First time casting, boolits out of round

[Ram]

Hi everyone,
My first time casting, and every single one of the bullets I cast are out of round(left half of mold doesn't line up with the right). The problem is bad enough that it is clearly visible. I'm using an rcbs pro melt pot & a lee 6 cavity .356'' mold for 9mm RN. This is a new mold.

Here is what I did from A-Z:
First, I appled 91% isopropyl alchohol to the cavities with a q-tip.

After drying, I smoked each cavity with a butane torch. Here's where it got weird. The mold never turned black, despite holding the torch to the mold for 30 seconds or more at a time. The cavities remained completely shiny. I tried using a lighter too, but got the same result.

I then heated the pot, melted lead, fluxed with sawdust & removed crud with a spoon, then put the corner of the mold into the pot to heat it. Once the lead stopped sticking to the mold I opened the mold & sprue plate, and lubed the bottom of the sprue plate, tops of the mold, and all hinges with bullplate lube.(As per bullplate instructions I shook the bottle & used only the residue in the cap, applying a thin even coat to the mold)

Then I started casting. However bullet #1 to bullet #100 all came out out-of-round. There wasn't a single bullet that was correct. I made sure that there were no lead obstructions between the two halves of the mold, and I tried lubing the surface between the two mold halves with bullplate(and later A-lox) after I noticed they were out of round, but this didn't seem to do anything. The Lee reloading handbook says that lack of lube is the #1 cause of out-of-round bullets but I'm fairly sure lube wasn't an issue. I was sure to fully close both halves every time & lock the sprue plate in place. With the bullplate there was no resistance to locking the mold. I also made sure there was generous excess lead for the sprue.

I feel like I did everything to the T(except maybe lubing the contact surfaces, wasn't sure whether that was ok or a bad thing. At any rate it didn't make any difference). Apart from being out of round, all of the bullets were nice & shiny & fully formed.

Am I missing something obvious here, or could my mold be bad? I've attached pics below. Unfortunately the issue doesn't show up as well in the photos, but the second pic should give you an idea.

--Varun


70308
70307

[runfiverun]

you need to adjust your alignment pins.
if you are looking at the mold while it is on the handles and you are holding them
and the right side needs to go forward, tap the front pin into the other side of the mold.
you will see the cavity's shift forward.
if the right side needs to come back towards you, tap in the rear pin.

you may need to tap the other pin into the side holding it so the mold opens and closes freely.
take your time and pay attention but you'll see it happening.

[ku4hx]

Your post gives no measurements; how much out of round? I don't think I've ever cast a boolit that was perfectly round; admittedly, some less so than others. Sizing your boolits will make them more rounder to your liking; you may find that as-cast and [slightly] out of round they work just fine. I have had undersized boolits out of round to the point that only one side actually got sized when passed through the die. Oddly enough, they worked well; they still do. You have to make up a few dummy rounds and see how they chamber. If they chamber, make up a few live rounds and test fire.

Lee's statement about not having to size tumble lube boolits is true to a point. But depending on such factors as alloy composition, casting temperatures and etc., sizing may be necessary to get the diameter you need.

If either your mold blocks or the cavities are misaligned, shifting the two sides of the boolit, that's a whole 'nother problem requiring a whole different approach to your problem's resolution.

[mdi]

Personally, I wouldn't hold a butane torch on an aluminum mold for 30 seconds, might warp it? Actually, I don't do anything to a mold except clean it, and very lightly lube the bars and/or pins. Q-tips are ok for applying Bullplate but for cleaning I would get more aggressive. A brush, some Dawn dish soap, and some HOT water. For me, just before casting I like to spray the mold cavities with brake clean just to insure there is no oil residue there. With a 6 banger, I've experienced uneven heat distribution; one end may be hotter than the other, and a cast may contain both good and bad bullets. So, I would re-clean the mold, lube the pins lightly, and try to keep an even temperature from one end to the other (aluminum heats and cools pretty quickly an one end hotter than the other end may cause the out of round bullets. You need a micrometer too...:mrgreen:

BTW; ku4hx is correct, you won't get cast bullets dropping from a mold to be as dimensionally correct as a machined part...

[wallenba]

Not lining up side to side, or top to bottom? As said check pins. If this is an older Lee mold with the long horizontal pins, try resting the bottoms of both halves on a flat surface as you are closing. That will assure that one half is not higher than the other when closed. That noted, I do have one Lee mold where the left half of the mold is made from a block that is smaller than the right. Relax your grip, you may be trying too hard to clamp it shut. If all this fails, send it back.

