Hornady's OK BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[charger 1]

This whole notion hornady has of one size fits all when it comes to the bigger gas checks is a tad annoying. You know the 45 for pistol and rifle. Same with the 50. $84 for a box of 50's up here in canuckistan and as they come outta the box their 507. First they aint goin to go on, flexing or not. Secondly ,they'll seal real well in a 510 bore wont they?

Greed is a terrible thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bass Ackward]

That's too bad.

Well, once you get Veral to cut you a mold, get one cavity in a PB. Are you really going to need that many GC bullets a year anyway once you stop experimenting?

The real challenge is to get PB to do the same thing anyway.

[charger 1]

The real UN NECESSARY challenge is to get PB to do the same thing anyway.

Things should just fit as opposed to hornadys one size fits all theory

[NVcurmudgeon]

This whole notion hornady has of one size fits all when it comes to the bigger gas checks is a tad annoying. You know the 45 for pistol and rifle. Same with the 50. $84 for a box of 50's up here in canuckistan and as they come outta the box their 507. First they aint goin to go on, flexing or not. Secondly ,they'll seal real well in a 510 bore wont they?

Greed is a terrible thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

charger1, I can relate to your GC troubles on fit, but fortunately not on price. Ouch! $84 a box? My .35 Whelen mould casts too big on the GC shank, so I anneal the checks and expand them with a homemade punch so they can go on without ruining the bases. Softening the GC eliminates springback and makes the GC stay on. The .44 Magnum Marlin has the opposite problem. The GC shank is too small, so the sized GC doesn't get a firm grip on the boolit. Again, annealed GC that are softer stay on better because of no springback. (This trick works better on oversize GC shanks than undersize.)

But I still wish there was an answer to the shallow cup rifle/pistol size GC. Guess the maker's bottom line dictates making only one height.

[charger 1]

Your right NV and even if I was crazy gluing them on, expanding, you name all the trickypoos. Why ,other than shear greed does a company once again do the one size fits both when it means selling you a gas check .004-.005 to small for bore? What about the poor smuck without the know how ot tools? Well I guess he just gets to pay money and still enjoy gas cutting. Well aint that splendid?

[44man]

One size would work fine if the mold makers would make the boolit shank to fit. I have seen three molds from one company (Same number.) that had three different GC shanks. I blame the molds more then the checks.

[Swagerman]

One method that seems to work for me, get yourself a swaging die from C-H, [smilie=1: one in the caliber you need with the rounded ogive in its top.

Place any bullet you want to mount a gascheck on backward on a flat nose punch, gently run it up into the adjusted swaging die until you get a slight taper on the bottom of the lead bullet....enough so you can reverse the bullet to place the GC under its base then gently ram it up into the swaging die or your luber press in the conventional manner.

If Gas check base is still too big just run it up through a Lee bullet sizer in the diameter you require. Comes out right on the money for me.

Note: It can be any cast bullet, doesn't have to be one with gas check groove rings.

Jim

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P5040031650rtpnon-gascheckseating.jpg


Note the the bullet on right is a 255 grain Lee as dropped from the mould, the middle bullet has had the backward tapering done to it, the bullet on the left is the Hornady GC applied and is the proper diameter needed.




http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P80200353bulletsshowingGCtapercr-1.jpg

[charger 1]

One size would work fine if the mold makers would make the boolit shank to fit. I have seen three molds from one company (Same number.) that had three different GC shanks. I blame the molds more then the checks.

OK so the mold guy makes the mold so as that the check with na .506 diameter goes on. How does 506 get locked on when ran through a 510-512 h&I die, or whatever you use to lock your checks on. AND just how does it seal gas going up a 510 bore? Am I not making this clear. Sure with other sizes theres a nuisance fiddle, but the outside dia atleast is big enough. In 50 cal it dont matter if you can get it to stay on it wont lock on or seal gas

[44man]

The outside diameter of the check should be a little larger then the boolit size so it can be sized to what you need. If the boolit mold is smaller, it should still have a shank to take the larger check. The check will size with the boolit. The problem is that if a mold is for, say a .459 boolit and the check fits, why doesn't it fit a .457 mold? Because the shank is also reduced when they cut the mold. You will see all kinds of dimensions on shanks when all that is needed is to make them to fit the checks no matter what size the mold is cut to.
I don't have a .50 so I don't know what the outside diameter is on checks. The .45 check has an outside diameter of .461 so it should work from that size boolit down to as small as you need.
If the boolit is .459 as cast and the check falls off, the shank is too small. Will it fit a .457 boolit? It will on some molds and on others it doesn't come close.
Using the Lee crimp and getting it to crimp only the upper portion of the check still leaves the base the original size and it should fit the bore.
When I put a .461 check on a boolit and run it into a .459 die, I expect it to size down to .459 and crimp tight, if it doesn't, the boolit shank is wrong.
If you need a larger boolit and a larger check then standard, there is a problem.

