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View Full Version : Does anyone know what this guy uses to coat and color?



dbosman
05-15-2013, 10:23 PM
I'm afraid I won't live long enough for him to get the views he wants, before he shares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ7MQhs3hwg

runfiverun
05-16-2013, 01:14 AM
probably the stuff from bayou bullets they have green, and a new one that's gold.
the gold is supposed to be better.

leftiye
05-16-2013, 06:25 AM
Color? Who cares. Lube? Again, who cares if you can't get any to try out.

fcvan
05-16-2013, 07:40 AM
I think it's called Hi Tek coating. There are a few youtube videos on the process. I looked at that stuff and decided to go with powder coating. I haven't shot any of my boolits yet but I've read and watched videos of folks shooting their PCd boolits and that was convincing enough for me to buy a PC gun and some powder.

Being a cheapskate, I am using the Harbor Freight flat black powder as it is 1/3 the cost of other colors. HF only sells Red, White, Yellow and Flat Black. Other powder places sell the entire spectrum color wise. I'd like to get some copper colored powder just to make the boolits look like they are jacketed and probably some neon lime green. You never know if the zombie apocalypse will descend upon us :)

leadman
05-16-2013, 01:21 PM
In the other thread HI-Tek says this is not his product. I tried powder coating but the need to keep an electrical path to the boolits and space between them soured me on it.
I bought some of the Hi-Tek coating from Bayou Bullets and it is a much easier process to do. I haven't shot any yet but maybe tomorrow.

I melted a couple of coated reject boolits and the lead melted out of the coating and the empty coating shell came to the surface of the pot. A pretty tough coating 'cuz my pot was at 700 degrees.

KCSO
05-16-2013, 01:51 PM
I don't know but I'll bet it kills condors or eagles or spotted tree frogs and causes birth defects in morons.

xacex
05-16-2013, 02:00 PM
Epoxy paint with HBN powder for lubrication! He shared the recipe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0

lars1367
05-16-2013, 02:29 PM
Use the search function, type "powder coat" and see what comes up. Coat your boolits in your favorite team's colors!
-Corey

fcvan
05-16-2013, 02:35 PM
That was a rather informative video. I will have to try out that coating process and compare against my powder coating efforts. One thing is for sure you can get some really wild colors either way you go. As silly as it may sound many of the folks I've talked to really want to see me make some pink boolits.

dbosman
05-16-2013, 05:16 PM
Epoxy paint with HBN powder for lubrication! He shared the recipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0

Thank you xacex.

xacex
05-16-2013, 07:23 PM
Now the question is what is the equivalent paint in the USA? That has got to be hi temp epoxy paint. There is some hi temp epoxy paint listed on ebay for brake calipers. I wounder if that would do the trick. Says it is good for 950 deg. F.

Mipa 2k-ep appears to be a floor epoxy system.

Glock Junkie
05-16-2013, 07:59 PM
I'm very interested in this process! Figuring out the best components to use may be a pain. But the more of us that look into it, surely one of us will figure it out.

Thanx for the video link!

xacex
05-16-2013, 08:29 PM
http://www.klasskote.com/

This might work. Similar to what he is using but the volume is a 1:1.

Glock Junkie
05-16-2013, 08:46 PM
http://www.klasskote.com/

This might work. Similar to what he is using but the volume is a 1:1.

From reading about their product, I believe you my have found a product that will work. 1/2 pint of paint and 1/2 pint of catalyst for $30 its worth a try

xacex
05-17-2013, 06:03 PM
There is several reply's to questions about the type of epoxy paint he is using. He has listed the specific product number he is using, as well as an American equivalent. It looks like the klasscoat is a great candidate for this. He mentioned that it is not high temp epoxy paint just an industrial epoxy paint so epoxy floor base-coat should be the ticket. I wish I hadn't blown my reloading budget for the month on small rifle primers, and powder-coating supplies so I could order some of the product to start a batch of this.

Here is another manufacture: http://www.milspeccoating.com/MIL-DTL-24441-Formula-150-Type-III-and-Type-IV-p/24441-f150.htm#features-below
green mil spec coating.

dbosman
05-17-2013, 06:17 PM
$9.95 for .4 oz for those looking for Hexagonal Boron Nitride powder.

http://www.amazon.com/Hex-Boron-Nitride-Powder-0-4oz/dp/B004ZRKBH6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368828942&sr=8-1&keywords=hex+boron+nitride

I've found suppliers with larger lots, but the price seems to be about the same, so far.
Next question is how to keep the bullets from sticking to the perforated metal while they dry.

fcvan
05-19-2013, 12:11 AM
I would think you could wash the screen with Turtle zip wash and let dry or spray with rain-ex and lt dry. That should keep the boolits from sticking to the screen. What about wax paper?

HDS
05-20-2013, 06:12 AM
I can source the original components used in this recipe if I want to (would need to order a kg or 2lbs of each however), I have purchased HBN powder already. I wonder though if his selected product is the optimal one for this application however, would not something with higher temperature resistance be more suitable?

What I would like to get out of this are .223 bullets I can shoot at jacketed velocities.

swheeler
05-20-2013, 10:23 PM
I could care less what color they are, frosted silver is just fine by me.

HDS
05-22-2013, 01:25 AM
There is several reply's to questions about the type of epoxy paint he is using. He has listed the specific product number he is using, as well as an American equivalent. It looks like the klasscoat is a great candidate for this. He mentioned that it is not high temp epoxy paint just an industrial epoxy paint so epoxy floor base-coat should be the ticket. I wish I hadn't blown my reloading budget for the month on small rifle primers, and powder-coating supplies so I could order some of the product to start a batch of this.

Here is another manufacture: http://www.milspeccoating.com/MIL-DTL-24441-Formula-150-Type-III-and-Type-IV-p/24441-f150.htm#features-below
green mil spec coating.

By the way, are we sure a high temp paint would not work better? Just because he uses this solution it might not be the optimal one.

Skip62
05-22-2013, 08:34 AM
FYI, I've successfully done this and it works great. VERY little smoke, no more than FMJ, and the barrel is spotless. I used Klass Kote. Read Klass Kote's data sheet, it has different mixing instructions. For 250 - 175gr lymans, I used 1 teaspoon color to 1 teaspoon catalyst, and depending on temperature, I've varied the amount of reducer. It was warm(above 80°) the first day and I used 1 teaspoon reducer, yesterday it was cool yesterday (68°) and I used 1/4 teaspoon of reducer. Apparently this is something you have to watch, it only changes curing times, but I can be impatient...:lol: more reducer = longer curing.

thanks

xacex
05-22-2013, 12:14 PM
Good work Skip! Put up some photos of your finished product.

Glock Junkie
05-22-2013, 12:16 PM
Good to hear about someone that has used and liked the results.

Skip - did you use any of the HBN Powder?

TheDoctor
05-22-2013, 04:24 PM
Been looking around, finally found a place that has HBN for a decent price for the quantity. http://sandblastingabrasives.com/Bullet-Lube-Gun-Barrel-Bore-and-Bullet-Lube-Order-Page.html
If anyone is interested.........

Glock Junkie
05-22-2013, 04:57 PM
Been looking around, finally found a place that has HBN for a decent price for the quantity. http://sandblastingabrasives.com/Bullet-Lube-Gun-Barrel-Bore-and-Bullet-Lube-Order-Page.html
If anyone is interested.........

.25 lb for $34 or 1.20 lb for $66 - it would be cheaper to buy a lb and split it up. 1/2 lb or a 1/4 lb will go a long way. I might not ever use up a lb lol!

TheDoctor
05-22-2013, 05:26 PM
figured it was better than 10 bucks for .4 ounce!

dbosman
05-22-2013, 05:32 PM
.4 oz is supposed to do 8000 boolits.
So, .25 lbs/4oz @ $34.00 should be good for 80,000. That would be 4.25 cents a hundred. ;-)
1.2 lbs @ $66.00 should be good for 614,400. That seems to be 1.07 cents a hundred.
How much is alox and bees way again? <-- Rhetorical question made in jest.

