any one using the old lyman 310 tools

[dukenukum]

My dad left me all of his when he passed away so it is my duty to warn everyone reloading with these tools is addictive and will make you want shoot more so you can reload more so you can shoot more to reload more also got all the old lyman boolit molds and handles and presses .:castmine: :cbpour:

[twotoescharlie]

got one in 45-70 that I use every once in awhile.


TTC

[Bob S]

My all-time favorite tool for loading cast bullets!

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[KCSO]

I have the unfortunate Ideal disease and have #1 through the aluminum handled 310. I have one each of the tru line models, an all american and a spar t. I am currently loading my 30-40 and 30 remington hunting loads on the #10 and have the Tru line set up so my grandkids can decap 38's and 45's. I also use a #5 powder measure and a 1st model sizer luber. Most all of this stuff came from yard sales and such as most folks arn't interested in fooling with the slow stuff. I started reloading with a tong tool and a trapdoor in 1966 and I still have the cigar box of stuff i got then. Original FA 86 cases and a unigue pan lube cookie cutter.

[scrapcan]

They are very addicting. This includes the truline jr presses. I don't have nearly enough but more than some think I need.

[hollow-point]

in the last 3 months i have obtined lyman 310 tools in 45lc,357 mag ,250-3000,308,243,@30-30. yet to use any but nice to own!

[chunkum]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/PhilHarris/45-70IdealToolnDie2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/PhilHarris/45-70IdealToolnDie.jpg
Just have this one for .45-70. It works fine unless you need to size the brass.
c.

[floodgate]

Chunkum:

That's a nice old No. 6 tool with the single-adjustable chamber; you're lucky to have the decapping/crimp flaring plug, as these are usually long since lost. The alignment peg and sprue pivot set screw indicates it was made in or after 1902. I can't make out the maker's stamp; if it says "Marlin" it is 1910-1915; if just "Ideal/New Haven", 1902 - 1910. If it says "Ideal, Middlefield, it was made by Lyman after 1925. What is the bullet cherry number stamped on the seating die? Just thought you might like to pin down its dates (and I guess I'm showing off - mebbe a little).

floodgate

[chunkum]

floodgate,
I'd love to know that information. I had pictures of the markings on photobucket but, for some reason, my pictures there seem to darken over time. OK. Nearly as I can make out it's 45 GOV 405 and Ideal New Haven
c.

[Black Prince]

WOW!! Neat old tool Chunkum. I have a 310. Got it to just use to decap my brass at the range because I am shooting black powder loads and wanted to get my cases in some soapy water quick so they wouldn't tarnish. Then one day I wanted to try some loads at the range and used the tool to load some cases. I was hooked! Since I shoot the cases in the same chamber, I don't resize the brass. Works like a charm. I've got all the usual tools on my loading bench at home including a Dillion but for the 40-65 and 45-70, all I need is the 310 tool.

[floodgate]

chunkum:

Thanks. That makes it 1902 - 1910. There should be two tiny sets of numbers stamped on the adjustable bullet seating insert; can you read them off for me?

floodgate

[floodgate]

chunkukm:

OK, that places it in the period 1902 - 1910. There should be two sets of small numbers stamped into the adjustable seat-crimp plug. Can you read them off for us?

Black Prince (Yer STILL a Prince in my book):

That's EXACTLY how they were intended to be used, and WERE used in that era. Many Schuetzen shooters would run an entire match using one case and a tong tool.

floodgate

[junkbug]

I have one of the Aluminum ones in 30-06 and like it alot. One day I plan to get one in 38-55.

Just as an aside, does anyone fabricate a push thru sizing die that can be used in the modern version of this tool?


Sean

[floodgate]

Junkbug:

Yes, Lyman used to make these for the 310 tool, and there are lots of them around - there were a dozen or so on eBay from one seller a couple of weeks ago, and there has been some discussion of adapting these for use in a bench press here over the past week or so. You can get these in most of the useful sizes from Randy Davis at <The310Shop@aol.com> at a resonable price. These were originally made to size base-first, so the plungers were cut to fit specific boolits, but there would be no problem filling the nose cavities with epoxy and filing them flush, to size nose-first. Of course, you have to hand- or pan-lube the boolits, or use Lee Liquid Alox or Johnson's Paste Wax, also discussed here in detail.

floodgate

[Bent Ramrod]

I like to use the old tools, sometimes. If the time and leisure is available, it really evokes the Good Old Days of handloading. This is the Ideal No. 5 Armory tool, made almost exclusively for the .45-70, although a few other large calibers are encountered infrequently. It came as a set with the separate boolit mould.