[Bass Ackward]

It IS a problem. So what are your options? I gave you one that you slammed. I will try one more.

Have you called Hornady to describe the issue and ask for their solution?

[44man]

Not slammed Bass! :neutral: I agree that a plain base is all that's needed but those that can't remove the check portion of a mold are stuck with it. I for one, am gradually making more PB molds, not only because of the cost but because of the headache of fitting checks. Many can't afford a custom mold and buy what is listed. The problem is that a lot of great boolit designs take a check and the companies don't make two styles of it.
We run into a wall when asking them why not. I can't get any answers from Marlin about the stupid twist rates they use. I can't get an answer from Hodgden about load info. I don't think Hornady is going to make all sizes of checks we need either. And I know Lyman or Lee is not going to make sure their boolits fit the checks we are stuck with. They can't even make a mold the diameter many of us need and make great design boolits with bevel bases.
Cast boolits are relegated to the back, dark corners of the companies as inferior projectiles, they would rather sell jacketed bullets.
If the boolit shank is too small, I sure would not want a smaller check to fit it. If Hornady came out with a larger check, what mold maker would adapt? What would we do with our existing molds?
Your solution is right, use a PB boolit. Now if we could just buy a PB mold for the boolit we want, at a reasonable cost, it would be great!
Hundreds of us in IHMSA spent years trying to get Ruger to offer a great after market factory sight for the Blackhawks, might just have had more luck howling at the moon! To top it all off, every gun maker states that their warranty is void if you shoot handloads.
Now I see some powder companies don't advocate using some of their powders in handguns and quit listing load info.
We of the silver stream are all alone! :(

[Bass Ackward]

Jim,

Just a joke for charger1. I know where he is at. The excitement of putting a project together, researching and paying extra for better specs only to run into a wall.

It's not what you want to hear, I know. My guess is Hornady needs to know and maybe they will cut him a deal if he buys so many. But charger will need to ask.

[charger 1]

Have you called Hornady to describe the issue and ask for their solution?


Yep
"thats what we make. sorry you dont like it"

[charger 1]

Furthermore If Larry blackmore can do it to adress the needs of each boolit size from his dink operation(dink compared to hoenady)with less profit margin and less clientell why cant hornady? The answer lies in greed Bass and nowhere else

[Bass Ackward]

Well .... I kinda figured it. So now what? What does this do for your project? Are you still going to go ahead with it?

You know that you can PM 45 2.1 and ask him about Freechecks. This is a process where you make the checks yourself out of beer cans and such. So they are aluminum. Then just place on a size like normal I guess. Many claim fantastic results for PB bullets. I think it's basically a punch and die setup, but he knows more than me.

Another option.

[charger 1]

Well .... I kinda figured it. So now what? What does this do for your project? Are you still going to go ahead with it?

You know that you can PM 45 2.1 and ask him about Freechecks. This is a process where you make the checks yourself out of beer cans and such. So they are aluminum. Then just place on a size like normal I guess. Many claim fantastic results for PB bullets. I think it's basically a punch and die setup, but he knows more than me.

Another option.


your right but not the route I'm taking. Mr. Blackmore has my order as we speak with permission to bill my C-card whatever extra is req'd to run some proper dia 50's

I JUST DONT CARE ANYMORE. I WILL GET WHAT I PAY FOR IRREGARDLESS OF WHAT I HAVE TO PAY:twisted:

[44man]

I would like to see the punch setup Hornady uses so the edge of the checks come out thicker for the crimp. How do they either get them out of the die or off the punch.
Instead of beer cans, how about aluminum roof sheathing? It is thicker. Maybe even copper roofing, expensive though.

[Bass Ackward]

Instead of beer cans, how about aluminum roof sheathing? It is thicker. Maybe even copper roofing, expensive though.


Why? You prejudice against beer cans? What's your problem? :grin:


Charger1,

Wasn't sure he would be interested in .... smaller orders.

[charger 1]

Charger1,

Wasn't sure he would be interested in .... smaller orders.


Well neither was I but his lady said he did em so what du ell

[nicky4968]

IIRC, Corbin makes equipment to make your own gas checks. (If I go to their site and check, I won't get off this computer before midnight). It would be more expensive than store-boughts, but it might be better than the aggravation.

[44man]

We get big bucks from beer cans, last trip to the scrap yard yeilded $80. But the wife never lets me buy lead when I am there. She holds the money in her tight little fist! :neutral: :neutral:
I also don't see a beer can check working on a boolit cut for a check because of the lack of thickness of a beer can. How does it stay on? Seems to me they would only work on PB.