What a cracked Krag Bolt Looks Like

[uscra112]

Hope the guy who posted these photos of his broken bolts on Gunbroker won't sue me......

[Multigunner]

Looks like one of them has a wash of brass from a melted case head.

[gnoahhh]

I got into a p*ssing contest with a seller on eBay one time when I pointed out that his Krag bolt was cracked. He already had a couple bids, and never did pull the thing from the auction. It looked just like these two.

Thanks for posting the warning. I have come across only one in real life out of the (seemingly) thousands I've looked at.

[Finnmike]

A service to us all. Thanks!

[uscra112]

I got into a p*ssing contest with a seller on eBay one time when I pointed out that his Krag bolt was cracked. He already had a couple bids, and never did pull the thing from the auction. It looked just like these two.

Thanks for posting the warning. I have come across only one in real life out of the (seemingly) thousands I've looked at.

The seller makes it clear that these are cracked, he's not out to cozen anybody. Give him the credit for posting.

I have never seen a cracked bolt, and am glad to have seen these so I can know exactly what to look for. Makes sense, now that I've seen it, that the crack is not in the lug itself but across the shank of the bolt.

I'd buy these as a curiosity, but money is too tight to be buying curiosities.

[blixen]

Thanks!

[copperlake]

In Ackley's tests, there were several surprises he noted besides the now famous Arisaka strength; one of those was Krag's enduring rather severe punishment.

[EDG]

Digging through a box of junk at a gun show I found a nice 6mm Rem seater die made by Wilson.
I also found a Krag bolt with the locking lug missing. The lug was gone, broken off in exactly the same manner as the cracks shown above.

[Multigunner]

In Ackley's tests, there were several surprises he noted besides the now famous Arisaka strength; one of those was Krag's enduring rather severe punishment.

The majority of cracked Krag bolts were caused by an attempt to upgrade the performance of the .30-40 military ball ammunition.
They got around 200 fps increase in velocity with a 3K CUP increase in working chamber pressure, then bolts began to crack.
I figure the 43,000 CUP pressure itself was not the cause, but anytime to increase chamber pressure you run the risk of increasing the maximum deviation pressures as well.
Then there was the added problem of cases tin plated on the inside to reduce the effects of propellant breakdown and products of decomposition on the brass cases.
Tin plating inside the case neck could cold solder to the cupro-nickel jacket of the bullet, or so they say.

Huge quantities of this ball ammo were either remanufactured or sold off to be broken down for components.
I've read that this scrap Krag ammo was still available during WW2 and was a convenient source for bullets and powder for reloading the .30-06 and other .30/.303/7.65 sporting cartridges when reloading supplies were hard to get.

PS
A cracked bolt might have some value to someone who wanted a guide to to machine a replacement bolt of superior steel, or to convert a krag action to a rimfire or low intensity centerfire using the guide rib as the locking lug.
The cracked portion could be cut away and the body threaded for a bolt head suited to the smaller rim.

[madsenshooter]

It appears to me they sometimes didn't bear for the full width of the lug. In the receiver I have that is cracked behind the locking lug recess, the locking lug was only bearing on the right, or outside, corner. It has a crack from each edge of the recess that's about to meet in the middle. It didn't have the original 1892 bolt in it, the rifle had been upgraded. After looking at the bolts in the auction a bit closer, I guess the cracks in the receiver look to be a continuance of the cracks in the bolt, but behind the recess. They're hard to distinguish from machine marks, but run at a different angle than the machine marks do.

[Multigunner]

Another good use for cracked bolts and receivers would be for assembling drill rifles and static display rifles.

Say you run across a returned drill rifle that has salvageable bolt and/or receiver and use these parts to repair a rifle. Take the old un useable parts and worst wood from each rifle then build up a non functional display piece, stripped of useable internal parts, with welded up barrel or dummy barrel, then donate it to a local VFW or other Veterans association or local museum or library.
If well done it would make for a nice display along with maps and memorabilia of the Span Am war and other 1890's conflicts.