TheDoctor
05-22-2013, 05:48 PM
That's 1.2 pounds, weight + tare. Probably 1 pound true.

Would do 320,000 if .4 oz will do 8000, comes out to roughly 2.06 cents per 100.

Skip62
05-22-2013, 07:49 PM
Here is a couple pics.

The one on the left was after 1 coat, the one right after coats. I'm hanging on to these for future reference....:D
71279

The batch sized and ready to load
71280

I had hBN tat I got from here (https://www.bulletcoatings.com/xcart/home.php?cat=249)
It comes with 2 scoops, I used 1 scoop of the little dipper to my 2 teaspoon mix.

Good luck

Glock Junkie
05-22-2013, 09:14 PM
Thanx for the info and the pics Skip!

xacex
05-22-2013, 10:50 PM
Wow! Those look as good as my powder coated boolits!

Skip62
05-23-2013, 08:11 AM
I don't know about that, they aren't smooth, slippery, but not smooth like car paint or anything. But they work. My buddy tried this yesterday, he had a slightly fouled barrel from 200 moly bullets, and he shot 70 rounds, said the barrel was cleaner when done. He was able to retrieve 3 bullets from the berm and he said they were smashed in the front, but the coating was completely intact on the back and in the lands and grooves.

Lights
05-25-2013, 10:54 PM
Klass Kote is right in my neighborhood and the local hobby shop sells it.:D I will have to give it a try. Thanks for the info ship62.

Skip62
05-25-2013, 11:48 PM
I don't know for sure that we're getting anything out of the hBN, I'm starting to think that's just a gimiky thing, just a hunch though

Lights
05-26-2013, 01:02 AM
Skip62, What mold are you using for them boolits?

xacex
05-26-2013, 01:19 AM
if HBN works so should graphite powder. Same principle. I have several pounds of that here that I use for a non-foul coating for boat bottoms. I wonder if it will work mixed into the P/C powder for that method.

Skip62
05-26-2013, 07:05 AM
if HBN works so should graphite powder. Same principle. I have several pounds of that here that I use for a non-foul coating for boat bottoms. I wonder if it will work mixed into the P/C powder for that method.

I'm really wondering if we get any benefit from the hBN anyway. You've used powder coat without it, it's all just plastic in the end. We are only sealing the bullet so the lead doesn't burn off in the barrel anyway. I don't think I'm going to bother with it. Actually as I'm typing this it occurs to me, if you wanted the bullets slippery, tumble lube the hBN on after the coat has cured in the vibratory tumbler with steel balls. Like the BR shooters do with j-words, that way it's on the outside, and not encapsulated. I guess I don't really need to with pistol bullets, wonder if it would have an application with rifle bullets?

I'm rambling, thanks for playing. :coffeecom

Skip62
05-26-2013, 07:09 AM
Skip62, What mold are you using for them boolits?

Lyman 401638, new to casting, but I like this profile in .40 a lot. I've seated from 1.120 - 1. 210, with no feed problems. My buddy shot off an impromptu rest at 15 yards, 1 hole. IPSC doesn't need any more accuracy than that, it can help, but it's not necessary...:)

prickett
06-01-2013, 11:43 AM
I don't know for sure that we're getting anything out of the hBN, I'm starting to think that's just a gimiky thing, just a hunch though

I wonder too. Using Piglet Coat, the finish is actually kind of rough. If they work (I'll find out tomorrow), then I suspect hBN is unnecessary for this coating.

Skip62
06-01-2013, 08:24 PM
Piglet Coat, I like it :bigsmyl2:

Newshooter
06-02-2013, 02:07 AM
I just bought beeswax, STP, and some tranny fluid then I find this. I'm just getting into casting and I can see already that the money I was going to try to save isn't going to happen... Lots of very smart people on this forum with some great Ideas to try. I'm one of those guys that just have to try everything even thou what I have works just fine if you know what I mean. Now to by some Epoxy and some hBN along with mixing up some red pan lube. :) I'm going to have to try everything.

prickett
06-02-2013, 03:56 PM
I wonder too. Using Piglet Coat, the finish is actually kind of rough. If they work (I'll find out tomorrow), then I suspect hBN is unnecessary for this coating.

Test complete. No leading. I'd be willing to declare hBN is not necessary.

dkf
06-02-2013, 09:19 PM
Has anyone tried Ceramic header paint? I use the 2000 deg ceramic header paint to paint the headers on my trucks. It coats well and takes a lot of heat.

Also I use this stuff for the seal coat on the lead fishing lures I make after painting and powder coating. http://csipaint.com/products/uv-fishing-lure-paint/uv-blast-clear-seal-coat.php Anyone try it for bullets. It is water based and can be thinned out with some water.

Just starting to get into cast bullets so I am not set up yet to try either. Both the above mentioned paint/coating dry fast. The header paint dry to the touch in a couple minutes with no heat.

Newshooter
06-03-2013, 01:11 AM
Well just ordered some Klass Kote epoxy. Going to give this a whirl. I think I am going to try it without the hBN first to try and save a buck or 2. This usually comes back to bit me but we'll see.

Skip62
06-03-2013, 08:30 AM
Also I use this stuff for the seal coat on the lead fishing lures I make after painting and powder coating. http://csipaint.com/products/uv-fishing-lure-paint/uv-blast-clear-seal-coat.php Anyone try it for bullets. It is water based and can be thinned out with some water.

Hmmm, interesting. Always worth a try.

Newshooter
06-04-2013, 02:54 PM
Klass Kote showed up today. I just need my stuff from Midway USA to come in now. Then let the fun (learning) begin.

Newshooter
06-08-2013, 03:24 PM
Has anyone else tried this method with any different epoxies? I am still waiting for my stuff from Midway to show up but I am kinda curious if anyone else is doing this method or mostly the piglet method?

dverna
06-09-2013, 10:14 AM
Interesting. But cost of lube is not important to me. Time and aggravation are my hot buttons. It seems like a PITA to separate a few hundred bullets at a time on a sheet to dry, then stack them again to cure and do a batch every 30 minutes and do that three times .... or am I missing something?

If you shoot a hundred a week or for rifle bullets it maybe worth the effort. Or the novelty effect. But what if you want to process 1-2000 at a time?

Skip62
06-09-2013, 10:38 AM
Interesting. But cost of lube is not important to me. Time and aggravation are my hot buttons. It seems like a PITA to separate a few hundred bullets at a time on a sheet to dry, then stack them again to cure and do a batch every 30 minutes and do that three times .... or am I missing something?

If you shoot a hundred a week or for rifle bullets it maybe worth the effort. Or the novelty effect. But what if you want to process 1-2000 at a time?

Yes, it is a bit of pita, but so are the other methods I've tried. Obviously a lubrisizer is easy, but I shoot lots of bullets in a short amount of time and really dislike smoke. I've got a cadence down now that it's not too bad, but I'm sure over time we'll figure out a 1 coat method. If you had a large electric smoker, with lots of shelves you could do 2000 at time. That's my plan. It's really not that bad separating them, jiggling the track gets most of that done.

I think if we find just the right PC, and method it will be much easier.


Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

prickett
06-09-2013, 10:58 AM
Interesting. But cost of lube is not important to me. Time and aggravation are my hot buttons. It seems like a PITA to separate a few hundred bullets at a time on a sheet to dry, then stack them again to cure and do a batch every 30 minutes and do that three times .... or am I missing something?

If you shoot a hundred a week or for rifle bullets it maybe worth the effort. Or the novelty effect. But what if you want to process 1-2000 at a time?

In my limited experience with Piglet Coat, I've found it to be faster to lube/size than using my RCBS Lubrasizer II. Elapsed time may be long, but actual labor time is not. Most of the time is spent waiting for the bullets to bake (i.e. you can be doing something else).

prickett
06-15-2013, 08:53 PM
Are any Americans (want to limit to paints available here in the states) here using a paint other than Klass Kote? If so, how are your results?

Skip62
06-15-2013, 10:24 PM
I could never anything in small quantities, and I was going to pay $80+ for something that didn't work. I even went to Sherman Williams to try to buy smaller, but they said gallon only.

Lights
07-08-2013, 01:20 PM
Skip62, Did you use gloss or satin part B catalyst? I picked up some Klass Kote at the local hobby shop this weekend. They only had satin part B catalyst. I just got done coating and backing around 100 boolits this morning. I will try them out tomorrow before I head into work.

Here is a finished boolit and round for my 9mm. I only coated them twice. They pushed right through the Lee sizer without scraping any of the coating off. Best thing is there is no sticky lube to deal with.
75599

Skip62
07-08-2013, 04:31 PM
I used gloss, but I don't think it matters. Yours look good.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

sly mantis
07-08-2013, 08:42 PM
has anyone had luck without using hbn?

Lights
07-08-2013, 08:51 PM
I will let you know tomorrow night. I did not use any.

Skip62
07-08-2013, 09:00 PM
has anyone had luck without using hbn?

It's not doing anything from what I can tell. I don't bother with it anymore.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

sly mantis
07-08-2013, 10:37 PM
let us know how it works out.
Would epoxy garage floor paint be the same as this stuff?

Lights
07-08-2013, 10:45 PM
I do not know. it might be if it is a 2 part epoxy. I think it would cost you more. Because you would need to buy it by the gallon. Klass Kote sells 1/2 pints. Part A and part B combined only cost $30 and is enough to do a ton of bullets. You do not need to buy Klass Kotes reducer. Lacquer thinner works just fine.

prickett
07-08-2013, 10:56 PM
You do not need to buy Klass Kotes reducer. Lacquer thinner works just fine.

Would acetone work?

Lights
07-08-2013, 11:31 PM
Would acetone work?

I do not know. Klass Kotes website said to use Lacquer thinner.

Lights
07-09-2013, 06:51 PM
I got to the range today and shot 30 rounds of Klass Kote'd boollits from my 9mm. 15 rounds loaded with 4.7gr of Unique and 15 rounds of 5.0gr of Unique. OAL for the cartridge was 1.060". The barrel only had powder residue left in the it. I did not use any hbn in the paint. I showed the barrel to a fellow USPSA member that happen to be their and he could not believe it. It works as good as Hi-Tek bullet coating if you ask me. No more sticky lubes for this pistol shooter.

OnceFired
07-09-2013, 07:50 PM
So net-net, what we're seeing here is a complete replacement for lube at a minimum, correct?

And, it has at least some properties of making the boolit behave as if jacketed, right? I think someone earlier in the thread asked about using this for 223 boolit jacket type purposes. Would that work?

Are there any downsides we haven't touched on? Chemicals under pressure and potentially on fire do tend to generate bad inhalants, etc. :)

What about when picking the lead back out of the range & re-smelting? As if that process needs to get any nastier. If it's holding the boolits together and preventing most of the lead mass splatter, that could be very helpful at increasing the volume of lead we can easily recycle.

OnceFired

sly mantis
07-11-2013, 11:22 PM
What do you think of these:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/PaintStains/FloorMasonry/PRD~0489730P/Armor+Coat+Epoxy+Garage+Floor+Coating%2C+Semi-Gloss+Grey.jsp?locale=en


http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp;jsessionid=Rf1NhWy16C7chcWP7TZ4 cklsXdhGdlXDKD4BqwpFzRvGP8Xvy45Z!-844762775?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443292497&bmUID=1373599021894

Im in canada so id be spending about $50 for 1/2pint of paint and reducer and for that price i could get 120oz of this stuff.
I hear you can dye it with testors model paint, although i dont know if that would affect for use as a bullet coating?

Lights
07-11-2013, 11:31 PM
I would try Armor Coat, it is a 2 part epoxy paint. I would just leave it gray.

Lights
07-11-2013, 11:34 PM
Oncefired, Ther coating does not burn. And as far as resmelting is not a problem. The lead leaves the epoxy hull will be on top of your melt waiting for you to skim it out.

prickett
07-12-2013, 07:42 PM
What do you think of these:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/PaintStains/FloorMasonry/PRD~0489730P/Armor+Coat+Epoxy+Garage+Floor+Coating%2C+Semi-Gloss+Grey.jsp?locale=en


http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp;jsessionid=Rf1NhWy16C7chcWP7TZ4 cklsXdhGdlXDKD4BqwpFzRvGP8Xvy45Z!-844762775?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443292497&bmUID=1373599021894

Im in canada so id be spending about $50 for 1/2pint of paint and reducer and for that price i could get 120oz of this stuff.
I hear you can dye it with testors model paint, although i dont know if that would affect for use as a bullet coating?

Sly,
I'm no expert on materials, but epoxy floor paint was mentioned as a valid source on some thread that I read. I'd say go for it.

KAS
07-16-2013, 10:57 PM
Late to the party on this one. I'm not in the States but I've tried this method with some success using De Beers 2 part auto paint. I used a home cast Lee 356-125-2R made from air cooled wheel weights. Boolits drop at .360, 132 grains before coating.

Tumbled in De Beers gloss black (2-1 paint to hardener, as per instructions on the can), air dried, and baked at 220F. I was baking them for about 20 min at first but soon noticed they stopped smelling/fuming after 12-15 minutes, which is what I use now. Total of three coats. No BhN, Molybdenum, graphite, or any dry lube was used on the first batch. I also didn't bother to stand them up on their base for baking. Just used the same mesh I had air dried them on for baking, just gave it a shake to make sure none were stuck together or to the mesh. Still came out perfectly even and smooth.

2 coats is probably sufficient, 3 coats is just purdy. First coat should barely colour the boolets, subsequent coats can be thicker.

All pills sized very easily through .356 Lee sizing die. None of the coating scraped or flaked off, just became really smooth/shiny. Final weight was 133.5 grains consistently.

Loaded up 100 round with 3.8 grains of Universal, CCI small pistol primer, at 1.110 COAL. Accuracy was superb out of a standard Glock 17 with factory barrel. Didn't chrono. All rounds were right at point of aim with no smoke or funny smell to speak of.

A quick check of the barrel after 50 rounds showed a tiny smudge of lead in one of grooves near the muzzle. I pulled a loaded round and found the even though I had zero crimp (outside diameter was equal to boolit size + 2x case wall thickness) there was a ring around where the case mouth contacted the boolit. This ring went right down to bare lead in places. I pulled a second round which appeared to be in perfect condition.

As I wanted my testing to be consistent, I pulled the rest of the round and started again. Before reloading the second time I de-burred the inside of the case mouth. Several pulled rounds confirmed the coating was now completely intact. The new round performed very, very well. After running a clean, dry patch once through the bore, it was squeaky clean after 50 rounds. No lead. Success!

Never being one to leave well enough alone, I added some graphite powder to the mix, much more than shown in the video. I could tell the difference between these and the first batch, but it certainly didn't cause any problems. Only fired another 50.

On the third experiment, I decided to dust the boolits with graphite after their final tumble white they were still tacky (before final curing). They looked awesome with a black base coat and silvery gray outer film. I was sure I was onto a winner. I loaded up 300 round using my usual recipe.

The next weekend I shot a small local match, going through about 150 rounds. When I got home and pulled out the barrel, I was greeted with massive lead streak from chamber to muzzle! I thought "surely this is just residue from the paint or graphite?" Nope. Could get the stuff out. After getting a brass scourer down the bore I could clearly see little lead shavings/particles on the table.

I still have no idea what has gone wrong. I pulled some of the remaining rounds and they are all still well coated. Is the graphite interfering somehow? The boolits with the graphite on the outside don't feel as slick as the plain ones.

Maybe something is happening between 50 and 150 rounds that is causing the leading? My first and second tests only went up to 50.

I now plan to shoot the remaining 150 rounds this weekend and check the barrel after every stage. If I get leading from the get go, then the graphite is causing the problem. If the first 50 are clean, but I start to get lead from then on, then there is something else going on.

On a side not, I checked the comments on the YouTube video and Mr. Wiederlader states that the paint he is using is often applied to concrete floors.

Newshooter
07-17-2013, 02:15 PM
Well here is what I ended up with. This the my first time casting pistol rounds and using klass kote. They turned out pretty good and they fired through my XDM just fine. I have only done fired 16 rounds just to do a test on leading and making sure my pistol would cycle. I have not done and accuracy test yet but that will be next. I put 2 coats on and I think that will be just fine. I did find that I could scratch off the coating if I tried hard. I also sized the bullets before I coated them and again after not sure why I decided to do that just did. I baked each coat for 25 minutes at 225°F. I thought I would put them on aluminum foil to save the cookie sheet but that was a bad idea. They stuck to the foil.

bstone5
07-17-2013, 04:13 PM
NewShooter

Try This Foil

KAS
07-21-2013, 01:25 AM
Got back from the range yesterday after putting 50+ rounds through the Glock 17. Again, these were triple coated in epoxy paint and lubed with fine graphite. An inspection of the barrel showed a huge amount of leading (came out is slivers).

I wonder if the final step of adding a little paste wax to the warm bullets would make a difference? I haven't done this on any of mine so far.

7670676707

First picture is a before and after coating. Note: the coated bullet is pulled from a loaded round with coating intact and no change in diameter.

Second one was fired into water and recovered. Coating intact.

Not sure why I'm still getting leading. Any thoughts?

Skip62
07-21-2013, 09:02 PM
KAS, that second picture is a FIRED round? I don't see where it's broken through at all, how could it lead? Mine cuts the through on the leading edge, and sometimes I have particles of lead, but not leading as in something you could see in the barrel without patching it.

KAS
07-22-2013, 12:21 AM
KAS, that second picture is a FIRED round? I don't see where it's broken through at all, how could it lead? Mine cuts the through on the leading edge, and sometimes I have particles of lead, but not leading as in something you could see in the barrel without patching it.

Affirm Skip, fired into a drum of water. You can see a little flat spot and a "fin" at the rear where the rifling has stretched it out. You're right, it hasn't broken through at all (on this one).

I've used commercially coated (Hi-Tek) bullets that cut through the coating like your's, yet I get no leading with them.

Only thing I can think of is that there is some inconsistency between batches of bullets. Maybe some are cutting through or flaking off while others are completely intact like the second picture?

I suppose I'll just have to keep firing a bunch of them into water and see if this is the case. Definitely worth persevering with this if they can all perform like bullet in the second picture.

Forgot to mention, De Beers/Valspar auto paint is freely available in the US. After buying the paint and hardener I thought it was kind of steep price wise. After coating a few hundred rounds, I don't think I'll ever finish the can.

Skip62
07-22-2013, 01:00 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head, inconsistent. If it doesn't break the skin to expose lead, it can't lead. Have fun shouting in to the barrel

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quasi
07-23-2013, 02:03 AM
I wonder what happens when you try to melt these boolits down after berm mining/ recovery?

Lights
07-23-2013, 03:07 AM
I wonder what happens when you try to melt these boolits down after berm mining/ recovery?

The lead melts and the epoxy shell will be floating on top of the lead.

Skip62
07-23-2013, 08:49 AM
The lead melts and the epoxy shell will be floating on top of the lead.

Yup, I've screwed up batches and smelled them back down, just like Lights said the shell floats on top

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Maximumbob54
07-23-2013, 12:55 PM
Scrolling through the Klass Kote webpages I don't see where it says you need to bake the finish to cure it. It says it requires and induction time and to add additional coats within 4 to 8 hours for chemical bond and then they are able to be handled after four hours but won't be fully cured until 4 to 7 days. Does the oven cooking just speed all this up?

What I'm reading:

http://www.klasskote.com/faq#Q5

Skip62
07-23-2013, 01:56 PM
Scrolling through the Klass Kote webpages I don't see where it says you need to bake the finish to cure it. It says it requires and induction time and to add additional coats within 4 to 8 hours for chemical bond and then they are able to be handled after four hours but won't be fully cured until 4 to 7 days. Does the oven cooking just speed all this up?