I use this set, especially when I'm testing out some messy blackpowder lube formulation. The seating chamber is more easily cleaned out (and seems less affected by built-up lube) than a modern seating die. The tool necksizes very well in the outboard muzzle resizer (seems to have better leverage than the ones with the chamber inside the hinge arrangement), and seats and slightly crimps the boolit at just the right depth. Also works on the 457122 HP.

Primer seating is kind of a three-handed job until you get the knack of balancing/starting the primer into the pocket and gently bringing closed the handles.

I used to cast all my 457124 boolits from the mould, but it's so small it doesn't hold the heat well, so I mostly went to a standard size block. I've shoved a few through the sizing hole in the handle, but the punch tends to dimple the base if the lead is soft, and it treats the boolit rather brutally from the modern standpoint. Still, the tool is very versatile for its size and weight and the design is surprisingly ergonomic.

Haven't had a chance to try the Berdan decapping arrangement. Probably just as well that cartridge nostalgia doesn't go to Berdan primers and other such historic curiosities. This tool came without the decapping/expanding stem, or the charge cup. One of my minor hobbies is trying to find such things and reunite them with their respective tools.

[floodgate]

Dave:

Damn, but that's a lovely early No. 5 set; I've been looking for one for a long time but no soap, yet. Did you know that the earliest No. 3's and 4's were made in a similar configuration? There're cuts showing these in an early Marlin catalog (1888, pp 36-37; see the Cornellpubs reprint), from before the first (1891) Ideal Handbook, which shows the "regular" versions.

Doug

[SwedeNelson]

Started to use a 310 tool in a high school class in the early 70's.
Can you imagine teaching a reloading class in school!

Have 3 or 4 handles and a box full of dies.

Can't even picture life with out them.

Swede Nelson

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks, Doug. My one reprint Marlin catalog is at least 1898, if not newer, and has the usual Ideal tools in it. I've never seen a No 3 sized version of the Armory tool, although I have seen one other No 5. They are pretty uncommon, all right.

At one time, I had hopes of getting one of each Number, but the No 2 I've only seen once or twice, at high prices, and I don't think I've ever knowingly laid eyes on a No 7. I've seen several No 8's and each one has been subject to the tender ministrations of the people who can't resist drilling out mould cavities.

Before Chamberlain's book came out, it was possible to accumulate a fairly impressive quantity of such equipment at not great expense. But having the knowledge is valuable, also, and the occasional unappreciated treasure still shows up from time to time.

I find I also accumulate the later malleable-iron No. 3/No. 10 tools which were either made into "Large" and "Small" Number 310 tool handles, or were set up for one caliber (no insert) and threaded for 310 dies. Instead of nickel plate, it seems they were hot-blued, as they have the purple color that cast iron gets from that process. Lyman must have had a bunch of leftovers to use up before they went to the anodized aluminum handles for the 310 tool. To me, at least, the iron ones have more "gravitas," although the aluminum ones are lighter and easier to use. I use a number of them for boolit seating even though I may use regular press dies for sizing, decapping and expanding.

The tools are also very handy to throw in the shooting box for a trip to the range. A few shells can be re/de capped, loaded from a powder measure and the boolit seated in the shell or breech seated with a dowel. Also, a bunch of cases can be prepped while sitting at the kitchen table, or watching TV. The tong tools are often badly underappreciated; I know people who've been reloading with presses for a long time who've never even heard of them or how they function.

I could just see a handloading class in High School out here in California. The "Facilitator" would probably get about 10,000 hours of Sensitivity Training as punishment.

[johniv]

Started out with a 310 tool in 45acp, still got it. Also picked up dies for 357, 45 colt and 30-06. I like to mess around with them now and then, and I think the priming setup is better than some press mounted systems. I also have a boolit sizing die for the 45 and would like to get one for the 357. I'll have to try the above addy to see if he has one in that cal.
John

[chunkum]

chunkukm:
OK, that places it in the period 1902 - 1910. There should be two sets of small numbers stamped into the adjustable seat-crimp plug. Can you read them off for us?
floodgate,
I find not two sets of numbers but two numbers on that plug. One is an 8 and the preceding one (with the distal portion of the plug considered as up) is not so clear and could be a 4, a 5, or a 6. If you consider the proximal part (thread end) is upright, it might conceivably be a 9. So I'm left with a 4 8, a 5 8, or a 6 8, from one orientation and a 9 8 from the other. I'm fairly certain of the 8 but the other, obviously is pretty nebulous. I see no sign of any other numbers anywhere on the plug. Sorry, my wife and I both oggled it, magnified it, and put light from different angles but that was the best we could arrive at. I tend to lean toward the 6 one way or 9 the other, but really it's just not clear enough to be conclusive. Anyway, thanks for your interest and assistance.
chunkum

[hydraulic]

I keep buying the darned things at the gun shows, when I find them cheap, and now the regulars of my acquaintance bring them to me when they want to get rid of them. I load most of my '.06 with the 310, except for those in the M1, all my .222, .38-40, .45 Colt &.30-30. I can get tired of loading with a press, but I can spend the whole evening at the bench with 310 tools and wonder where the time went.

[floodgate]

chunkum:

Hmmm..."4" was the .22 Maynard, "5" the .22-15-60, "8" was the .25-21 Stevens, "9" the .25-25; "6" is unidentified, but would be a small caliber. "48" would be the .38-72 Winchester, "58" the .45-60 - but not with that bullet. "68" the 40-72, and "98" would be the .33 WCF. Also, "8" would be the bullet code for the old #3118 for the .32-20. The bullet looks like the #457125, which would be coded "125". None of these would work. The .45-70 was coded "89"; can you rearrange the numbers to read that way? Probably just one of those mysteries that plague Ideal tool collectors. Thanks anyhow for checking.

floodgate

[chunkum]

floodgate,
The mould is stamped 45-GOV-405 on the handle and if I look at the residual stamping on the seating plug, it could be read as an 89, so that woiuld confirm what you've written in your most recent post. The bullet is, I think, a 457124 and falls at 405 grs in pure lead and 373 grs in linotype. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge on these old moulds. Yep ....... an 89 it is.....
c.

[floodgate]

chunkum:

OK, you've got it. Of course, the bullet was the 405-gr. #457124 and not the 500-gr. ...125; I should have counted the grease grooves. That's a fine tool; wish I had one like it - but I'll make do with my aluminum-handled Lyman 310 in .45-70, bought new back around 1959.

floodgate

[hydraulic]

Floodgate: My #4 is marked .38-40. The Lyman handbook says that there are two different calibres of this persuasion; .38-40 Marlin and .38 WCF. Do I have the tool for the Marlin calibre or the Winchester? Which would be correct for my single action .38-40?

[floodgate]

hydraulic:

There were actually THREE .38-40's; the third was the Colt for the "Lightning" pump rifle and carbine, and you will sometimes find tools marked ".38 CMR" or ".38CLMR"*. (Same for the .44-40 M/.44WCF./.44 CLMR; the "M" stands for "magazine".) But relax; they are the SAME cartridge, with slightly different bullet profiles - Marlin liked larger meplats, and Colt liked somewhat blunter bullets, than Winchester; and the makers specified different twist rates (Ideal shows Colt: 1 in 30", Marlin & Winchester: 1in 36") - but any of these should work fine in your SAA. Being as it is the No. 4 tool, the seating chamber will be cut to seat and crimp the same bullet as cast by the tool's integral mould. If you cast from a different mould, there may be a slight difference in the amount of crimp, but that should not pose a problem, especially if you are shooting Black Powder.

Hope this answers your question.

floodgate

EDIT: PS - There was also a .38-40 Remington, but that was a TOTALLY different cartridge, and not used in handguns. F.

[hydraulic]

Floodgate:

Thanks. (And I thought I knew a lot about those old BP cartridges and loading tools! )