[gew98]

20 + some years ago I went with a buddy to DeChristophers 'workshop' in PA. He had a milk crate filled with cracked krag bolts and a box of cracked & fractured krag receivers. I've had more than a few krags years ago and shot them all...but never went retard and loaded them for anything but mild plinking and cast bullet loads. It was an obsolete rifle when adopted in 1892 so keep that in mind. As well with the track record of metalurgy between the Krag and 1903 springfield one may want to take that in consideration too.

[swheeler]

Hope the guy who posted these photos of his broken bolts on Gunbroker won't sue me......


Thanks for posting the pictures, made me dig the Krag out and look at the bolt again, still good to go.

[Harry O]

When I bought my Krag, I was managing a testing lab for a manufacturing company. I checked the bolt with dye penetrant and it passed with flying colors. That picture does not need dye penetrant. It jumps right out at you.

[bob208]

all krag bolts that came my way got mag checked or dye checked. never found a bad one. just lucky i guess.

[Multigunner]

One reason that's its rare to find a Krag rifle with cracked bolt is that the Ordnance dept gave civilian Krag owners free replacement bolts if they sent in the cracked bolt with a note describing the conditions of the failure. Apparently few receivers were damaged by having a bolt crack.

Theres a reprint of the notification about out the free replacement bolts in a American Rifleman special edition I have.
One thing I remember from the notification was the statement that all Krag bolts were interchangeable and required no fitting to the individual rifles.

[Scharfschuetze]

Thanks for posting the photo. I too had not seen a cracked Krag bolt, but have heard of them since childhood. I have a nice 1898 rifle that is great fun to shoot, but given the above, I've only shot cast bullets in it just to be safe. Still, with a 190 grain Hoch mold at 1900 fps, it's far from anemic and is quite accurate.

[jonk]

Very cool picture. I've often wondered what they looked like.

I've owned 3 Krags, currently just have one. None had a cracked bolt, but I keep pressures mild; either cast lead or 2000 fps J-words in the 168 gr range (surprisingly it does very well with these).

[uscra112]

One thing I remember from the notification was the statement that all Krag bolts were interchangeable and required no fitting to the individual rifles.

To which I say, from personal experience, nonsense! My first Krag had headspace approaching .010", but another bolt brought it right down to about .003".

[Multigunner]

To which I say, from personal experience, nonsense! My first Krag had headspace approaching .010", but another bolt brought it right down to about .003".
Of course, but as far as the military was concerned that was close enough. So long as the bolt closed on the rims and the case head didn't blow out it was good to go.
IIRC the military specs called for a .004 to .006 head-gap (as opposed to headspace) when using nominal .060 rims.
Also its likely the first bolt was worn but receiver was not. Sounds like the replacement bolt fit just fine. At least with the cases you were using.

While the Krag manuals list the rim thickness of the .30-40 as .060, that's the minimum, milspec cases could have rims up to .065, and some commercial ammo averaged much thicker rims.

[nicholst55]

I once dropped a Krag bolt from about 3-4 feet onto a concrete garage floor. The bolt handle broke right at the root! Yikes!!! Needless to say, I replaced it.

[uscra112]

Of course, but as far as the military was concerned that was close enough. So long as the bolt closed on the rims and the case head didn't blow out it was good to go.
IIRC the military specs called for a .004 to .006 head-gap (as opposed to headspace) when using nominal .060 rims.
Also its likely the first bolt was worn but receiver was not. Sounds like the replacement bolt fit just fine. At least with the cases you were using.

While the Krag manuals list the rim thickness of the .30-40 as .060, that's the minimum, milspec cases could have rims up to .065, and some commercial ammo averaged much thicker rims.

Sounds like the earliest known instance of "close enough for Government work". [smilie=l:

'Course it was a military arm and had to function with less than optimal ammo, and they probably didn't care about case life, whereas as we reloaders do. Heck, I've read that the design life of WW2 airframes was only 400 hours. (Makes you think when you see those 65 year old warbirds at air shows.)

