45 acp bhn?

[tpkelly69]

I'm new to casting and enjoying it a lot, but I'm a little tentative. I read that I should shoot for a BHN between 12 and 18 for shooting cast bullets in my 1911. Is that about right? I'm casting 230GR roundnose.

Is there a BHN that's to hard? I read that I can increase the BHN by quenching, but it seems to make the bullet pretty hard and I'm wondering if there's an issue there.

Tommy

[Sgtonory]

For me i started to load 230g Tumble lube cast bullets from range scrap that i water quinch just so i can lube them faster and have no leading out of a aftermarket barrel for a Glock 21. But i do get leading with commercial 230LRN and they advertise a BHN of 18. Nothing major but better luck with the ones i cast. Hope this helps.

[kartooo]

i get leading from commercial cast in my light .38 special loads. with my WW cast which is softer i get NO leading. there is a balance somewhere to soft/hard and light/hot loads that you need to find.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i just use range scrap and mix in WW lead 70/30
works great in my XDs

[lars1367]

I haven't had any issue with WW's in my 1911. I water quench and tumble lube. Never had a problem with them being to hard. Your 1911 barrel, assuming it's a GI spec or modern equivalent, was designed for sending jacketed ball ammo down range. Those copper jackets are most likely harder than any lead would get from quenching. Not sure if that answers your question, but hope it helps.
-Lars

[dragon813gt]

12 is already on the high side. 18 is a complete waste for a low pressure round like 45acp. I use isotope lead which is 11 bhn for every pistol round.

[ColColt]

BHN10-12 is good for the 45. I wouldn't use anything harder...no need.

[tpkelly69]

Awesome! Thanks guys!

Tommy

[Recluse]

Careful about what you read in the manuals and on other sites. As has been stated, 18 BHN is not only a complete waste, but can/will often contribute to leading because the round is too hard to obturate given the low-pressure of the round. Toss in a pitted barrel, such as what is commonly found on older 1911s, and now you're guaranteed some time with a Chore Boy.

45 ACP and 45 Colt boolits are ones I purposely add more pure lead to the pot for and never water drop. I WANT them a bit softer.

:coffee:

[MtGun44]

I concur with the others, with .45 ACP, no reason for hard alloys.

Frankly, I can get great results with a plain base design at full max vel in .44 Mag or
.357 at 8 BHN. I do not need hard alloys for normal mag or regular pistols.

Bill

[knifemaker]

I have shot many thousands of 45acp cast in about 4 different 1911s and I used 50/50 clip on wheel weights with pure lead for about 9bn. Never had a problem with leading or accuracy in any of the pistols. I used a 230 gr. TC mold with white label BAC lube with 5.3 gr. of W-231 for a velocity of 830fps for my pratice and match loads for IDPA matches.

[jonp]

I have been using some commercial cast bhn 18 in my 45acp with no evidence of leading. This sounds abnormal? Is there some reason I'm not getting the lead and everyone else is? Shootng them over 4.5gr avg Promo.

[theperfessor]

Jonp, if the fit is good, then the hardness is of much less importance. If its not, then high hardness can make things worse. A .45 ACP is a very forgiving low pressure round, but size some hard bullets .001-.002 too small and watch the leading buildup. Hard lead alloy bullets gas cut just as fast as soft lead alloy bullets. You want bullets to be hard enough to grab the rifling and prevent nose slump/deformation, but that's usually not a problem with the .45 ACP. If you seal the gasses behind the bullet there won't be any gas cutting. The rest of the equation is lubrication, and at ACP velocities IMHO almost any good lube works.

The bullets you use must fit your gun pretty well. Terrific, have fun, its great when that happens. I hate scraping lead out like everyone else. I'd bet if they fit as well and were 10 BHN they would work fine also, and you might be saying that soft bullets are fine in a .45 ACP.

Hardness has to be one of the most stressed over, least important factors in reloading.

[tpkelly69]

From what I'm reading here, it seems the same approach would work for my 9mm casting also. A little faster FPS, but it seems I don't need to quench for them either if it's around 12bhn?

[Shiloh]

i just use range scrap and mix in WW lead 70/30
works great in my XDs

Me too. I can dig my thumbnail into the soft boolits. The gun doesn't care, and the targets look great.

Shiloh

[theperfessor]

The only time I worry about hardness in any pistol round is to make sure that it is hard enough to not squeeze down when I seat the bullet in the case. Again it is a matter of fit, only this time between the case and the bullet. A crimp will not make up for a poor fit of bullet to case.

I might add that the most powerful handguns I own are several .44 mags, no big boomers, Contenders, etc. so I won't presume to give an opinion on how hard bullets need to be for those guns.

I'd definitely read MtGun44's sticky on setting up a 9mm for cast bullets. That's a lot higher pressure round, and the bore diameter/chamber dimensions can make reloading for them a little tougher proposition.

[hermans]

I agree 100% with theperfessor.....boolit to barrel fit is what is important, not the BHN, but anything upwards of 12BHN is a waste in the 45 ACP.

[DrCaveman]

Ok guys what about nose deformation from hitting the feed ramp?

Not important? I notice that my dummy rounds being tested for chambering get a nice ding on the front corner. Using about 12-14 BHN boolits, accurate molds hg 68 clone.

You Think nose deformation is a moot issue in 45 acp accuracy? In rifle rounds I sure wouldn't accept the flat spot in the nose that I am seeing in my post-feeding 45 rounds.

Ill say that I am pretty darn happy with the accuracy from this boolit in front of 5 gr bullseye, but 'pretty darn happy' is not the apex of the rainbow.

???

[Dave C.]

Nose deformation is not an issue unless you hit them with a 3lb hammer!
Accuracy is determined mostly by the last full diameter band of the bullet.
The seal between the bullet and the barrel crown must break evenly or all
is a waste of time. Summed up the crown and the bullet base must be perfect.

Dave C.

[detox]

Hard alloys like Linotype will shoot without leading if boolit is slightly oversize and a good soft lube is used. Some people can aquire linotype more cheaply than wheelweights or other types of lead.

[mikemc]

I use isotope lead and water drop with no leading in my XDm 45. Well over 2,000+ with no problems. I do clean the gun every 300-400 but I am not seeing any lead when I clean it

[plainsman456]

I cast 200 grain SWC for my 45 out of wheel weights and range scrap.

I let them air cool and have had no leading problems.
The only time i had leading in my 45 was with some swagged bullits from a major manufacturer.

[Char-Gar]

Way to much time is spent worrying about alloy hardness. I will throw in with the guys who say 10-12 is high end for the 45 ACP round. It is not the kiss of death to use harder, but there is no need.

[dancingbear41]

For many years I used pure lead swaged bullets in .45 ACP pistols and then in carbines after our pistols were banned. I had no problems at all with bullets deforming whilst cycling through the action or with leading. I use cast bullets now simply because I have so many pretty .45 bullet moulds. I still swage bullets for other people to shoot. I agree with previous comments that very hard bullets are not required.

[Shiloh]

Accuracy is determined mostly by the last full diameter band of the bullet.
The seal between the bullet and the barrel crown must break evenly or all
is a waste of time. Summed up the crown and the bullet base must be perfect.

Dave C.

+1. I suscribe to this.

Shiloh

[Jim..47]

My 45acp is a Kimber 5" barrel. I use nothing but wheel weight lead and water drop. Lube with home made lube in a lubersizer. No problems with leading or accuracy.

I'll soon be testing the same WW lead on my 40S&W Glock Storm barrel.

Edit: I think they drop at around 12bhn.

I use the same WW lead and lubing in my 45/70 Contender loaded hot, alos no performance problems or leading, same also in my Contender 10" 44 Mag barrel.

If you dig out the bullets after firing you can see they hardly deform. I think some of them could actually be lubed & reloaded.

[Potsy]

My Kimber seems to prefer water dropped, but I couldn't back it up with hard data. I tried it, groups looked smaller, I still do it.
I will add that I'm sizing to .452 and using alox/beeswax (read "soft") lube. I don't get any appreciable leading.
YMMV....

[Recluse]

Ok guys what about nose deformation from hitting the feed ramp?

You Think nose deformation is a moot issue in 45 acp accuracy? In rifle rounds I sure wouldn't accept the flat spot in the nose that I am seeing in my post-feeding 45 rounds.

???


Nose deformation is not an issue unless you hit them with a 3lb hammer!
Accuracy is determined mostly by the last full diameter band of the bullet.
The seal between the bullet and the barrel crown must break evenly or all
is a waste of time. Summed up the crown and the bullet base must be perfect.

Dave C.

+1

There was an article some years back, I think in Handloader, in which the author set out to prove that it was the base of the boolit that determined accuracy far more than the nose of the boolit.

He did gawd-awful things to the noses of those poor boolits ranging from scarring them with a file to clipping parts of the nose off with wire cutters--and he did it, if I recall correctly, with both handgun boolits and rifle boolits alike.

Then he loaded them with identical charges to the non-butchered boolits and fired them. No difference.

Seems impossible, but those were the results.

I did some testing myself after reading that with .45 ACP 200SWC and 158SWC in the .357 Magnum. Same results as the author.

Doesn't mean I intentionally set out to cast deformed noses, but it sure has me culling a whole lot less boolits that I cast for plinking.

:coffee:

[MtGun44]

The back is the steering end. The front is nearly irrelevant at reasonable ranges. It
will eventually cause a lower trajectory if mutilated a lot.

Bill

[ColColt]

I don't know how many boolits I've thrown back in the pot after sizing and I didn't get the boolit centered in the die. Bring down the ram to push said boolit into the die and it was hit off center taking a small chunk out of the nose...back it the pot. I'll remember all this next time that happens.

[pdawg_shooter]

Straight air cooled COWWs for me. It has worked since 1963. See no need to change now.

[searcher4851]

Bullet fit is much more important than bullet hardness. If the fit is correct, you can run a variety of different hardness lead with little problem.