taurus model 85 stainless 357 snubbie. It's the same size as an S&W chiefs special.
I plink with that set-up, and if I told you how accurate it is you wouldn't believe me.
For social purposes I would load that same gun with 125 grain 357 JHP's.

On another note, I sometimes load the same Lee wadcutter over .6 grains of Bullseye. I made a dipper out of a primer tray that WW primers come in. The load is very quiet but consistent. Just a pop like a cap gun. You don't need ear plugs and you can follow the bullet from the muzzle to the target with your eye. Its only good for about 20 feet, then it drops off fast. It's like shooting a marble from a slingshot.
The powder measure on my progressive press won't throw a .6 grain charge. Instead, when the case comes off the priming/belling stage, I pull it off the press and charge the case with my dipper. By striking the dipper level with my fingertip I get a very consistent charge. Then the case goes back on the press to have a boolit seated in place.
Its just a neat little backyard load for my snubbie. I wouldn't try it with anything but a 2" barrel because of the hazard of the bullet not exiting the muzzle.

[DanWalker]

Guys, I was wrong. I checked my journal.
I shot the hog that charged me in the throat with a 158jhp factory load, then finished it off with my KaBar when the dogs grabbed it.
I did kill another hog with the 150swc, but it aint much to brag about. My dog had a hold on it, and I walked up and gave mr piggy 2 in the chest and one in the head.
Please don't think I'm trying to portray myself as some hairy chested machoman. I killed hogs for a living for a while. I was employed as a professional hunter to help get rid of the feral hogs on Catalina island. Hunting hogs with a knife isn't really all that dangerous. If you have good dogs and are careful there isn't much to it.
The dogs grab the hog, you walk up, grab the back legs(no cowboy jokes please), and toss the hog on it's side. Put your boot on his neck so he can't spin his head to the side to bite you, and then a couple stabs to the heart and he's done.
It isn't pretty. It's pretty damned brutal and AWFUL messy, but it was a service that needed performed. We used knives and tranquilizer darts on the hogs we caught in town. I carried the 38 as a backup in case things got dicey.

[Dale53]

Dan Walker;
I was raised on a farm. We raised hogs and cattle. A domestic hog is only about two steps away from being a feral hog. I have had some "interesting" moments with domestic hogs.

I have caught fifty pound hogs with my hands (by the dozens) and wrestled them for the vet to treat. I was more afraid of the vet and him waving around that big needle) than I was the hogs, most time. However, for a "treat" get around a mother hog with little ones and have the babies give a squeal... as I said, interesting times.

I'll tell you one thing, I don't envy your job experience. That sounds like heavy work. I have never killed any with a knife, but I can readily see how you would do it. A good pack of dogs would seem to be a BIG help:mrgreen: . I have no intention of making light of your experiences as I am sure that you had your "moments". I mostly was VERY careful around hogs as they can be VERY serious at times. Understand that I am not equating domestic hogs in quite the same class as feral hogs - but they are somewhat similar in disposition at times. Both have the equipment to HURT you - the ferals are just a bit quicker to try to take you under normal circumstances.

If it's all the same to you, I think I'll kill my hogs with a pistol[smilie=1: .preferably a .44 magnum!

Dale53

[Scrounger]

A friend of mine, now passed on, killed a 250 pounder in central California with a knife. It wasn't supposed to work that way but he had no choice. The dogs treed the hog and started a free for all. The guide jumped in to save his dogs and too late realized he was over-matched. He was screaming to Larry for help and of course he couldn't shoot into the mess so he just had to jump in with his knife. Worked out OK, he killed the hog but nobody, man or dog, came out of that brawl without bruising and bleeding. Don't think he ever went hog hunting again.

[rmb721]

I don't have a snubby, but my favorite load for .38 special is a Lyman 358429 boolit with 4.5 grains of Unique.

[DanWalker]

A few pics of me in my hog killin' days.
The last one is the last "HOG" I killed with the snubby.

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't developed a "snubbie-specific" load for 38 Special, even when I carried one all the time. I developed loads that duplicated my carry rounds (the now-discontinued W-W 110 JHP +P) and shot those loads as practice rounds in the 38's I carried at the time--2" Model 10, 4" Model 64, 6" Model 14.

It has been close to 20 years since I carried a 2" 38 Special in harm's way. Where does the time go.......if I were to do so again, I would find a 3" Model 13 or 65, or a Ruger SP-101, and carry 357's. For paper-punching or sport shooting, that Model 10 is sorely missed.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I carried the .38 S&W 10 w 4" hvy bbl for 20 years along with the badge shown in my avitar. I also had a model 10 2" bbl with the round butt as my off-duty piece. That was a fine shooter. I was more accurate with the snubby than with the service gun. I think because it fit my hand better and had a nicer balance. About 15 yrs ago I swapped that snubby and the duty gun for a 586 6" Combat Magnum. This is a fine weapon but I still miss that old snubby. It carried 6 rounds and was tough as steel. H*** it was steel. Now my best shooter is a Taurus 1911 in .45 ACP. I never could get a group smaller than 1.5 " with any handgun at 25 yds but this new 1911 gets them down to 1.26" at 25 yds.

[JRR]

In my experience with 2-3 in. 38 revolvers is that with the fixed sights, high speed or light bullets shoot too low.

To shoot to point of aim with a 38 snubby, I used Speer or Hornady 158 gr. soft lead hollow points with 4.5-5 grs. of Unique. A cast 158 gr. SWC is better for practice.
Jeff

[BD]

I'll second JRR; 158 grain soft point or SWC over 4.5 grains of HPC-18, or 231. This shoots to POA in my snubby and groups well. Shooting fast it's still on target. If I point shoot light, fast bullets in the snubby I tend to send them way too high. IMHO snubbies need to be "point shooters".
BD

[Char-Gar]

The 38 Special is a special pet of mine. I have more 38 Special sixguns (Colt and Smith and Wesson) than any other caliber. I don't have a count but it must be around a dozen.

My loads are nothing special, just the tried and true stuff.

1) 3 grains of BE or 231 under a 145-150 grain wadcutter

2) 4.5 to 5 grains of Unique under any good 150 -160 cast bullet. I also use 5.5?AA5 for the same purpose.

3) The most accurate bullet I have found to date in the 38 Special is the Lyman 358311 RN. My most used SWC is the old SAECO/Cramer No. 12.

I do load some heavy stuff for my 38-44 Heavy Duty Smith and Colt New Service, using Lyman 358156 HP. I would not use these loads in run of the mill 38 Special revolvers.

[35remington]

I always found it interesting how different bullets got different velocities in my 2 inch .38's, same charge.

Titegroup, 148 cast WC 850 fps (kinda fast) 158 SWC 800 fps 158 flatpoint 750 fps.

I fiddled around with it awhile and it's position insensitive like they say but I never really got good grouping with it. At least, as far as I can tell. Shooting a 2 inch really takes concentration for me; the five shotters, that is.

So I'm back to Bullseye and Unique like the other fellas here. Second BD's 4.5 W231 and the SWC. Good load.

[Bret4207]

Huh! Looks like I'm in good company. Lyman 358477 (I think, PB 155 SWC) backed by 5.0 Unique or a H+G #50 WC pushed by 2.7-3.0 BE. The WC load shoots really well. The SWC hasn't been put on paper seriously yet, but shoots minute of baseball sized rock at 20 yards. Scientific I ain't.

I've thought of HPing some of the white box Winchester 38RN I have on hand. Someday......

[9.3X62AL]

Another yes vote for the Lyman #358477. I have no idea how many of those my 38 Special and 357 Magnum revos have run downrange, many thousands at minimum. The boolits shoot well, and the castings fall free without a hitch.

[Charlie Horse]

I haven't developed a "snubbie-specific" load for 38 Special, even when I carried one all the time. I developed loads that duplicated my carry rounds (the now-discontinued W-W 110 JHP +P) and shot those loads as practice rounds in the 38's I carried at the time--2" Model 10, 4" Model 64, 6" Model 14.

It has been close to 20 years since I carried a 2" 38 Special in harm's way. Where does the time go.......if I were to do so again, I would find a 3" Model 13 or 65, or a Ruger SP-101, and carry 357's. For paper-punching or sport shooting, that Model 10 is sorely missed.

I have always wanted a 2" round butt model 10. That, and a Thompson:Fire: .

[Bear4570]

I keep my 2" 38's loaded with 148 gr HBWC loaded upside down over 4.0 grains of bullseye. Pretty intimidating hollow point for sure and doesn't give me very good accuracy past 20 yards, but these are my house guns and shoot nice groups out to 20 yards, don't need to shoot much over that, If I do, got better guns close by for the job.

Shot a good size ground hog earlier this summer with it, that I caught trying to clean out my garden and it sure made a big ugly exit hole in it.

[Dale53]

I had several conversations with a National Champion PPC Shooter who was also on the New York Stake Out Team. He was involved in several rather serious gunfights with stone cold killers. He told me that it is hard to beat a .38 Wadcutter to the eye. He was a fan of full power wadcutters (Many years ago they were available in factory loads). I prefer using factory loads for various reasons (some good reasons and some perhaps not so good reasons) but if you were loading your own, it would be hard to beat a solid wadcutter (say a dbl ended) with a full charge of the appropriate powder behind it. You could load it out to reduce the loading density. I would also want something on the order of a "round flat" for a quick reload (wc's don't load well at all as most of you know).

I am presently carrying 120 gr j-hollow point factory loads in my .38 special snubby.

Dale53

[oso]

Our comfortable load in my CA Police Bulldog or my wife's Colt DS is a 131 gr Lyman 358480 SWC or the Lee 358-140-SWC over +/- 4 grains of HP38 or Scott 453.
Our serious load is 158 gr SWCHP or Lee 358-158-RF over 6.5 grains HS6 or W540.

[Charlie Horse]

This is a fairly typical 25 yard group. Actually, it will do better.

When I first bought this Taurus snubby it grouped high and to the left. I was feeding it Lee DE TL wadcutters sized to .3575 which were loaded on a Dillon Square Deal over 2.8 grains of Bullseye and lubed with LLA. I had to file .018" off the right side of the front sight to zero the groups for windage. Then I upped the charge to 3.0 grains which made it print lower and tightened up the groups noticeably. I like this load because I can shoot about 100 of them before I get the jitters.
The Taurus requires that the boolits be sized down to no more than .358". Unsized loads won't chamber, although they will in my S&W Models 15 and 36.

I really like this Taurus and I'm amazed by it's accuracy. It's fun to see the looks on the faces of the other shooters when I consistently ring the 12" gongs at 50 yards shooting double action.:Fire:

[MakeMineA10mm]

I've loaded my fair share of those 148gr HBWCs upside down, too. I like light loads in the 38 Snubbie (my current one is a Colt SF-VI), and this bullet with 3-3.5grs of W231 always expands, even at the low velocities encountered. (I haven't chronoed it, but I'm sure it's 800fps or slower.)

My other load for 38 Spl. is two .375" round balls (sized to .358, so that they have a short straight section) loaded atop one another with some NRA Alox bullet lube in between. (I pour out a thin sheet in a pie pan and after seating the first RB, I press the half-loaded case into the pie pan to pick up a wad of lube before seating the top RB.) The RBs weight about 80grs each, and due to the extra seating depth, and my desire for low recoil, I use 3grs of W231, or 4grs of Unique.

I consider both of the above loads "stunts" and use them mostly for entertainment (surprised look on faces when they see the huge hollow point or get 12 holes on the paper with only 6 shots fired...).

If I were seriously carrying a 38 for defense, I would buy a soft-lead swaged 158gr LSWC-HP (w/ cupped-style hollow base too, if I could find it), and load it to +P pressures, probably with W231, since it's faster-burn rate would give less flash and noise than a slower powder out of a snubbie's short barrel. Even at +P pressures, 38s are not high-pressure guns, and the soft lead and hollow base would help obturate the bullet in the throats and barrel, and the soft-lead SWC-HP nose would penetrate and expand (of if it didn't expand still give SWC killing power). This is the type of load that has always scored highest in both the FBI-testing (Fackler) and has also performed well (for a 38) in the "one-shot-stop" data (Marshall & Sanow).

[336A]

My general purpose load for my 4" S&W M10-14, & M60 ND is a 158gr SWCover 4.6gr of Unique. For the serious stuff it is a Hornady 158gr SWCHP over 5.3gr of Unique. That last load will either duplicate or slightly exceed the famous "FBI" Load, and is a tenth of a grain under book max +P. So if there are any new reloaders viewing DO A PROPER LOAD WORK UP and progress slowly.

[lawboy]

Not advocating anyone else do this, but lately I have been shooting a fair amount of this load -- Lyman 358439HP over 6.7grs Green dot roll crimped at groove in Nickel FC +P+ cases. This is well above +P and I shoot it only in 357 Magnum revolvers.

[Poohgyrr]

Looking for info on 38's and found this thread. I had to go check - picked up a two hole 358477 Lyman cheap last year - and glad to hear the good news.

[Bret4207]

Looking for info on 38's and found this thread. I had to go check - picked up a two hole 358477 Lyman cheap last year - and glad to hear the good news.


Straight WW alloy will probably work fine for this boolit and cartridge combo. Anything from 750 fps on up should work for what we want. That boolit will penetrate way more than the latest 110 gr superwhizbangtacticalelite+++peepee+++bondedjacket coppercladwonderround.

For those of you from Rio Linda that means you'll be ok with it.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[9.3X62AL]

There is much to like about Lyman #358477. In terms of sheer numbers, it is by far my most-fired cast boolit. Zillions of B-27 and other targets, and many hundreds of varmints and small game have fallen to it. From speedloaders, the radiused nose makes cartridge line-up with the cylinder less problematic than WC's or the Keith #358429.

The only element of the 110 grain +P JHP that I favored was the increased velocity the short bullets enabled. These ran about 1000 FPS from the 4" barrel of my issued M-64. These loads were not especially accurate--they would manage 10-ring-sized groups at 25 yards on the B-27, but group centers were about 4" low. 158 grain boolits--standard or +P--were "point of aim/point of impact", and group sizes were 1/3 smaller too. My agency's old W-W 110 grain +P load is now out-of-print, obliging us to use Remington 125 grain JHP +P. If it were my decision, the "FBI Load" using the 158 grain swaged HP at +P pressures would get my vote for felon repellant in the 38 Special. I don't currently carry a 38 Special, though--I opted for the 357 Magnum when it got the green light by my agency in 1991, and I have a 4" Model 686 (among others) "on paper" for my CCW. W-W 357/158 grain JHP's are its fodder.

[shotstring]

I usually go with whatever load shoots the most accurately in that particular snubbie. On paper, there has never been a hollowpoint designed that reliably expands in a 2" barrel, and all my testing has shown me the same thing. I spent years trying to design a hp that would open up at 38 velocities in a 2" bbl, and nothing ever worked. I had loads that would open up, but they wouldn't penetrate - they would blow up on a leather jacket. Others would penetrate but not expand. I don't think anyone has ever gotten it do both reliably. Soooo...wadcutters are as good as anything, and better than most.

[dubber123]

I won't give load specifics, and some of you will see why, but using Unique, you can get a Hornady 148 gr. HBWC to 970 fps. from a 1-7/8" barreled S&W Chiefs Special. I have shot ALOT of these, with no problems. Primers look fine, and extraction is easy. I also know about 3/4 grain more powder will get you TWO holes or more on target, as the hollow base will come apart. At least in wet newsprint these do expand nicely. Again, not recommended, but there it is.