38 questions

[Thor's Daddy]

A few weeks ago this was my father's Python. Now it's mine. I think there were some conversations back home during the legislative panic in which my mother said something to the effect of, "If there's something you want to give him, you might want to do it sooner rather than later, because later you might not be able to."

So the little Colt made the trip with them when they came to visit us out on the prairie. I got a chance to let her run a bit Sunday after work...

70600

...and now I'm filled with a million questions. I know this path has been trod by many who came to this sport long, long before me, so much of what I'm asking will truly make me shine like the freshman shooter I am, but what the heck, here goes:

Dad's accuracy load for target work was 3gr of Bullseye over an unnamed wadcutter (I'm going to get in touch with him soon to find out what mold he used).

Is there a wadcutter mold (or weight) of choice?

Are there any wadcutter molds or designs that aren't worth a darn?

The Python is, of course, a .357, but it looks like my father ran a lot of .38 spec. through it (he gave me 125 of these wadcutter loads and about 250 empties- along with some .357 rounds). Is there any benefit to working up WC target loads with .357 brass?

Is there a .38 spec. brass that outshines all the rest? The brass I got is a mixed bag. Some is military, I think, some Remington, and I saw some labeled Herters, which I really dig for nostalgia's sake.

Is it worth buying a bunch of target ammo to get the double-crimp WC brass?

Is there a lube recipe of choice for this walking-speed work? My father's Lyman 450 came to me half-filled with what appears to be straight-up ALOX, but There might have been something else in there... beeswax perhaps?

I'm sure I can come up with more, but if you guys could answer even some of my questions, it would really help get me started in the right direction.

[Dale53]

I shoot the .38 Special in a revolver a good bit (mostly in a 6" S&W Model 686). I cast an H&G #50BB bullet (148 gr wadcutter) from an original four cavity mould. I load 3.0-3.5 grs of Bullseye in .38 Special cases. Years ago, when I shot PPC Competition, I had a chance to check out a good many .357's on the Ransom Rest. Most shot very well using .38 Special brass. However, there was the occasional revolver that responded with better accuracy using the longer .357 brass. A good revolver and load will consistently shoot under an inch at 25 yards using target loads. Bullet quality is extremely important if you are to obtain this level of accuracy.

I also have an original six cavity H&G mould for the double ended wadcutter (#251 at 148 grs). It shoots equally good as my #50 BB mould does.

I believe WC brass is a bit better but I shoot what was/is available and have no complaints. The gold standard for bullet lube is to lube only one groove with NRA Formula 50/50 Alox 2138F/Beeswax. However, Alox no longer offers that particular lube. I use Lars White Label lubes and they are at least equal to the NRA Formula. I prefer the Carnauba Red as it has a higher melting point and I find that an advantage in really warm weather (left in a hot car it doesn't melt and ruin the ammo). It does require heat to apply, however. Lars has several lubes that shoot equally well and do not require a heater for your lube/sizer:

http://www.lsstuff.com/

Good shooting (that Python is a FINE revolver and should shoot with anything ever on the market). You are a fortunate son, indeed!

Dale53

[rintinglen]

I've had similar luck to Dale 53. I shot a six inch nickel python for two seasons in PPC that loved 38 WC, a Cramer 16H sized .358, Javelina 50-50 lube, over 2.9 grains of Bullseye and I was more than good to go. The one I have now does not shoot as well as my old one did with 38 Specials, though I've yet to try it with .357 brass. Congratulations on your "new" gun.

[texassako]

My thoughts on the matter since I have been shooting a bunch of WCs lately in my 6" Security Six. I went with the mold with the most cavities I could afford, which was an older Lyman 358091 4 cavity. I almost went with Lee's 6 cavity mold, though. I don't bother with expensive .357 brass and use cheap .38 brass, but the cylinder will need the carbon rings scrubbed out from the shorter brass if you want to shoot magnum loads. I use whatever .38 brass is on hand and don't bother sorting. The WC brass is for the long, swaged 148gr HBWCs so it will not bulge the brass, and you don't need it. I just tumble lube my WCs with 45/45/10 and shoot as cast, no sizing, over a variety of powders(I like trying different loads). I will shoot a couple hundred in an outing, and, while I am not a very good handgun shooter, they will all fall in a group the size of my palm.

[fecmech]

Dale nailed it as far as bullets and loads are concerned. It is hard to beat the H&G #50, the Lyman 358495 is a close second IMO. Lube one lube groove only and the sweet spot for my K-38 was 3.1 of bullseye. Good luck

[Dale53]

fecmec;
Thanks for the kind words. I shot with our local police dept. (back in the day) when our local, small town (70,000 population) police dept. was full of SERIOUS shooters. One year they were National Police Champions. Our gun club had close relations with the powers that be and we actually ran their matches. Dept's from all over the area competed and we saw some real shooting. Our Chief was a Master Pistol shot and teamed up with my good friend, a Homicide Detective, and they were nearly unbeatable. At any rate, with all of that interest we worked hard to develop very high quality loads that were fully competitive with factory wadcutter ammo.

Remington and Western, in those days, had superb wadcutter ammo. In a GOOD revolver, they would approach 1/2" at 25 yards off the Ransom Rest. My reloads and my cast bullets didn't quite meet that standard but I often saw 5/8" groups at 25 yards. It is my understanding that present day wadcutter factory ammo will no longer shoot that well. That may be, but I am still loading and shooting my cast solid wadcutters that continue to maintain my standards:drinks:

Ed Harris (former NRA Technician and Ruger Development Engineer) has done extensive work with the .38 Special and has some good things to say on the Cast Bullet ***'n Forum. It would pay any interested in .38 Special Target loads to check it out.

