Which barrel maker for a .35 Whelen?

[johnfl]

Hi, I am thinking about putting a faster twist barrel on a Remington Classic that was rechambered for .35 Whelen Improved. I have a 280 grain .358 mold that my .358 Winchester loves.... But with the 1 in 16 inch twist Remington barrel I have not gotten the results I had hoped for yet....

What are the points to consider when looking for a new barrel.... Are there different types of rifling offered to build a rifle with? 1in 12 or 1in 14" rate of twist?

I love my Whelen... It is bedded into a McMillian stock and has a Kippinger set trigger that is about perfect for me.... The practical thing would be to just buy a mold that casts lighter bullets.... But thought I'd ask about chosing an after market barrel likely to shoot cast bullets better over all.....

Thanks

[Adk Mike]

It will be interesting when you get some answers. I have a Remington i want to have rebarreled to a 35 Whalen myself.

[nicholst55]

I used a 14" twist Shilen barrel when I built mine. It shoots quite well, although I've mostly shot 200-grain factory stuff in it so far. That's going to change eventually, but I think that barrel will work fine with suitable cast boolits.

[GBertolet]

Looking at my Greenhill formula chart, it shows for a 1-16 twist @ 35 cal, a max bullet weight of 282 gr and a max bullet oal of 1.19". You are running on the edge according to this. You didn't mention your intended use of this 280 gr bullet. If it is just for target shooting, or maybe all but the largest game, a different mold may be the cheapest way to go. A new barrel plus gunsmithing charges, will likely set you back $300.
That said, I have a 35 Whelen AI also, built on a Enfield P17 action. Mine has a Douglas 1-12 twist barrel with a detachable brake. The 1-12 barrel twist was not of my choice, but of the gunsmith who built the rifle. It was built for J bullets. It's probably a little fast for cast bullets, but I get 1.5 inch or less groups at 100 yards with 200 to 250 gr cast bullets.

[Nobade]

I am very happy with my 1:14 Midway Adams & Bennett barrel on the 358. It works beautifully with #358009, just a touch under 300gr, as well as with 200gr. and 250gr. boolits.

I think a 1:12 would end up limiting velocity too much when shooting naked grease groove boolits, though it wouldn't be a problem for paper patched.

-Nobade

[waksupi]

I have .358 Win's in both 1-12 and 1-14. Both shoot very well. As for barrel makers, it is a lot harder to find a bad barrel today. They hardly ever happen anymore, and the manufacturers tend to back them up.

[Mk42gunner]

I have a 98 Mauser with an Adams and Bennett 1:14 barrel in .35 Whelen, from about 12 years ago. It shoots J-words very well, I can't tell you about boolits yet.

I think the reason Remington put 16" twists on these rifles is because they didn't plan on loading anything heavier than 250 grains, and that is the same rate of twist they used for both the .35 Remington and .350 Remington Magnum.

Robert

[outdoorfan]

1-14 twist. As to barrel maker, I'd go with what you can afford. I don't know if they are mostly just doing button rifling? I would go with whatever method gives me the tallest rifling height, but that can get spendy.

My McGowen 35 Whelen shoots great, for what that's worth. I think Waksupi is right.

[johnfl]

Thanks guys.... IIRC there different "styles" of rifling.... Glock's polygonal and Marlins older Micro groove being 2 that come to mind as less than optimal for cast bullets.... Remingtons R5 claimed to be better for some accuracy improvement in their police style .308 guns....

I have read about variable gain (starting slow and then becoming faster) shallow rifling probably other types that I have forgotten altogether....

I have gotten old enough that my "serious" hunting days are over.... If a deer walks out somewhere where I figure I can drive the truck right up to, it will likely still End up in my freezer... Otherwise I enjoy watching them more than having to drag them out.... Rabbits and squirrels are still in danger around me though (grin).

I would mostly be shooting reduced loads ( bone spur in the shoulder....ouch)... The reason I'm still interested in heavier bullets though is that A) that's what I started out planning to do after reading one of Paco Kelly's articles on the Whelen years ago about "cat sneeze" quite but still deadly at close range loads all the way up to darn near .375 level of power with the correct heavy cast bullets...

B) is that my wife and I were able to buy an a joining property last year and now will be able to put up steel targets to just over 400 yards.... Being able to make long range gongs really swing puts a smile on my face....

C) When we built our house 14 years ago I used a laser range finder to determin where to build so that the back deck off the upstairs reloading room is just 100 yards from the back berm... I'm retired now and need to spend more time using it .... Shooting bug hole groups makes me smile....that's the only reason I'm starting to research top shelf barrels.... I'm sure I could continue to use the current barrel and may be a lighter bullet.... And make steel sing.... But if investing 400.00 or 500.00 more in a custom barrel would produce inch or better 100 yard groups regularly.... It would feel like I had put the finishing touches on a project I started many years ago...

[country gent]

Alot will depend on your "budget" Kriegers , Harts, Liljas, Pac Nors are a little more expensive but are true target grade barrels. You also need to decide on Cut Rifling hand lapped, broached and lapped, broached, button or button lapped. Also stainless or chrome moly ( steel). then comes the gunsmith, some have prefrences they want to work with as to barrels and reamers. hThen comes reamer maker, style, throat length and angle. What sights scope with or without irons? I have used Kriegers Stainless on my service rifles for many years, Have a vwery good lilja and pacnor also. My hart on my course gun was a tack driver but is burnt out now. Douglass, shilens, are good. There are several new makers out there I havent used yet. I have a green mountain coming on a rifle soon and one to fit up on a rem rolling block. Dave Manson makes very good reamers and will work with you. I have a 308 throated so 155s touch rifling from a M1A mag length. A wildcatt 6.5 on 300wsm case and a 38-55 from him. As to gunsmiths there all you can do is ask around as to quality and speed of work. (some gunsmiths are back logged a few weeks some may be longer) I ordered the rifle Im waiting on last november. Pick three barrel makers and contact them for information regaurding your project ask questions. Accept in put. Same with the reamers. I have only used clymers and Dave Mansons both are from michigan. Take your time and enjoy building this rifle get as involved as much as possible. When I built my first M1A national match rifle my gunsmith actually allowed me to watch and ask questions. when he did it. I learned alot that day.

[357Mag]

John -

Howdy !

IMHO:
With all the quality barrel makers out there, you might want to pre-sort your choices; using criteria like:
- Do they even offer .358 cal" barrels ?
- Can I get the barrel length and/or barrel diameter I want... w/o incurring extra cost ?
- If chrome moly is desired, does the barrel maker being considered offer it ? Visa-versa for stainless.
- Can I get the number of lands & grooves I want.... when something more non-standard is sought ( such as a 3- groove ) ?
- Other stuff, like " squeeze bore " , " gain-twist "; and so forth.

Then you can filter, using things like:
- Tolerable delivery time
- Twist rate
- Barrel profile offered
- Even things like " fluting "

- Run the potential vendors through the above series of filters; and I dare say... your "short list" will be just that.

- Don't be afraid to give a " cottage industry " supplier a crack at it.
Oft times, these low volumne suppliers are more apt to have the time to listen more closely to you, than does a major supplier.


With regards,
357Mag

[johnfl]

Thank you Country Gent.... There are some local guys that shoot J bullets out to a thousand yards ... 2 of them have built their own rifles that have shoot very well for them.... They love Kriegers.... But they don't build them to shoot cast bullets....

If I do this I would go with a standard Whelen chamber.... Putting together a dummy round with the 280 grain bullet I cast would perhaps be wise though....

Hand lapped sounds right.... it is the different ways that rifling is cut that could make a difference... I'm sure I have read some gun writer some where over the years singing the praises of one method over the other for cast.... Hard to say if they really had hard data though...

Are there gunsmiths that have a record of building bolt action guns that shoot cast especially well?

[johnfl]

357 Mag good points thanks... I now remember Kenny Jarrett giving up on other barrel makers for .358 barrels... Too many of them didn't shoot to his standards.... He started building his own...

No way I'm even thinking about asking a "big name" smith to re barrel... I could see spending 500.00 if I need to.... Hope to continue to benefit from the knowledge of folks here who shoot cast bullets so that I could get the most.... Wait for it.... Bang for the buck (grin).

Again thanks to all for the input.

[Nobade]

If you are interested in shooting primarily cast in your Whelen, you do need to give some thought to the reamer design. The SAAMI Whelen throat is very large - up to .362", and isn't the best for boolits. I would recommend picking a boolits design you want to primarily use, make up some dummy ammo just like what you want, then talk to Mr. Manson about designing a reamer to fit that ammo. Keep the chamber length close to the case length, make the throat fit the boolit, and you will get great results from pretty much any aftermarket barrel if it is properly made and installed.

-Nobade

[Blammer]

I have a 14T shelin on mine, but I didn't start getting groups until I hardened my boolist a bit by water dropping them.

You may want to try that first as a cheap fix.

[Corbi]

I also have a Mauser 98 with an Adams and Bennett (stainless) barrel. It is 1N14 twist. I am very happy with the barrel. The contour is a little heavy.

I believe Midway has or at least used to have pre-threaded and short chambered barrels for the M-700.

Corbi

[sundog]

A Shilen 14 twist will accurately stabilize the 358009 out to at least 200 yards. I know this. And, it's a real thumper, too.

[felix]

That gun of Sundog's shoots too! How about 2 inches or less at 2 hunnert guaranteed with any realistic load giving at least 1900 fps muzzle? Dang thing cracks modern highway slabs (a foot thick?) at 50 yards with 45 degree angle no problem. ... felix

[HARRYMPOPE]

My 1-16 shoots the 3589 just fine at 1600.

George