.410 Re- Loader

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Good Day Gentlemen,

Does anyone have a 410 Lee Loader that they would be willing to send me some pictures and snap some dimensions of? I have wanted to clone a lee in 410 for years but have never been able to put my hands on one. I'm an ex-Navy MR with access to a nice machine shop. I would be willing to send a copy of my version to who ever was willing to help me with the dimensions/pictures if they wanted. It would probably take awhile to complete as I would be tinkering after work and in my spare (read not much) time, but I think this would be a worthy cause and alot of fun. Any help would be appreciated

Kind Regards,
Everett

[dannyabear]

[Me too, I've been thinking about buying a lee load all and trying to make the parts to convert it to 410

[Lucky Joe]

If I'm not mistaking fellow forum member Lar45 is working on that now. I believe he plans to have them available in the future, although I'm not sure when. He has the means and skill to do it. Might want to let him know of the interest. If all else fails I do have one and I'd be happy to help if I can.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Lucky Joe,

I was suprised by the fact that no had done this before. I hope to be able to get this project off the ground. If I don't get a response from LAR 45. Then maybe you can send me the info. Thanks for responding.

Everett

[Lucky Joe]

SPRINGFIELDM141972,

He's a good guy, he'll get back with you. But if not for some reason let me know I have this thread marked.

[dannyabear]

I've been thinking about that tooo; I just gave up and scored a MEC 600 jr on ebay for $32.00 so i'm set now.

I am looking for a couple of hundred 3" winchester AA HS hulls if anyone knows of a source. Thanks

[Old Ironsights]

Lar45 has done the "engineering" work on getting one of my .410 Lee Loaders duplicated. (I've done the "paper" work. The hazards of being a Legal minded Geek...)

As the Patent is expired, we can produce at will, assuming that we can find someone crazy enough to turn them. (It's all dimensional Lathe Work).

(Contact Lar45... the more Small Shops making these, the better...)

I have about 200 star crimpers and am working with Plano to get boxes to put the kits in.

We should hopefully have them for sale soon-ish (as in less than a decade), but I can't say when.

(At the moment I'm still working on a heavy .410 slug loading. the 140 is looking good for tha "average" Cylinder Bore, and I'm just starting on the 195 at .420 for my .417 CB)

[EDG]

I have an new unused 3" .410 Lee loader. Mine has the turned aluminum dippers with wood handles. What dimensions do you need? I also have the little aluminum conical .410 "shell conditioner".

[turbo1889]

Well, I used to have one, but gave it away when I got an MEC machine to take it's place. Yah, the little tool went to a good home of someone who was just starting out in reloading along with it's brother in 30-30 but I've still been kicking myself ever since for that one.

Currently my thoughts are along the lines of making a set of dies that will fit in a standard reloading press with 7/8 threads and use a .303-brit. shell holder with the primer drop through hole enlarged. Make the first die a sizer/decapper just deep enough to handle a wildcatted 3-1/2 inch shell (got the room in the die blank so why not). Put a carbide ring on the bottom to size at least most of the brass base (yah, it won't get the part inside the shell holder but would still be better then no size at all) Make the deprimer rod enlarge to a taper so it opens up the crimp all the way on a shell that's at least 2" long. Next I think a ram prime unit could be modified to work with 209 primers. Next die would be a simple wad-stuffer tube that was hollow and had the right hole size on top to fit a reloading funnel just like the Lee powder through dies in their pistol sets -- That takes care of powder, wad, and shot just measure and then poor into the funnel. Final die would be a crimp die -- hollow body with an "air-hose quick disconnect" style unit on top with a double sided snap in insert. One side for crimp start; other side for crimp finish. Just work the lever once, flip the top peice, and work the lever again to fully crimp star style crimps. Roll crimps could be done with a drill unit from BP.

Right now it's a pipe-dream, but I see no reason why you couldn't build and market a three die set for 410 including the moddified shell holder and ram prime unit that could be used in any standard metalic reloading press. You could load just about any .410 shell with such a die set from 2" stubby 1/4 oz. roll crimped slug loads made from worn out 2.5" shells to a 3.5" magnum wildcat shell. You could even reload full length steel and brass shells with that carbide ring and then crimp them with a 45-Colt crimp die.

[Granny taught me to shoot]

I used to have one. Have not used it in decades. I'll start looking around for it in my bench rubble. If I find it, you can have it free.

[bullshot]

Springfieldm141972
I have a Lee loader in 410, missing the punch to install the primer. PM me your address and it yours.

[725]

I hope you can go into production for the .410 "Lee" loader. I'll stand first in line to buy one. Have always wanted one but, now that they have achieved cult status, of sorts, i can't afford one.
725

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Bullshot/Granny Taught Me to Shoot-

Thank You for your offer, but I purchased a used MEC 650 for $30.00 since posting this thread. I found it in junk/parts box at a resale shop! All it took was a little pentrating oil to free it up.

Kind Regards,
Everett

[JIMinPHX]

I would love to buy a Lee Loader style set up in .410 or the 3 die set up in .410 if any of you guys are selling them yet. If you’re not actually going to get around to making them any time soon, then I’d really appreciate any info that you could forward to me so that I can make one for my own personal use. The price of .410 ammo is just more that I am willing to spend & it ain’t like the material cost of that ammo is the reason.

Thanks,
Jim

[utk]

If you're interested in reloading for .410 with brass, do a Google search for ".410 reloading".
For example, this article pops up:

http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

[JIMinPHX]

Actually, I think that I have most of this figured out now. I’ve got the sizing, decap, reprime, powder charge, wad insertion & shot charge all hammered out. The only place that I’m coming up short is on the crimp. I’ve never done shot shells before, just a lot of pistol & rifle cartridges. Does anybody have any good suggestions for hand crimping a .410?

[JIMinPHX]

I think I’ve got it licked. I’ll post about how I did it later.

[JIMinPHX]

That is, I’ll post if anybody has any interest in this. Is anyone interested?

[Chiefs50]

I Certainly am interested

[725]

Oh yeah. I'm very interested. I'm hopen' somebody here is going to make the lee loader type job available. I'd be first in line. I don't know anything about patents, etc, but have been told that same is about to run out for Lee. If it's legit and true, I'm sure somebody is going to make a small fortune with those things.

[Lucky Joe]

Here is another interested party Jim, let her rip.

[JIMinPHX]

Alright, here goes –

Step 1

The first thing to do is decap. That was easy. I just turned a little base with a 3/8” hole for the old primer to drop down into & a little lip with a .535” ID to hold the spent shell centered. I turned a 4” long piece of 1/4" 1018 cold roll down to .150” diameter for a quarter inch at the end & used that for the punch. 3/8” stock would have been nicer to use, but I had a piece of 1/4" handy. Pay no attention to the area that is turned down near the top in the photo. I was using scrap material & that’s what was handy.

[JIMinPHX]

Step 2 – repriming

I took the easy way out here. I had a piece of stock laying around with a 1/2" hole already in it, so I just set that up on a vice, dropped the shell in it & tapped a new primer in with a rubber mallet. In reality, what I should have done was go out & buy a sizing collar off of a commercial press for about $4 & used that here instead. That way, I would have gotten sizing & priming out of the way. As it turns out, my hulls fit in my chamber as is, so I didn’t need sizing.

[JIMinPHX]

Step 3 – reaming out the old hull

I spun a piece of 1/2" aluminum down to .410” diameter for 3” & left another inch or so on the end as a handle. I chamfered the end pretty well. I used this to open up the end of the hull as needed.

[JIMinPHX]

Step 4 – powder charge

I just weighed out a charge of H110 from Hodgden’s reloading data & dumped it in the shell with a small funnel. I used the lessor charge for the Federal primer even though I was using Winchester primers. I figured that going a little on the lite side out of the gate was a good thing. I know that you're not supposed to download H-110 too far though.


Step 5 – Wad

I spun down another piece of aluminum to .335” diameter for 2.75” & left another inch or so on that for a handle too. No big rocket science here, I just used it to jam a wad in & leaned on it pretty good to make sure that it was home all the way.

[JIMinPHX]

Step 6 – Shot charge
I weighed out 3/4 oz. Of #8 & dumped it in with the same funnel that I had used for the powder. I tamped it down a little with the same tool that I had used to insert the wad so that it would leave me enough room for a good crimp. I also made note of the Lee dipper that was filled by this amount of shot, but I don’t have that note handy here at the computer right now.


Step 7 – Crimp

Here’s where it gets a little hairy. What I should have done, is go out & buy a 6-point star crimp die for like another $4. Instead, I just started the crimp with my thumbnails.

[JIMinPHX]

When it got about like this, I moved on to the next crimping step.