FWIW
Dale53

[Bjornb]

Read the sticky "75,000 wad cutters in a model 27" in this very sub-forum. It's very informative. I shoot Lee 148 WC's over 3 grs. of BE in my identical Python, all loaded in .357 brass.

[Shooternz]

I have shot thousands of WC's through my 586 mould I am using is the RCBS 148gr lubed with Carnauba Red in 2 grooves loaded in .357 cases I find I get better accuracy than with .38 cases,
powders I have used are Bullseye Reddot N320 231 and at present Clay's,
When I bought the gun in 1982 I got 400 Federal .357 cases I still have 70 left they are slowly dying of split necks I only load WC loads in them so what ever you pay for cases you get your monies worth out of them with WC loads, I have lost count of the number of rounds fired it must be
over 60,000 the pistol just shoots better, it has been to the gunsmith to be tightened up and tuned
once back in 1990, shoot IPSC with it now the cases don't last as long with major power factor loads been using Remington Winchester Norma and Starline .357 cases, my pick would be Starline
for my next purchase of brass have had a better run with it than the other brands,
WC shooting is done now with a S&W M14 same mould and powders,
Robert.

[Thor's Daddy]

I wish I could have replied to this sooner, but I'm just wrapping up a 14-hour workday and thought I'd pop in before heading home for a few hours of shuteye.

Thanks to all of you for your insight and wisdom. Dale, to you especially, thank you. You've given me a huge head start in getting this gun to shoot (or rather keeping it that way). As you can see from the image I posted I certainly need a goodly portion of quality time on the firing line, but I'll get there.

To me this gun is so many things, but most of all it seems an invitation to a new discipline. And I am eager to head down this path.

best,
Rod

[Bzcraig]

I can't help you a lick on loads and boolits but that is a beautiful gift. Had a 4" back in the day and seriously wished I still did! That was the finest shooting revolver I ever owned.

[KCSO]

Every gun is different and YOUR load on't be somone elses favorite but. Either HP 38 or Bullseye and for MY gun 2.8 of Bullseye over a 148 grain doube ended wadcutter seated flush with the case mouth. This load in my K38 will shot into 2 1/2" from a solid rest fron a bench at 50 yards. Some prefer the hollow base wadcutter but I didn't like moulding them so I went with more work and loaded up the double ended ones. don't remember the Lyman mould # as I have been using it for many years. When we loaded for the PD we used gang moulds from H and G and kept 2 10 hole moulds going a one time from a 50 pound pot. For those of us serious into PPC at the time we also had an accuracy load with a 158 grain semi wad cutter for the reloads as they went in faster. These were used for the close range timed reloads to save a second or two for shooting. My load was a Lyman 158 grain bullet over a charge of unique that I would have to look up. That load cut into and inch at 20 yards.

[357mags]

Looks like you're doing alright with what you have right now. Stick with what works! Have Fun and welcome to the Python Fraternity!

[H.Callahan]

Superb gun. I shot a ton (probably literally) of 35863 double ended waddcutters over 2.8gr of BE back in the '70s when I was shooting competition all the time. Actually shot a perfect score with that gun and that load. Still have the gun (and the mold). The gun is a slight bit worse for wear cosmetically, as it did triple duty as my on-duty, off-duty and competition gun. Still shoots great, though.

[smkummer]

One heck of a nice passed down gift! And welcome to the Colt Python community. All of the above advise is great. Shooting mid range wadcutters out of that gun is very mild indeed. Just remember to be careful about double charges with bullseye. One can work on precision double action shooting with the mild loads. A bunch of us shoot Plus P 38 special (158 SWC and about 900 FPS) for our all purpose range load that includes 100 yard 16" plate shooting as well. Clean the forcing cone of your barrel after shooting many 38 special lead bullets before shooting full power jacketed .357 ammo. And its true about really cleaning the chambers well before trying to chamber a .357 round after shooting much 38 special lead ammo.

[jdgabbard]

Dale nailed it as far as bullets and loads are concerned. It is hard to beat the H&G #50, the Lyman 358495 is a close second IMO. Lube one lube groove only and the sweet spot for my K-38 was 3.1 of bullseye. Good luck

This is my go-to load for target work. And btw, I'm not a Colt my when it comes to my Wheelies... But I'll tell you this. That is one nice looking pistola, and I'd be happy to own one like it. Congratulations on your newest member of the Safe-Family.

[Thor's Daddy]

One heck of a nice passed down gift!

It is the gift that keeps on giving! Just today my father emailed to let me know he'll be sending a trio of Lyman boolit molds (358156, 358091 and 358315) and a set of Lyman handles. I went down to the hardware store this morning and picked up a pound of Bullseye and some primers. Now all I need it to carve out some time at the casting pot and load bench.

[smkummer]

You say you live on the great plains? Gophers are no match for a 38 wadcutter! We used to drive a station wagon in the cow pasture with the windows rolled down and 22 firearms out the window. On close shots I would use a 22 revolver and on one occasion a .357 Colt. While hitting them with a .357 was fun, it was not fun for all the rest in the vehicle due to the blast. Of course a mild wadcutter load would make much less blast.