1871 Remington Rolling Block- NYSM in 50/70

[Malgus]

Hello gents.

I got bit by the reloading bug and the black powder bug pretty much at the same time. Went to the big Louisville gun show a couple 6 weeks ago or whenever it was. Original intent was to load up on smokeless powder and primers since everyone seems to be out. All that was available was pretty much garbage- Russian primers (really? Russian? Never used em so..) and reclaimed powder that could have come from anywhere or been made up of anything...

Pass.

Went looking all over the show and during one of those "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy" moments, found a beautiful Remington Roller... NYSM version. It was dusty (like, pulled out of King Tut's tomb dusty), but the stock was better than intact, it barely had a mark on it. Barrel and hardware were in really fine shape, but alas, most of the finish was gone.

The bore? Best part. Shone like a mirror. What all this says to me is "I was used, but very well cared for and stored just as carefully". The receiver, barrel and hardware all seem to have a coating of ancient oil or grease on them that appears to have turned to varnish over time... a good degreasing would probably benefit it.

Bought everything by Croft Barker and Paul Matthews I could find, and have been reading my way through the pile.

I don't see why this old warhorse shouldn't be put back into action...

Pics coming soon.

[G50-70]

Congratulations. You have a very nice rifle.

There is a group buy for a NOE 515141 - 450Gr boolit you might want to consider. Should be excellent for your rifle.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?116326-NOE-515141-450Gr-FN

[Malgus]

Congratulations. You have a very nice rifle.

There is a group buy for a NOE 515141 - 450Gr boolit you might want to consider. Should be excellent for your rifle.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?116326-NOE-515141-450Gr-FN

Why thank you sir! Thanks for bird-dogging that for me... I'm in!

[Malgus]

Some quick pics taken today...

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[bob208]

looks like it has most of the finish on the action. the barrel and bands were finished in armory bright. which is left polished. no blue or brown.

[Malgus]

looks like it has most of the finish on the action. the barrel and bands were finished in armory bright. which is left polished. no blue or brown.

That, I did not know... well, I guess this was cutting edge prototype tech back in 1871. Which is why the barrel is only 1 in 42. Should be a spin of 1 in 24 or 26 to stabilize a heavy boolit out to 800 and beyond (unless I can persuade oldpara to make one of his custom molds so that the boolits have fins on the back).

But bluing and browning clearly existed at the time, having been around at least 100 years, so that begs the question of why did they opt for a rifle in the white? I mean, other than tradition? I think it would look quite handsome with a nice rust blued barrel and bands.

Which brings up an interesting question- To modify or not to modify?

See, I'm not a collector. I'm a shooter. If I don't like something, I'll mod it to suit me. I understand purists hate that and "collectors" cringe at the thought, but it is what it is.

The thought crossed my mind: If the barrel has a 1 in 42 twist on it, then why not replace the barrel with one with a 1 in 24 or 26? Same barrel profile, so I can reuse the bands, stock, sights, etc. And if I'm going to do that, then why not have a little fun and upgrade to 50/90?

Still up in the air about it... might just shoot it the way it is and build what I want out of a Model 1 or 1 1/2 receiver...

Mal

[NickSS]

I had one of the NY rollers a bunch of years ago and it shot real accurately with the standard GI load of a 450 gr bullet over 70 Gr of FFG. the only problem I had was that it shot exactly one foot to the right at 100 yards and 2 feet right at 200 yards but groups were around 2 inches at 100 and 4 inches at 200. I sold the gun at a considerable profit.

[Malgus]

I had one of the NY rollers a bunch of years ago and it shot real accurately with the standard GI load of a 450 gr bullet over 70 Gr of FFG. the only problem I had was that it shot exactly one foot to the right at 100 yards and 2 feet right at 200 yards but groups were around 2 inches at 100 and 4 inches at 200. I sold the gun at a considerable profit.

So, minute of pie plate? :mrgreen:

Good enough for deer, specially around here..