[Ram]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was looking at the mold & noticed that the sprue plate hinge bolt had come a little loose so I tightened that down. I'm going to try casting again tonight & will adjust the pins.

It's difficult to measure, but best guess is that there is a .005'' shift between the two sides of the bullet(shift is across the width of the bullet, length is aligned). The diameter at the base taken at where the mold halves join is .365". The diameter at the base taken 90 degrees to this position is .360"

Is the Alox on the mold half contact surfaces going to be a problem? I'm going to use dishwasher soap to clean the faces as mdi suggested, any particular type of brush I should be using?(are we talking painters hair brushes or brass brush?)

Also is my molds not turning black after smoking a cause for concern? I've seen videos of other lee aluminum molds turn black so I find this kind of weird.

Thanks again for all the advice, will post back here with results.

[Larry Gibson]

I was sure to fully close both halves every time & lock the sprue plate in place.

If you hold the sprue plate handle closed, while holding the 2 block handles, when pouring it can spread the blocks apart at the bottom and cause what you are describing. If that's what you were doing (?) try closing the sprue plate and then slightly back it off and don't hold it "shut" with the two mould block handles while pouring.


BTW; If you clean the mould block off with carb cleaner (I q-tip the cavities out aver such) then you won't have to "smoke" the cavities. I've not "smoked" a cavity in 25+ years because it shouldn't be necessary.

Larry Gibson

[Ram]

Thanks Larry. I was in fact squeezing the the sprue plate lever to the handles. I'll try backing off a bit this time. Also will try using carb cleaner, seems simpler anyway than smoking.

--Varun

[runfiverun]

yeah don't smoke them.
and don't hold the sprue cutter at all.

[ku4hx]

best guess is that there is a .005'' shift between the two sides of the bullet(shift is across the width of the bullet, length is aligned).

Not trying to get too deep into silly semantics, that to me is not so much "out-of-round" as much as "misalignment". That would be either the mold blocks themselves, the cavities or both. If it were my mold, I'd call that a manufacturing defect and already be in the process of returning it for warranty replacement.

The difference at the base sounds like true "out-of-round" and .005" may or may not be a problem depending on how much you size it down. But .005" is on the unacceptable ragged edge of being too oval for me.

Use a tooth brush, not a metal brush of any kind, to clean the block faces and cavities.

I stopped smoking molds sometime around 1989. I just never found it to have any added value, just added cost and hassle.

[wallenba]

I quit smoking mine. I found no difference.

[Bzcraig]

FYI, butane/propane torch will not smoke a mold, try a match or one of those small butane lighters. I smoked my first mold just like Lee recommended but in the end cleaned it all up sprayed some Kroil on it, let it sit overnight, cleaned again and got great boolits.

[41 mag fan]

I quit smoking my molds after I noticed no difference after about the 5th or 6th cast, maybe the 10th. By then most of the smoke was off the cavities. Tried leementing, and now regardless of mold or maker, they all get leemented.

Might be a very minimal amount of leementing on my better quality molds, but it ensures my casts pretty much fall right out of the mold when I open it up.

[mdi]

I quit smoking molds in '88. Too hard to keep them lit! (someone had to say it...:roll:)

[CAVEMTNMAN]

The out of round could be the mould. I bought a new Lyman .44 245 gr. mould and it was out of round. Sent it back to Lyman and they sent me a new one.

[leeggen]

Are you lubing the mold faces? If so why. the lube on the faces could keep the mold from closeing face to face, lube would act like the mold was not closed and cuase out of round bullets. Scrub your mold with dawn and hot water then heat up and make bullets. Read " From ingot to Target" great reading and imfor. Lots of how to do it in there.
Good luck.
CD

[farmbif]

I have found that spending the price for a lyman mould, $78 for a 4 cavity pistol from southern shooters, was worth every penny after using several lee molds. I am really looking forward to my first 4 cavity brass mold from a group buy here. With all molds i got new i just degreased, let dry and start casting, molds heat up fine after the first 3 or 4 pours. When done let cool and then oil steel mold to prevent rust. What i have found about availability the past few months is you have to keep checking online sources cause they get inventory in but it sells out quick there are too many people buying everything they can then selling on online auctions for double retail price.