9X56 Mannlicher - anyone?

[PB234]

Considering a 1905 Mannlicher and wondering if anyone has experience with the 9X56 MS cartridge. Availability of brass, cast boolits, loads, etc. Better to let this one go and just stay with something easier and more current? I just like the old odd ones and Manlichers in particular.

[I'll Make Mine]

If you can get loaded ammo or brass (or brass you can convert) there's no reason to "stay with something easier and more current" -- once you're set up to load and find a combination of bullet, powder load, etc. that the rifle likes, it'll be no more difficult than loading .308, but you won't see another rifle just like yours every other station at the range...

[No_1]

Don't be afraid, just do it. Dad just picked up a Remington 14 1/2 in 30 Remington. Imagine getting ammo for that. It is a nice rifle and only cost $200 because ammo is not available. Brass is not easily formed from from other brass without a lathe so factory brass is the only way to go.

Is there any brass out there for available for your rifle?. Sure is.... You might need to clean, anneal and refresh old stuff to make it usable but that is nothing different than we do with our regular stuff. The only problem is finding factory brass....

In the 30 Remington finding brass was not so easy but not very hard. So far a member here has said he has some factory ammo and I am waiting on a final count, I also have from another source 4 boxes vintage factory ammo on the way along with a couple hundred fired cases and I have an order in with Buffalo Arms for some new factory loaded and 250 new factory brass.

Figure how much brass you need and start looking for it.

[PB234]

excess650, if you are looking for jacketed maybe glance at Hawk bullets. I recall they offer a few 9mm dimensions.

[I'll Make Mine]

The 9x56 appears to be quite close to the 9x57, and wouldn't be surprised if they were interchangeable. I have an old J P Sauer DST Mauser in 9x57, but its bore has seen better days. I formed my brass by expanding 8x57s. IIRC, I tried resizing 35 Whelens, but they didn't want to chamber...chamber may be tighter than my Redding dies.

There's probably enough variation in chambers and factory brass to make them overlap, but the spec for 9.3x57 (which I presume is what you're referring to) has the same head as .30-06 et al, while 9x56 Mannlicher has a few thousandths smaller head; in a tight chamber, you might find brass made from a .30-06 family case will be tight unless sized in a small base die. These are easy to get in .30-06 and shouldn't touch the shoulder, but will reduce the last few millimeters of the neck; if to be used only for processing brass to go in the 9x56, you could bore out the neck of the die so it doesn't touch the brass.

I'd certainly avoid assuming 9.3x57 is interchangeable with 9x56 for another reason: the 9.3 is .010" larger nominal bullet size and the x57 is probably loaded hotter than 9x56; the combination of oversize bullet (if it chambers) and hotter powder load could be Very Bad for the Mannlicher chambered rifle.

[RPRNY]

Both Sellier & Bellot and Privipartizan do commercial 8x56 ammo, boxer primed. The former is on the shelf at Cabelas in E Hartford. The latter makes and sells cases, as does RWS. The 9x56 is just the 8x56 necked up. Commercial ammo pulled, emptied and loaded with a few grains of Bullseye and ye olde cream of wheat should fire form it nicely. CH4D has dies, a little pricey at $80 (includes custom diameter expander ball ) or you may be able to neck size with some other 9mm die. Go for it.

[Greg]

So, I dug my 1905 MS out of the safe.

I had some range pick-up 6mm brass, I trimmed to 2.230" loaded a fire form load of Bullseye and cornmeal. lost some cases to neck splits (unknown brass quality) average case length as fire formed 2.217 with slight turned in radius at case mouth.

I ordered a Lee case trimmer at 2.205" and 100 pieces 6mm brass. already have CH4D dies.

loaded 5 of the fire formed cases with; CC1 200, 40.0 IMR 4064, 35 Thor @ 234grains. 2.865" OAL
fed from magazine smoothly, shot about an inch at 50 yards. with the scope dial at 3, to POA

[Mr Peabody]

You might dig out Ken Waters writings on loading for it. He was pretty good about loading issues.

[Mr. Berdan]

30-06 cases (unmarked military) resized in 8x57 die, trimmed to length (56mm) then a 9mm expander button and cast 357 250 gr.
sized to .355 I have an old 35 winchester Lymann mold, gas checked of course, and start with 35rem. loads of IMR 4895 til you are satisfied with accuracy. simple pie! get that old rotary mag. beauty shooting again....don I hate fire forming!

[gmsharps]

I use 30-06 brass to form or 8mm Mauser also works. Check your bore. The 9x56 had a wide variety of bore sizes. Mine has a .351.

gmsharps

[SOFMatchstaff]

Both of mine have .3525 bores. I make jacketed .354 bullets from the fired 9mm steyr brass and get good performance from gray bores and open sights. Brass is 06, 8mm, ect. the case gets a trip thru the 45 acp size die to deal with any bases that tend to be finicky. I lean toward IMR3031 cuz I gots lots of it.
easier and more current is for "reloaders", I like the "Handloader" part of it....

[Wilderness]

I owned an early M1905 9x56 carbine with 17.7" barrel., SN 20XX. I credit (?) it with a substantial part of my hearing loss. I would be better disposed to a rifle version of the M1905. Other than the noise, it was a great unit. There is absolutely NO drama in loading 9x56.

My reloading dies were RCBS, plus eventually a Lyman M Die for the cast bullets.

For cases I had some original Kynoch berdan ammo, and thence cases. Plus I resized some Norma 9.3x57 brass and expanded and resized some military WRA 8x57 brass. All worked well. If I recall correctly I think my trim length was 2.225". The bolt would not close on the first cases I sized - turned out to be case length, so if it happens to you, try trimming before blaming the dies.

You don't need to get excited about the .353" barrel. My carbine had a long freebore which started at .359" and digested .358" jacketed bullets just fine. The Kynoch bullets were .356".

The fixed sights shot high with 200 gn bullets but were on the mark with 250 gn plus. Eventual loads were 42 gns 3031 for the jacketed 250s (Hornady and Norma) and 40 gns for #3589HP (260 gn).

Initially I tried #350447HP (Correction: #350457HP - 250 gns) bullet sized to .354". It shot just OK at lower velocity but groups blew out when I tried for a hunting load. Then I tried #3589HP sized to .354" and it likewise did not like the heavier loads. When I shot #3589HP at full size (.360"), groups came in to about 1.25" at 50 yards with 40 gns 3031. Velocity in the carbine was a little over 1900 fps. Alloy was quite hard, about 10% non-lead, achieved by blending approx three parts hardball to one part linotype.

The cast bullets were superb on pigs. One good memory was of a sow shot from astern (THS) whilst asleep in some dense cover. About the only reaction was a flap of the ears. The bullet broke the second last vertebra in the neck.

The Mannlicher 1905 loads with a standard Mauser (Springfield?) charger, and indeed my Kynoch ammo was packed in DM chargers.

I repeat: There is absolutely no drama in loading and casting for 9x56. Expect good groups and good knockdown. But better a rifle than a carbine.

P.S. Lyman #42 has loading data for 9 mm Mannlicher - jacketed bullets .358", cast .359", max 42 gns 3031 with 250 gn jacketed, 2075 fps (barrel length not stated).

P.P.S. I shot a few Lyman #358318 (250 gn solids) I was given. No recollection of group, but I remember killing a boar pig in short order with a front on chest shot.