[bob208]

who knows why they had the finish on any rifle ? the enfield 1853 had a blued barrel. the 1861 and 1863 springfields had armory bright. the 1841 rifle had a brown barrel. the 1863 remington had a blued barrel. the sharps the trapdoor had blue barrels.

as far as working it over. unless someone gave it to you or paid you to carry it off. you will be way behind. you would be better to sell it on gun broker. then buy a new one in the cal. you want.

[Malgus]

who knows why they had the finish on any rifle ? the enfield 1853 had a blued barrel. the 1861 and 1863 springfields had armory bright. the 1841 rifle had a brown barrel. the 1863 remington had a blued barrel. the sharps the trapdoor had blue barrels.

as far as working it over. unless someone gave it to you or paid you to carry it off. you will be way behind. you would be better to sell it on gun broker. then buy a new one in the cal. you want.

After reading your post, I think barrel finishes were more of a fashion statement than anything. :D What would go best with this uniform? Brown this, polish that...

The second half of your post makes sense. The law of diminishing returns. But, then I was never one to pay attention to stuff like that. I'm a smithy, and I've always been the kind of guy who does what he wants. Still, making that old roller into what I want it to be represents a ton of work.

So, I've decided that I'm going to keep the roller the way she is and shoot it just so. I'll keep her clean and happy for the next generation of shooters (since we don't really 'own' anything.. just take care of it for a time until we pass on).

As far as my own project, I'll start with a Model 1 receiver and just go from there. The amount of work we're talking about is almost the same and I'll still get what I want without making any purists mad. If I could find one of those Engineer carbines in 11mm to use as a template, that would be a big help, especially in duping the stocks.. something like this:

70532
70533

In an awesome caliber, like 50-90. I think that would be hilarious.

[Malgus]

looks like it has most of the finish on the action. the barrel and bands were finished in armory bright. which is left polished. no blue or brown.

Hey bob, check out what I found!

In Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World by George Layman, I found this:


pp 53.

"There are a number of variations of the New York Rolling Block. Examples have seen that were finished completely "in the white" [i.e., polished], with polished actions and blued barrels, and with color case-hardened actions and blued barrels. A variety of unit markings can be found while many rifles have no unit markings at all."

Seems that the NYSM didn't know what it wanted, eh?

I'm going to perform a complete DCOA on the rifle and hopefully that will tell the tale of what the finish really was on this rifle.

What surprises await under the showline or under the barrel bands?

Mal

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Nice looking Roller !
Have a couple trapdoors in 50-70. There is no reason a 50-70 cannot shoot as well as a 45-70. Just have to feed it the proper diet. I am rather found of the 450gr Ideal mold 515141. I lube with 55% beeswax and 45% oilive oil. 3F at 63 grains. Boolits are cast with 40-1.
Good to see you got in on the 50-70 hollow base. I am there also.
A roller is on my list but as of yet a descent 50-70 has not come along at the right time.

[Malgus]

Greetings
Nice looking Roller !
Have a couple trapdoors in 50-70. There is no reason a 50-70 cannot shoot as well as a 45-70. Just have to feed it the proper diet. I am rather found of the 450gr Ideal mold 515141. I lube with 55% beeswax and 45% oilive oil. 3F at 63 grains. Boolits are cast with 40-1.
Good to see you got in on the 50-70 hollow base. I am there also.
A roller is on my list but as of yet a descent 50-70 has not come along at the right time.

Thank you. I sort of fell into it... A guy knows a guy who knows a guy who...

In case you are interested, the gentleman I bought the roller off of, he had two. One (mine) was the NYSM model. The other was a Navy roller. Two barrel bands. Anchor stamped. It looked to be in fine shape- as good as mine at least.

If you want, I can try and scratch up the name/addy of the guy who has the navy roller. He might not have it since the gun show was several weeks ago. Price was somewhere around 1250.

Mal

[CanoeRoller]

Modifying a roller that old and in that condition would not ben very economical. The damage to the resale value would diminish the resale value more than it would improve it. There a lots of roller actions out there, and rebuilding one of them them makes more sense than taking a survivor and turning it into just another customized action. There is also the fact that if I ever make it to 130 years old, I hope no one wants to strip my pipe off of me. :lol: