Some questions on powders and load data

[bangerjim]

OK..........there are a thousand types of poweders and a million receipes out there in the various manuals and lists.

I am wondering why some powders are listed for pistols AND shotshells loads (ie. Alliant American Select) and others are for 12ga only ( ie. Alliant e3).

I have in my stores Unique, Am Select, Bullseye, Winchester 231, and e3. I have done side-by-side burn tests (5cc scoop of each lit with a butane torch) and see virtutually no difference, other than the 231 is a slow lazy burning yellow flame. I know I am not a pyrotechnic-nitro-chemical engineer (although I AM a process instrumentation engineer!) but I feel we are missing out on something here by not using the more inexpensive and available (!) 12ga powders for pistol loads. I'm not talking competitive target shooting loads....just good ol' range plinking fun!

Since pistol powders like Unique and Bullseye are almost impossible to get these days, and 12ga powders are lining the shelves and are (relatively) cheeeep, why can't someone work up some load data cross-references for them! Sure would be nice.

Does anybody out there have any input to shine some light on this? Or know of a source of cross-ref data charts?

Good shootin! :lol:

[Rolling Stone]

When I got close to being out of Unique and Bullseye, I started asking questions as well. I have settled on Red Dot since I found an 8lb jug. I am happy with it. YMMV
Rolling Stone

[r1kk1]

i would email Alliant powder about load data. There is no load data for e3 concerning pistols.

take care

r1kk1

[Mk42gunner]

Not trying to be a smart alec, but you won't be able to see the differences in burn rate by your open burning trial.

Most of the shotgun powders can be used for pistol powders, if you can find the data. I think the Alliant e3 is a little new for much data to be freely available for non-intended (i.e. pistol) use. Best idea is as r1kk1 mentioned, contact the manufacturer for initial data.

Robert

[TNsailorman]

Very often a new powder such as e3 will be in the process of load developement by the manufacturer(Alliant in this case) without the results having been published in print for a time. I think that if you will drop them a line, they would share any info they had on hand. I share the opinion that an open burn test only proves that gunpowder burns, nnot explodes. Good lujck with your load developement. james

[bangerjim]

I'll try contacting Alliant. If I get anything useful back, I will share it here.

The burn test was just a rough comparison on burn rate and not intended to be any accurate load data test! And it is always fun to light a little pile of the stuff and watch it burn!!!!!! Would be fun to do the old pirate thing and light a 30 foot trail to a 30# keg! Think what that would be worth today....even if it is just BP.

[wv109323]

There is an overlap of shotgun and pistol powders. Popular in the .45ACP are 700-X, Clays , Solo 1000 , Red Dot and others.

[mdi]

Look in your reloading manual! Besides the powder section that describes powders and their uses, the data section for handgun cartridges have "shotgun powder" recommendations. IMR 700-X, PB, 7625, Hodgon Clays, Universal, HS-6, Winchester WST, WSF, Alliant Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, and Unique are all "dual purpose" powders...

[gandog56]

There is an overlap of shotgun and pistol powders. Popular in the .45ACP are 700-X, Clays , Solo 1000 , Red Dot and others.

Both use faster burn powders.

[jasent]

I use shot gun powders for pistol,44mag. red dot,blue dot, herco, clays(38sp/357mag),long shot

[MtGun44]

Open burn rate with your eyes as the instruments is not going to
tell you anything.

The burn is under pressure, which is unrelated to open burning and
fast vs slow is milliseconds difference, not something you can see.

Many shotgun powders are very appropriate burn rate for pistol apps.
Check out a few good loading manuals, esp from the powder makers.

Bill

[DrCaveman]

Ramshot competition. Great in 45 acp, pretty good in 38 spl. Hope to try in 9mm soon

[bangerjim]

Was staggering thru various sites VERY late last night and clipped this comment from a site I can't remember (on my iPad in the familyroom!)

"Alliant E3 is a shotgun powder and is listed between Bullseye and Red Dot for burn rate. I use it for 9mm with 4.5 grains E3, 125gr Berry RN DS, Reminton 1 1/2 primers. Have used it for two years in .357 mag, 4gr E3, 158gr Berry FP DS, Remington 1 1/2 primers. Worked up the loads from 3grs and settled on the 4.5gr for 9mm and 4gr for .357. Have loaded it as high as 5.5gr in the .357 and just started to get primer flattening and stopped there. Stopped at 4.5gr in the 9mm because the case was full to bottom of bullet seating depth. I do not like to compress powder, it is just one of my things!
If it works in 9mm, seems to reason that it would work just fine in 45 ACP. Used Red Dot load data for starting point and work up from there until I reached the sweet spot. The first two loaded rounds for the 9mm would not cycle,3gr E3, and that is just what I was looking for and cycling was consistant at 4gr of E3.
The E3 is a really clean burning powder and used it because it was all that was on the shelf when the ammo shortage was going on. Since it is a fast powder, I gave it a try in the .357 mag, and liked it right away.
The E3 flake is a bit smaller than Unique. Do not have any Red Dot, so I have not idea of similarity on flake size. I use an old RCBS Uniflo measure and have some cutting but do not consider it a problem."


I have a couple pounds of e3 that I am working loads on 45LC and 40 S&W now. Can't test till I go to the range soon. Living in town, I just cannot go out on my back porch and shoot like some of you can. (unless you're bablin' Joe!) ;-)

Will let you know. e3 is readily avaialble here and runs about $10 less than Unique, Bullseye, and Am Select.

[BD]

Shotguns and most handgun cartridges are both straight wall cases. Similar bore ratios, similar powder speeds.
BD

[garym1a2]

Red dot, Universal, WST, WSF are great in pistoels and shotguns.
My understanding is powders good for 12gage are good for 45acp and the powders for 20 gague are a little slower and are good for 9mm.

P.S., if you cannot find powder or lead goto walmart and buy bulk boxes of shotgun ammo. Cut them open and reclaim the lead and powder.

[bangerjim]

Cutting up 12ga WalFart shells is an expensive way to go. But if you really can't find poweder and lead, it is a source. A friend opened up over 50 of them and gave me the hulls with primers intact because he knew I have a 6 stage 12ga reloader. Shells are so cheap these days, I don't bother. But it is fun to shoot the primer-only hulls to wake up the neighbors! HA....ha! (don't ya just love bablin Joe? [smilie=1: