What was ejecting from my shotgun?

[Ragnarok]

So I decided to shoot my ancient Remington 'Sportsman 58' 12ga this afternoon. I chose some shells I had reloaded long ago...2 3/4" magnum loads with #4 lead shot(my waterfowl load back in the days of lead shot). Gun worked great...it's shot this load before...but these reloaded shells were sometimes spitting crud in my face..leaving funky debris in the action!!

I promptly stopped shooting at the first burst of 'debris in face' and checked the emptys on the ground...all basewads intact and cases looked perfect and reloadable again. Gun was normal..debris in barrel appeared to be just normal stuff(not the funky stuff in the action)...loads were shooting great and I was just blasting some large chunks of cardboard to look at patterns and shoot the ancient gun and burn some rather old reloaded lead duck-shells.

I quit shooting when the Rem 58 didn't fire once..bolt jammed-up against a smashed hunk of something soft and held the gun enough out of battery it wouldn't drop the hammer!!?

I gathered all the emptys and inspected...all appeared to be perfectly intact inside and out. The lump of whatever was smashed yet wiped right off the back of the breech and the fresh chambered/manually ejected shell. Just about has to be pieces of wad..or base-wad?? At home I stripped the gun and inspected to see if anything identifiable was left inside...and not really..a few flakes of soft stuff that really does not resemble any cork wad I've seen...and I don't think it's stuff off the shell's base wads

Just what do you think the crud is that's coming from these shells??

[Hogtamer]

Got to be from paper/cork base wad...Remington or federal hulls maybe from the 70's?

[Ragnarok]

Normal lube...clean gun before shooting. These were Remington hulls...probably from the early 1980's.

Only thing I can figure is that the base wad was giving-up a concentric ring of debris that was flying out of the ejecting shell in chunks and not out the barrel...like the shot crushed-up parts of the base wad.

I don't recall the exact load/wad/cup configuration...however these were shell loads I had made many of and shot many of back before steel shot became the rule for waterfowling.

The bits of debris big enough to examine was soft...did appear 'corky'. The chunk that stopped the gun was really soft and wiped out of the breech with a swipe of the finger. Can the base wads of a loaded shell deteriorate over time??

[thekidd76]

Have you cut open one of the old shells to see if you can identify the "gunk" from what you find there? That may help pinpoint the culprit.

[Hogtamer]

Yes, the old Remington hulls is the culprit....but you really ought to just trde me that old '58 an you won't have to worry about it anymore!

[Ragnarok]

No..but I was planning on slicing a shell open and comparing base wads with one of the spent shells...just have not got there yet.

Comparing shell interiors amongst the fired hulls and they all appeared to be fine. The shells all fired and functioned well except the occasional ejecting debris.

[Ragnarok]

Yes, the old Remington hulls is the culprit....but you really ought to just trde me that old '58 an you won't have to worry about it anymore!

Yeh..these seem to be good shotguns.

I had fired 25 rounds of this same basic shell load through this shotgun a month or so back...but the shells/hulls were 'Mohawk'...which were also Remington made and varied from the shells I burned yesterday only by having a brass base.

[Ragnarok]

Yeh...It was the base wad...I cut-off a couple shells each of 'Mohawk'/Remington hulls and Remington hulls and inspected internals.

These were apparently some of my better loads of the day...had some nice cushioned shot-cups and no cork over-powder wad...and the steel-based Remington's base wad was soft and is obviously what was ending up as debris in my shotgun. The brass-based 'Mohawks' are identical cases pretty much...and had similiar/same base wads. However these off-brand Remington's base wads seemed tougher. I could probe and dig the wad with my pocketknife in these shells...but the base wads didn't dig like peanut-butter. The base wad in the steel based Remington hulls was much-much softer!!

I have not loaded shot-shells in maybe 15 years(I made a whole bunch back then)...I think I need more education in base wads before I resume production!

So were the old black plastic Remington hulls notorius for this or what's the story??....I really used to like these hulls for loading because I could make shells that were just perfect and perfectly crimped too.

[dverna]

The new Remington hulls are all one piece so the base wad is not going to be a problem. AA and Federal Gold Medal base wads are also plastic and will not deteriorate. The Federal Top Gun and Estate "promo" shells have a fiber base wad so I only use them once and pitch them. The Remington Gun Club hull is plastic and reloads like the STS/

Don Verna