Wish I had a stack of bolts around to do a study of the actual variance. As it is I've only got 5, and that's not much of a sample.

Hate to think that a lug could be worn six thousandths.

[Multigunner]

Sounds like the earliest known instance of "close enough for Government work". [smilie=l:

'Course it was a military arm and had to function with less than optimal ammo, and they probably didn't care about case life, whereas as we reloaders do. Heck, I've read that the design life of WW2 airframes was only 400 hours. (Makes you think when you see those 65 year old warbirds at air shows.)

Wish I had a stack of bolts around to do a study of the actual variance. As it is I've only got 5, and that's not much of a sample.

Hate to think that a lug could be worn six thousandths.

I've seen wear and set back worse than that on military bolts.
Also some target shooters liked to lap a bolt till the safety lug made contact, giving up headspace in return for better lockup.

Krags were expected to have fairly tight headspace when new, but so long as the rifle functioned without burst cases they weren't likely to condemn a rifle over a few thou extra clearance.
Then you'd have to consider the use and abuse of decades after being sold off.

From what I'd read the over charged ammo could cause lug setback as often as cracked bolts, depending on the heat treatment.

[JTCoyoté]

I've seen wear and set back worse than that on military bolts.
Also some target shooters liked to lap a bolt till the safety lug made contact, giving up headspace in return for better lockup.

Krags were expected to have fairly tight headspace when new, but so long as the rifle functioned without burst cases they weren't likely to condemn a rifle over a few thou extra clearance.
Then you'd have to consider the use and abuse of decades after being sold off.

From what I'd read the over charged ammo could cause lug setback as often as cracked bolts, depending on the heat treatment.

This is exactly what happened in most cases, brittle bolts would crack, the softer ones would stretch a bit. In effect this would actually strengthen the action by a kind of rudimentary timing of the second lug... Ackley mused about this as well, during his many attempts to blow up US Krag actions.

The US Army had a unique way of cutting costs with the Krag... the barrels were set to head space using the front lug, leaving the rear lug about .006 to .010" loose as a safety lug just in case something happened up front. This was cheap to do and required little time.

The US Krag's Danish and Norwegian cousins however, had both lugs meticulously lapped and fitted to lock up together. This additional bit of gunsmith's artistry along with superior metallurgy made these Krags 47,000 CUP rifles. The US ordnance boy's were having none of this costly "artsy fartsy" stuff though... so the US version had to take a beating first, to gain a similar result.

I have three Krags, 2 US 30-40s and a 6.5x55mm Norge. One of the US units, a sporter, is fitted with an 03-A3 two land, 1~10" barrel. The receiver end has a slight shoulder that protrudes .010" toward the bolt compensating for the lapped front lug. This Krag has perfect 2nd lug lockup. In effect it feels a lot like the Norwegian when you close the bolt on a round...Solid. ~JT

[madsenshooter]

Some of the bolts must have been fitted. I have one 92/96 that has a full width guide rib that bears on the receiver, but it doesn't appear the front lug was lapped to make that happen. Other things indicate someone who knew what they were doing has worked on it over the years. The trigger has no overtravel and is the best of all my Krag rifles. It also has a 1902 sight with the smallest adjustment notches on the side of the leaf. Must've been someone's target rifle at one time, maybe a rifle built for one of the service teams or something along those lines.

[Multigunner]

Some of the bolts must have been fitted. I have one 92/96 that has a full width guide rib that bears on the receiver, but it doesn't appear the front lug was lapped to make that happen. Other things indicate someone who knew what they were doing has worked on it over the years. The trigger has no overtravel and is the best of all my Krag rifles. It also has a 1902 sight with the smallest adjustment notches on the side of the leaf. Must've been someone's target rifle at one time, maybe a rifle built for one of the service teams or something along those lines.
Could be.
Theres a book available as a free download at the Internet archive that has a section on chosing a Krag for competition shooting and a simple and reversible modification to take all the slack out of the trigger.