What I'm reading:

http://www.klasskote.com/faq#Q5

Yup, just dries it enough to be able to add a second coat sooner.

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popper
07-23-2013, 02:39 PM
KAS - I think you ran into the same problem as I did, using powder coated & WDd. Hard alloy expanded the case, which then snapped back in the lube groove, shaved all the coating from the front band. Couldn't tell the good from the bad. So far just happens in 40, not 30-30 or 308. I anneal those cases and they ar WDd. Only solution I see is to bell the mouth more.

L1A1Rocker
07-23-2013, 04:21 PM
I've missed this thread. Ya'll now have my attention.

quasi
07-23-2013, 06:47 PM
good to know boolits can be resmelted.

Skip62
07-24-2013, 08:58 AM
good to know boolits can be resmelted.

Honestly that's one of the things I love about casting, very little waste. If I screw up, melt it back down and start again. I wish all my hobbies over the years were this forgiving.

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shadowcaster
07-25-2013, 11:36 PM
I find all this to be very intriguing... Has anyone tried using this coating on rifle boolits and if so, any success?

Shad

Maximumbob54
07-26-2013, 07:43 AM
I posted this pic in another thread but I will add it here as well:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130725_172543_758_zps4b835284.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130725_172543_758_zps4b835284.jpg.html)

This is the initial coating of Klass Kote. These bullets have two coats now and I will add one last coat this afternoon. I plan to divide each batch in half and try half with a light dusting of fine graphite and the other half without. The 8mm 205gr bullets in the top left are standing on end but there is only the slightest flat from the ones laying on the sides that I assume sizing will fix. Thin coats have not had any paint running. The lower left is 175gr 8mm, top right is 55gr .224, and bottom right is 200gr SWC .452 but they will all be sized after a week of final cure to give the epoxy time to fully cure. So far the waiting has been the worst part as this has all been very easy.

Maximumbob54
08-01-2013, 09:47 AM
After going back and reviewing the video yet again I thought I would try graphite instead of HBN in a batch. But I decided to dust them instead of mixing it in the paint. I then ran them through the sizing die. The first half went through normal with the usual amount of pressure. Then I got to the graphite dusted batch. Oh my. I was ripping the press off the bench trying to get them through. They still mic at .325" (8mm Mauser) just like the others and measured with and without they drop from the mold at .329" and were .330" ~ .331" with the coating and with the dusted coating. So it's not like it adds anything to the diameter. But I have to assume if they go through the barrel the same as they did the die then I'm going to have a pressure spike. What gives?

KAS
08-09-2013, 08:23 PM
I did the exact same thing (sprinkling graphite) with my 9mm's and got horrible leading. I'm now going to test some with no powdered lube and some past wax as a final step. Should be done testing this weekend.

BossHoss
08-11-2013, 10:18 AM
Subscribed.

Graphite sprinkled on is a friction modifier, in a bad way on coating it seems, just from reading this.

I am going to try this for sure.

hickfu
08-17-2013, 02:52 PM
This has been a very interesting and informative thread.... I will have to try this.


Doc

Maximumbob54
08-17-2013, 03:04 PM
Trying a second coat right now:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130817_145923_551_zpsea3c1a4f.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20130817_145923_551_zpsea3c1a4f.jpg.html)

I air dry them first and it seems to help with them not sticking to each other when baking.

sly mantis
09-06-2013, 10:39 AM
Finally got to shoot some of my bullets coated with the epoxy garage floor paint. 3 coats, baked at 100C for 20min for each coat. Load is 124gr from a lee mold loaded at 4.4gr of hp38. I was getting bad leading with this load when coating with alox 45-45-10. (got very little leading at 4.1gr of hp38 with the alox). Shot about 60 rounds last night at an ipsc club night. Accuracy seemed good and got no leading. looks like it might have left some faint grey paint streaks on the barrel but will need to shoot more to see if this is actually an issue. Overall I'm happy, cant wait to test more. Going to see if I can add colour to the paint somehow.