[JIMinPHX]

Here’s where I got a little more complicated. I made up a little retaining collar with a .455” ID to support the top of the shell. I only made it about 1/2" long, but in hind sight, I should have made it the full length of the shell’s plastic section for better support. I also made a little crimp “button” that had a 5/16” diameter for .050” long, followed by a .450” diameter that fit into the .455 ID of the retaining collar so as to keep the button centered on the shell.

[JIMinPHX]

I set the retaining ring & button up on top of the shell & put the whole mess in a single stage reloading press, between two pieces of scrap flat stock. 1/8” is thick enough. 3/16” is the most I could fit.

[JIMinPHX]

If I was careful about how much pressure I applied, I could get a good crimp. If I went too hard, I would buckle the hull & then need to repair the buckled section by sliding the retaining ring over it. If I had made the retaining ring the length of the shell’s plastic section, this would not be an issue. I’ll probably make a longer retaining ring eventually, but for now, I have enough ammo made up to test out tomorrow morning at the range & it looks pretty good.

[JIMinPHX]

Now if anybody sees anything here that looks unsafe or that should be done differently, please let me know. I’ve never loaded shot shells before. I just looked through the Lee reloading manual’s section on shot shells, got some loading data from Hodgden for some powder that I already had & loaded up with tools that I made from general knowledge as I went.

Like I said, if anybody sees anything off-spec about what I have here, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

[JIMinPHX]

In hindsight, I probably should have taken the advice of others & used a shell holder from a .303 Brit with an expanded hole in the center.

[JIMinPHX]

After having done some more of these, I’ll add that the more you get the crimp started before you hit it with the button, the better it works out. What is shown in the picture is about the minimum that will give you good results. Anything less than that makes a mess of the crimp. A deeper start than the picture shows makes it easier to get a good finished crimp.

[JIMinPHX]

About a week or two ago, one of the board members put a bug in my ear about getting back to this project again. It just happened to coincide with me trying to load up some 12 Ga. shells on a genuine Lee Loader, so all the stars kind of lined up & fell into place to get me back to improving the old .410 prototype. I've made some real progress. I'm actually happy with what I have now.

I was really disappointed with the genuine article from Lee. I've liked every other piece of equipment that I've ever bought from Lee, but their shot shell Lee Loaders do not play well with plastic hulls at all. I made a mess of every hull that I tried to load with it. The biggest problem was that the ram didn't have a stop collar on it to limit it's travel. I ended up shelving the whole Lee contraption & making my own from scratch. You can see a picture of my 12Ga. rig down near the bottom of this page - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=88327

Back to the .410 project -
While I made up some nicer tools for decapping & repriming, there is really no new news there, so I'm not going to waste a bunch of space posting pictures of those tools. The real improvements came in the crimping & the shell support during crimping. Also, I found that I don't need to use a press at all. The force of hand pressure on the dies is enough to get the job done.

I'll start at the point where you already have the primer, powder, wad & shot in the hull. The first thing to watch is that you have the right amount of space left at the top of the shell. About 5/16" is good.

[JIMinPHX]

The next thing to do is start your crimp. jsizemore tipped me off that I could buy crimp starters from Precision Reloading. They were about $4 + shipping for a MEC. The .410 version is shown in the top left picture below.

The second picture shows the crimp starter being jammed down onto a shell that is sitting inside an aluminum stop collar that prevents you from pushing it down too far.

The bottom picture shows what the crimp looks like when you pull the starter off of it.

[JIMinPHX]

At first, I tried going straight to a punch die to finish the crimp. This gave me poor results as shown in the first picture below. Then I tried improving the started crimps by hand & got the results shown in the second picture. This worked, but it was slow, labor intensive & a little inconsistent.

[JIMinPHX]

My next innovation was the addition of an intermediate step. I made a little tapered die that pulls the started crimp further into center before the punch hits it. It's shown in the first picture below. The second picture shows this die inserted in a tight fitting tube that supports the shell & also acts as a depth stop.

[JIMinPHX]

The last step is the punch die. You remove the taper die from the tight fitting tube, replace it with the punch die & push down until the die hits the shoulder of the tube.

[JIMinPHX]

The pictures below show the crimp after the crimp starter (top left), after the taper die (bottom left) & after the punch die (top right).

[JIMinPHX]

Finished shells are shown below. They are a mixture of once fired hulls (3 pieces) & others that had been previously reloaded on the old rig. The one in the back, on the left, didn't have quite enough shot in it. I was just filling the shot to the correct level by eye. I probably should have measured a little more carefully.

[9.3X62AL]

NICELY finished 410s, for certain!

I hunt doves and quail with a Rem 870 in 410, 3" shells with 11/16 oz of #9 shot. If I limit shots to 35 yards, I see little difference in effectiveness to the 20 or 12 bores on smaller birds.

[JIMinPHX]

The ones that I loaded were 3/4 oz #8 in 3" Winchester HS hulls. They seemed to pattern well out of a full choke topper.

[oldtoolsniper]

JIMinPHX,
I load a lot of shotgun shells. The .410 is the most demanding as far as I am concerned. With the twelve a small problem is hidden in a large mass and in the .410 a small problem is a big problem with those little buggers. I am impressed in what you have accomplished, the biggest hurdle to overcome on the .410 is case buckling. When you go into production let me know! I need a 2 3/4" and a 3" even though I have the full size presses.

[part_timer]

Very nice Jim, I'm always amazed at the "Git er Done" that the members here come up with.

[Catshooter]

Very informative Jim, thank you!


Cat

[BCB]

JIMinPHX,

Are you planning on making these available for sale?

Or, are they simply to labor intensive to sort of mass produce?

I sure would be interesed...

Thanks...BCB

[JIMinPHX]

JIMinPHX,

Are you planning on making these available for sale?

Or, are they simply to labor intensive to sort of mass produce?


I've got to figure out how I can do that efficiently. I've got a prototype shop, not a production shop. I can make a few here & there, but I'm probably not going to be able to get anywhere near the traditional pricing from Lee, at least not the way that I'm making them now. They really need to be made on a CNC lathe & I don't have one of those at the moment. I'll have to think about what the best way to do that would be. Please give me some time on that.

[Bret4207]

I've been told and have done very limited experimenting that indicates a little heat helps the crimp form. Their used to be a "spinner" that fit over the case mouth and when spun with a drill finish formed the crimp. The heat from the spinning supposedly relaxed the memory of the plastic and let it reform. Maybe warming your crimping tool with a blow dryer would help?

[oldtoolsniper]

Bret,
That is true to a certain extent but you have to apply pressure at the same time and then you get case buckle or a burr head for lack of a better term that won't chamber. I roll crimp all sorts of shotgun shells on a drill press and the friction produces heat and then the case head collapses into a roll crimp. It takes some pressure and a few wrecked cases before you get the feel for it. I hold the cases in a Mec super sizer to try and prevent case bulging. For roll crimping the best tools are the old Lyman roll crimpers that are no longer made.

[JIMinPHX]

I've come up with a few ways to simplify the tool. In a few more days, I hope to have an equally effective, but less expensive version prototyped.

[Mk42gunner]

Jim,

I like the looks of your setup. I started reloading with a .410 Lee Loader then got one for a 20 Ga. The weak points that I found were there didn't seem to be any sizing of the case, (important with an H&R), and the crimps were next to impossible to get right. Also on the .410, if memory serves different makes of cases were different lengths. Also I never could get Federals to crimp because at that time (late 70's) they were roll crimped.

Robert

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks Robert,
That's good information.

I think that I am going to come out of the gate with a gizmo that is set up for 3" Winchester HS hulls as a standard. If someone needs a version that will work with different hulls, then that will be a custom item & they will need to send me a few hulls as samples to measure.

If someone want's to do roll crimps, then they are going to need a different tool. I haven't had any luck with roll crimping at all.

At this time, I am not including a sizing ring, because my Topper doesn't seem to mind the same shells being used again without sizing. It shouldn't be a big deal to add a sizing ring if someone needs one though.

[oldtoolsniper]

Jim,
I have seven or eight roll crimpers for , 10, 12 and 20 gauge and they are not created equal. The old lymans are the best if you can find them. I have a 10 gauge one made out of brass that works incredibly well, it was made by E.O. Dugdale back in the fifty's as far as I can tell. Shotgun shell trimmers make your cases all the same.

[lawhetzel]

Ballistic Products which carries a full line of shot shell reloading supplies -- hulls, wads, shot, etc. -- has a line of "spinners" for roll crimping shot shells using a drill. They have them for all gauges including .410 bore.

[Phat Man Mike]

:redneck: looking good:p I just picked up a versa M E C with some extras for a c note the other day!! I need to get of my but and get it set up !:holysheep

[oldtoolsniper]

I have a Ballistic Products 12 gauge roll crimper and it is very poor. I would recommend the Precision Reloading companies roll crimpers if I had to buy modern. I own theirs as well and it is real close to the Lymans.

[JIMinPHX]

I'm up to revision #3 now. This is what it looks like -

[Lucky Joe]

That looks good, I have a Lee hand loader for the .410 and a Mec .410 loader. Don't think the Mec does as good a job as yours. Let us know when they are available I'd like to try one.

[JIMinPHX]

I think that I have a way to make this thing adjustable, both for fine tuning & also to allow it to be used with shells as short as 2-1/2". I should be able to have that worked out by Tuesday. I hope to get some pricing together by then too.

[JIMinPHX]

Version 4 is up & running. This is what it looks like. I'll try to figure out what pricing needs to be by tonight.

[Lucky Joe]

If it works for 3" and 2.5" and is as good as you say plus is priced so the average fellow can get one. Well you may have bitten off an awful lot to chew, nice problem though. Hope this works out for you.

[JIMinPHX]

Here's the story -

I started out intending to make this thing as reasonably priced as possible, even if it would mean that the user would be limited to using just one type of hull. I streamlined the design as much as I could, but I still could not get down to traditional Lee pricing. That's not all that surprising. They have economy of scale & I don't. I then found that for just a little bit more, I could make this thing adjustable, so that it would work with most folded hulls. Therefore, what it looks like I am going to end up offering, is a slightly more deluxe version, for more than I had originally wanted to charge.

I took the time to generate precision dimensions where they were needed. I took the time to break the sharp edges, add knurels where appropriate & make the unit functional. I did not take the time to shine it up & put a show finish on it. The basic unit will be $65 & will include the spindex crimp starter that I buy from MEC. It will not include a steel ring for resizing the brass portion of the shell. I haven't needed a steel sizing ring yet, so I don't think that it will be necessary for most people that are always loading for the same gun. If you already have a MEC 410 press with a spindex crimp starter, then you can get my little rig, less the crimp starter for $5 less. If you want a steel sizing ring for the brass section of the hull, that will be $10 extra.

I ordered 10 crimp starters from MEC last week, but they are not here yet. Hopefully, they will arrive soon. I can't ship a complete unit until they get here. I'll try to check on their arrival date tomorrow. I'll also try to get started making parts, since I know that at least several people want one of these things.

[Lucky Joe]

410's are among the costliest to buy and at the same time the most economical to reload. At least that's my take. One will have to determine how much shooting he or she will do, I think at $65.00 if you can hold that price for a while you should sell your loader especially as word gets around.

Good luck I'd like to get one someday.

[JIMinPHX]

I have instructions for these things all written up, with pictures & everything, in a MS-Word document. I'd like to post it here, but I'm not having much luck. Pictures alone post fine for me, but the Word document just doesn't show up. Does anyone have any advice on how to make that work?

[BCB]

JIMinPHX,

Maybe you could just copy and paste the document in a regular post...
(Ctrl A to select all, then Ctrl C to copy it, then Ctrl V to post it)...

If it doesn't work--heck, just delete it...

I do all of my replies on a Word document and then just copy and paste it to the thread...

Good-luck...BCB

[Mk42gunner]

Jim,

I would like one of your reloading setups; but the only .410 I have anymore is my Grandpa's old Iver Johnson Champion, with 2 1/2" chamber. Plus I might have shot half a box of shells through it in the last six years, so it really would not be cost effective for me.

Now if I could just find my old .410 Lee kit, the last time I looked on evilbay they were bringing around $100. I would sell it and buy one of yours.

Robert

[BCB]

JIMinPHX,

This is a pic of the 10 gauge handloader that I have used for—I don’t know how many years!!! A clue might be the price of $9.95…

Regardless, this set-up is the same principle as the one you have fabricated…

I continue to use it for speciality reloads for turkey as water foul hunting is long in my past...

Slow, but works very well...

(Now if I could find some Winchester paper hulls of many many years gone by!!!)...

The crimp setter is in the die at the bottom of the Styrofoam holder. It does take a whack or two to get a very tight crimp...

What an innovative set-up...

BCB

[JIMinPHX]

Well, I have some good news & some bad news. The good news is that I got my hands on a few 2-1/2" Winchester HS hulls & I was able to get a half way decent looking shell put together, even though the hull started out as a roll crimped buckshot load. The bad news is that I found out that I forgot to make up a crimp starter stop tube for 2.5". The other bad news is that I also got a Federal hull & that one gave me a few surprises.

Despite the fact that the 2.5" HS hull was originally roll crimped, was a little burnt looking when I started, & I just did the crimp start depth by eye, it still came out sort of OK. The Federal hull gave me a couple of problems. After I primed it, I tried to knock it out of the tube, like I always do. Unfortunately, the primer backed out about 1/8". It would appear that the base of the Federal hull is shorter than the primer. I may need to make a little modification to my wad starter tool to work around that. Another issue with the Fed hull is that the brass is higher & I hadn't clearanced my tube far enough up to accommodate it. That part should be easy enough to fix. My last possible issue concerns the crimp. The plastic material that these hulls are made out of is a bit thinner than the HS hulls I was using. I was able to crimp it, but I'm thinking that a crimp die with a button that is slightly bigger in diameter may make a more positive crimp. I'll have to watch the crimp that I made today & see if it opens up over time.

Anyway, here's a look at the 2.5" shells that I fooled with.

[JIMinPHX]

JIMinPHX,

This is a pic of the 10 gauge handloader that I have used for—I don’t know how many years!!! A clue might be the price of $9.95…


This pictures shows a standard variety 12 Ga. Lee Loader & a Deluxe version 20 Ga. Lee Loader. The Deluxe version looks remarkably similar to yours, right down to the custom fit box. I think that the vintage is about the same too.

I tried to use the 12Ga. version & could not get it to work right, which is why I made my first hand loader in 12Ga. I haven't tried the 20 Ga. version yet.

[JIMinPHX]

Now if I could just find my old .410 Lee kit, the last time I looked on evilbay they were bringing around $100.

I tried to buy a .410 Lee Loader a while back & ran into the same problem. I wrote a letter to Lee about 2 years ago asking them to either bring back the .410 Lee Loader or else make the Load All available in .410. I never even got a reply.:???: That is what brings us to where we are today with this project.8-)

[JIMinPHX]

BCB,
Thanks for the idea. The text portions came across fine, but the pictures did not. The instructions were written up kind of like a comic book, so without the pictures, too much is lost.

If anybody has another method for posting Word documents that I can try, I'm all ears.

[Mk42gunner]

Jim,

Maybe I was doing it wrong those many years ago, but I always installed the primers with the shell outside the die body. Also, it seems like the priming punch had a hollow in the end of it. I can check the one on my twenty guage tomorrow if you need me to.

Robert

[JIMinPHX]

Well I've done a little thinking since I ran into the issues with the Federal hull. This is the position that I'm going to take.

I don't have a lot of experience with shotshell reloading, so I am not familiar with all the different varieties of hulls that are out there. I don't know what the potential differences might be. This rig will work with Winchester HS hulls, either 2.5" or 3". I will include 2 different tubes for use as stops under the starter crimp in the standard kit. That will give good performance on both 2.5" & 3" HS shells. If you need to do a different length & you want me to provide a special length stop tube (like 2.75"), contact me & let me know what length you want.

With Hulls other than Winchester HS, it's going to be a bit of a gamble & I can't promise good results. It may work well. It may not. If someone has a particular hull that they want to use, they can send me a few empty hulls as samples I will evaluate them & see what modifications I need to make so that they will work properly. Those instances will be handled on a case by case basis.

Sorry that I don't have a better response to that issue,
Jim

[sargenv]

After having thought about the economical reloading of the 410.. and after buying all the components and such, I deemed ti too much if a pain in the tuckus to reload those teeny-tiny shotshells. Everything has to be "Just right" otherwise the crimp doesn't work, the brass won't size, or any number of issues with it. I was so fed up with loading the 410 that I practically gave away all the plastic components and sold the press for a small loss. For the small amount that I shoot the 410, I can practically buy a case or two, shoot it up, sell the component hulls, and have a little bonus to buy fresh factory stuff again. Back before ammo went through the roof, I picked up two cases of the stuff for $7/25 shipped. It was and still is worth it to me to just buy the dang stuff. *shrug* but that's me :)

I reload for everythig else (just ask anyone who knows me).. all the way down to 32 S&W long and 32 acp, and I found the 410 to be more trying than anything else I ever tried..

[JIMinPHX]

I've managed to finish making 5 of these complete kits. I tested each one & they all made good looking shells with 3" Winchester HS hulls. They are all equipped to make 2.5" or 3" shells.

2 of the 5 kits are already spoken for. I'd like to keep one myself. That leaves 2 more available. I'm probably not going to have the time to make more of these for a while, so if you're hot to get one quickly, now's the time. I'm not saying that I'll never make them again. I'm just saying that it's probably going to be a while before it happens again.

If you want one, post here that you want it & I'll PM you with details. These two are first come - first served to the people who POST HERE first.

Thanks,
Jim

[wills]

BCB,
Thanks for the idea. The text portions came across fine, but the pictures did not. The instructions were written up kind of like a comic book, so without the pictures, too much is lost.

If anybody has another method for posting Word documents that I can try, I'm all ears.

http://www.zamzar.com/

You might be able to convert the word doc to jpg, which you could post.

[SciFiJim]

Jim,
If you want to email me the Word doc, I will convert it to a .pdf for you and email it back for you to post. I will PM you my email address.



I am interested in one of these for my father-in-law. He is incredibly difficult to Christmas shop for. I have to find out whether he already has a 410 reloading setup or not.

[wills]

If you can post a PDF, open the document, go to file print and select your pdf maker as the printer.

[JIMinPHX]

OK,
I scanned the printed pages at a reasonable resolution, but the board seems to shrink them a little when I click on them to view them. I don't know why the board does that.

If you click on them to open them, then right click on the opened image & select download, the downloaded image that stores on your computer is back to the original size & can be read more clearly.

Anyway, here they are -

[JIMinPHX]

If you click on the image, then after it opens, you click on the opened image, it opens again in a separate window at better resolution.

[SciFiJim]

If you can post a PDF, open the document, go to file print and select your pdf maker as the printer.

JIMinPHX emailed me the .doc and I did just that. It took a 17 meg .doc file down to a 1 meg .pdf. The limit on size to post to a thread is 100K.

I am going to shrink the photos and replace them in the doc and then create the pdf and see what that gets.
I will keep everyone posted.

[SciFiJim]

OK, I am only able to get it down to 720K without resorting to a drastic remake of the file.

Is there anyone else that can get is smaller? Not a challenge, just hoping someone can.

I can email you the original doc to play with.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim, take a look at the end of page 4. See what you think.

[SciFiJim]

Jim,
I was hoping for an elegant solution (1 file), but brute force methods work also.:mrgreen:

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks for taking the time to try.

[JIMinPHX]

Geeze,
I thought that I was going to be swamped with more interest in these things than I could handle, but nobody has jumped up to buy the two kits I have available. That kind of surprised me.

Oh well, I'll keep the stuff out on the bench for the rest of this week & after that, I'll shelve it. If anyone want's one of the two kits that isn't spoken for, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

[45nut]

If any of you have been waiting for a review................

This is a neat piece of kit and works just as advertised. I am pretty impressed at the simplicity and ease of use. I know the .410 as a very expensive shell to buy across the counter and when you talk buckshot it skyrockets, this tool frees you to make your own buck loads for pennies.

The directions were clear and the pictures put you right on the trail to completed shells in a jiffy,, now where did I put the rest of my spent .410's.......................

[JIMinPHX]

One more is now spoken for. That leaves 1 still available.

[saigafan2008]

Jim,

Try getting PrimoPDF. Its a free PDF print tool that you can download from the web. I've been using it for years at both work and home and it works great. It's an way to post word docs to the web without losing too much picture quality.

Awesome job on this tool! I'm getting sorely tempted...

Carl

[Big Dave]

Still like my Mec 600 jr. Got three of them, each dedicated, 12 ,20 and 410, though the 410 is a royal PIA to change from 21/2 to 3 inch. If I ever find all brass 410s I think I still have the Lyman set for my Comet press or the Herter #3 in a drawer here someplace. Those old Mecs will put out a hundred rounds an hour easy enough, plenty for my needs,

[JIMinPHX]

The MEC is a nice rig. If I was going to be making .410's in large quantities, it's the press that I probably would have bought.

[Intel6]

I am a big .410 nut and have a grabber for loading 2.5" shells but since it can't load 3" shells I also have a 600 Jr. to load those. It is too bad because the grabber really cranks out some shells. I use the 2.5" shells for skeet and dove hunting so I shoot a lot more 2.5" than 3"

And just because I want them (not need them) I also have collected 3 of the Lee loaders for .410.

Neal in AZ

[JIMinPHX]

What's a grabber?

[Big Dave]

Used to go thru a lot of 410s, Wife likes the low recoil and both daughters started with 410s.
Three guns can make a lot of empties in an afternoon. Time to time I even helped it along, little Stoeger import side by side with rabbit ear hammers. Both girls moved up to 20 and 12 ga. but grand daughters are starting to get interested so 410 will be in demand again. Had a lot of "experts" tell me its a poor choice for beginners, to hard to hit with, I'd rather start kids on something they won't be afraid of and when they learn on 410 they are really deadly when they move up bigger guns. Always wanted to try them on 28 ga. but there ain't no cheap ones out there.

[Intel6]

What's a grabber?

Progressive shotshell press that I compare to the Dillon 550. Progressivly works on shells and you advance them by hand. Every crank produces a loaded round. I like it because it also has the collet resizer instead of the ring that scratches up the hull heads.

http://www.mecreloaders.com/ProductLine/8567Grabber.asp

Neal in AZ

[JIMinPHX]

I just saw something that scarred me. I just saw a shotgun primer cup that protruded beyond the base of the shell. If a primer like that were loaded in my rig, it is possible that the shell could discharge when pressure is applied to close the crimp. That would be very bad. I am going to make up some bases with recesses under the primer area for use with these things. I'm going to send them out in the mail today for no charge to anyone I have sent a loader to. In the mean time, please do not use the loader unless your primers are below flush & you are working on a flat clean soft surface.

PMs on their way.

Thanks,
Jim

[JIMinPHX]

The safety rings went out priority mail this morning.

[0verkill]

Any news on these? User end results, uprades or modifications? Any new production?

[JIMinPHX]

There is no new production from me, now that I have safety concerns.

I've never received a complaint from anyone that I've sent one to. I've always gotten good shells off of the one that I kept for myself as long as I use Win HS hulls, 2.5" or 3".

Another board member is working on making a version of this gizmo that will screw into a standard 7/8-14 single stage metallic cartridge reloading press. You might want to watch for that die set to pop up in the Vendor Sponsor area.

[0verkill]

I have an MEC Sizemaster for whem I want to sit in the house and reload. I was just looking for something to use underneath the shadetree.

[Newtire]

Geeze,
I thought that I was going to be swamped with more interest in these things than I could handle, but nobody has jumped up to buy the two kits I have available. That kind of surprised me.

Oh well, I'll keep the stuff out on the bench for the rest of this week & after that, I'll shelve it. If anyone want's one of the two kits that isn't spoken for, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

Hi Jim,
I haven't seen any more on the thread is why I never responded. Wish I would have known. I don't see the link to the PDF or whatever it is either.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I could contribute a nearly complete 410 Lee hand reloader set, with box & instructions in return for a new made set. Please advise.

BvT

[JIMinPHX]

I'm not selling any more of these due to liability concerns.

Sorry about that guys,

Jim

[Newtire]

I'm not selling any more of these due to liability concerns.

Sorry about that guys,

Jim

I say we all sue him for mental anguish-hah hah-just kiddin Jim. It's that way alot though these days and don't blame you!

[Lucky Joe]

I say we all sue him for mental anguish-hah hah-just kiddin Jim. It's that way alot though these days and don't blame you!

Jim, For your ingenuity, work, patience and all else you put into this project. I doft my cap to you sir.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim: I ran into the same problem with interest on my .40S&W case pushers I made 15 blanks and sold 3 completed tools. Which essentuially means I made $45 on the project considering I had 9 hours in the machining, $5 per hour is OK money?. But I do have more blanks if someone or myself needs one.

Sometimes a product flys and sometimes it don't. The "As seen on TV store" is full of them. Don't feel bad, I think you done good, maybe you can sell the design to somebody.

I was considering coming out with a complete line of Lee type hand tools. I do have CNC capabilities, however I'd need $65 for one too. You always have to sell the product for 110-120% over what it costs you to make it ro you loose money. I see Ebay as the only outlet for this type of product, as there isn't enough room for wholesale prices.

Lee stopped making the shotshell tools when they changed from Lee Precision Porducts to whatever they are called now. I have an original version of the tool that was made by Acc-U-Ream Products a division of MA-REP-CO Inc of Fresno CA. Lee got the idea from them. Mine was $14.95 in the 60's and I paid $10 at a swap meet for it.

It's nicely made, but it is difficult to get a really good product from.

I could not reproduce it for $6, even in quantity.

Plenty of used ones available on Ebay for $10-20 so a new one for $65 might not fly. .410 is a different story. Very few of them show up and they always get top dollar for them.

I wouldn't worry about the liability aspect of this tool. It is a tool and all you have to do is put a disclaimer on the invoice saying you are not responsible for the use or mis use of the tool. If they decide to fill the case with H110 and blow themselves up they could have just as easily done that with a hammer and drift punch.

Randy