I'll look for a link.

[JTCoyoté]

Some of the bolts must have been fitted. I have one 92/96 that has a full width guide rib that bears on the receiver, but it doesn't appear the front lug was lapped to make that happen. Other things indicate someone who knew what they were doing has worked on it over the years. The trigger has no overtravel and is the best of all my Krag rifles. It also has a 1902 sight with the smallest adjustment notches on the side of the leaf. Must've been someone's target rifle at one time, maybe a rifle built for one of the service teams or something along those lines.

This is likely the "stretch" fitting I mentioned in my last post which would happen if a properly hardened Krag bolt and receiver was subjected to hot loads early on.

However, like Multigunner said, this would add the amount of bolt set back to the head space. This increase in head space was eliminated in my case when the new barrel was properly fitted. ~JT

[madsenshooter]

No extra headspace in this one either, course the barrel may have been fitted when redone to eliminate that. I'd say the barrel was pretty close to new when I got it, had a shorter throat than my worn ones. The trigger on this one is something I'm not going to mess with, easy as it is to do. I like the two stage military trigger, and any improvement would have me not passing the 4lb tests, it's close as is.

[Multigunner]

I've read that some rifles came from the factory with full bearing on both lugs, It was speculated that this was simply due to variations in machining of receivers, but it may have been due to slight setback in proof testing.
They don't seem to have made much effort to insure an exact clearance for the guide rib lug. So long as the front lug made full contact it was good to go.

When they offered free replacement bolts to civilian owners who'd had cracked bolts due to the over charged milsurp ammo the reprint of the message I read said that bolts did not require fitting, that all were machined to the same specifications.
Even if true that would not take into account setback of the receiver seats.

[JTCoyoté]

I've read that some rifles came from the factory with full bearing on both lugs, It was speculated that this was simply due to variations in machining of receivers, but it may have been due to slight setback in proof testing.
They don't seem to have made much effort to insure an exact clearance for the guide rib lug. So long as the front lug made full contact it was good to go.

When they offered free replacement bolts to civilian owners who'd had cracked bolts due to the over charged milsurp ammo the reprint of the message I read said that bolts did not require fitting, that all were machined to the same specifications.
Even if true that would not take into account setback of the receiver seats.

There is no doubt that virtually all US Krags with original barrels whether fitted with new bolts or were among those to have properly treated bolts from the onset, if they have reached a point close to dual lug lockup will have excessive head space to some degree. I have yet to see an original that didn't. My first hunting rifle as a young teen was just such a Krag.

My father instructed me that my rifle was to be used as a single shot that 1st year and that each round was to be seated all the way into the chamber with my thumb before I closed the bolt... and, he explained why... he also inspected my rifle every time I cleaned it to be sure that the chamber was always clean and wiped free of oil.

In every one of the half dozen shots I fired from the Krag that season the case stayed put... the primers however would back out to the bolt face about .015". By the next year, the Krag had received a properly head spaced '03 barrel. This was 54 years ago... my how time flies.

Whether by deepening the seat, or a short base shoulder protruding slightly into the front of the bolt channel, when setback one thread, chamber refreshed, and both lugs bearing.... all those head space issues and that relegation to very low pressure 'cause of one lug stigma, vanish from the US Krag like ghosts at dawn. ~JT

[madsenshooter]

Being at the armory during rebuild time, a fellow would have the ability to go back into the process. For instance, back before the step of machining the guide rib. He'd then have one he could fit to the rifle he was working on, perhaps building for some officer. I've read Whelen got his from the armory. The bolt body on mine is a 92 bolt however. If I found a later bolt with a full width guide rib, then maybe the scenario I put forth would be more plausible. Still, an armorer would have been able to go back in the process and get some boltbodies he could fit if he wanted to.

[JTCoyoté]

Townson Whelen spoke affectionately of his armory built 30-40, and there were no doubt many others like it crafted at the armory in the days just after the Krags were decommissioned. Still others were made in the shops of reputed smiths from the many barrels of sold as surplus actions, bolts, the bundles of surplus stocks and other parts that were available in the late teens, 20s and 30s... in addition to the complete surplus rifles themselves, available well until the late 1960s.

I think that your idea could best be affected today by having a new bolt body machined from modern steel and fitted to your rifle, since the days of finding a pristine unfitted original Krag bolt body is long past... --JT

[madsenshooter]

I knew a gun parts dealer had some new ones a couple years ago, haven't checked back with him since. New bolts were so bright that one fellow who bought one pickled his so that it would better match his rifle. Come to think of it, I have that bolt body somewhere. Guy was taking a gunsmith course and he lapped the locking lug so that the guide rib would bear. Once he discovered how much it altered headspace, he bought another new one. These bolts were softer than the receiver, his lapping took very little off the receiver, but quite a bit off the locking lug. Dealer that had them, Poppert's, but it's been a few years now. They were finished though, not an unfinished bolt one could fit.

[JTCoyoté]

I knew a gun parts dealer had some new ones a couple years ago, haven't checked back with him since. New bolts were so bright that one fellow who bought one pickled his so that it would better match his rifle. Come to think of it, I have that bolt body somewhere. Guy was taking a gunsmith course and he lapped the locking lug so that the guide rib would bear. Once he discovered how much it altered headspace, he bought another new one. These bolts were softer than the receiver, his lapping took very little off the receiver, but quite a bit off the locking lug. Dealer that had them, Poppert's, but it's been a few years now. They were finished though, not an unfinished bolt one could fit.

In their e-catalog, Poppert's doesn't even list the Krag anymore... Numrich, e-gunparts.com lists bolts for the Norwegian, and bolt sleeves for the Danish Krag... nothing for the US Krag.

If you have a new wide rib bolt just laying around there somewhere, I'd be locating that puppy... --JT

[madsenshooter]

It wasn't a wide rib, just a new regular bolt body. Only wide rib I have is the one in my parkerized 92/96. I hate to admit it, but have to, it has survived some loads that I probably shouldn't have shot, loads that may have ruined a rifle that didn't have both lugs bearing. http://www.poppertsgunparts.com/cgi-bin/webdata/webdata_gunparts.cgi?Model=U.S+KRAG&pagenum=1&cgifunction=Search

They only show stripped bolt bodies now, you'd have to call them about the new ones. Since I saw someone somewhere selling a bunch of new ones, maybe on ebay, they may all be gone now.

[Bret4207]

I once dropped a Krag bolt from about 3-4 feet onto a concrete garage floor. The bolt handle broke right at the root! Yikes!!! Needless to say, I replaced it.

In the mid 70's I dropped the bolt from a commercial rifle on our concrete floor and it broke clean off too. I forget if it was a Rem or Win, but it was brand new and Dad was not at all happy.

Real nice discussion here guys. I enjoyed it. I have yet to get my Krag out and actually fire it. Shame on me!

[Multigunner]

Being at the armory during rebuild time, a fellow would have the ability to go back into the process. For instance, back before the step of machining the guide rib. He'd then have one he could fit to the rifle he was working on, perhaps building for some officer. I've read Whelen got his from the armory. The bolt body on mine is a 92 bolt however. If I found a later bolt with a full width guide rib, then maybe the scenario I put forth would be more plausible. Still, an armorer would have been able to go back in the process and get some boltbodies he could fit if he wanted to.

Years ago I saw a photo spread on a custom presentation grade Krag built for a civilian businessman who had done a lot to help out the Army in some way.
It was a real beauty with a engraved plaque inlaid in a finely figured stock.
No mention was made of the lugs, but the rifle was apparently set up for match shooting.
Not sure but I think they found the rifle in the closet of the man's office many years after he passed away.