Doesn't Anybody Drive A Ford

[OnHoPr]

I see a number of lubes with Dextron as an ingredient. Doesn't anybody drive a Ford? What is so special about Dextron? Is that all what boolit casters drive is Chevy's? Will any ATF work in Dextron's place for a lube ingredient? I'm about to used Type F because it is what I have on hand.

[alamogunr]

I hope so because when I was gathering up the stuff for Ben's Red, I just got a quart of Auto Zone transmission fluid that was specified for older cars. I don't know if Dexron II or III are available now. Most reprints of Ed's Red and other homemade bore cleaners specify Dexron because that is what was available back when first published.

[waksupi]

I'd wait for Felix to chime in on this. I think the Dexron has the properties of whale oil.

[Marlin Junky]

The newer Mercon is OK but the Type F ATF for older Fords had friction modifiers which actually increased friction to limit (or prevent?) torque converter (is that right, motorheads?) slippage. Instead of looking for Mercon, I just use the latest derivation of Dexron (no "t" in there) which would be Dexron-6 (for the year 2006). I'm assuming the ATF is evolving into something better each time there is a revision.

MJ

[Dan Cash]

I tried some universal hydraulic fluid used in tractors and loader hydraulics. Seem to work just fine but a lot if it is not red.

[HangFireW8]

Just stopped driving my last Ford and hope to never drive one again.

[Recluse]

Will any ATF work in Dextron's place for a lube ingredient? I'm about to used Type F because it is what I have on hand.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Type F will absorb into the lead, then when fired the gas-cutting separates the antimony from the lead and tin and since the antimony is the "hardness" factor in the boolit, you'll pit your barrel to Hell and back.

>

>

Once the pitting happens, you'll have to firelap it except with a compound to remove the pitted antimony. The compound is called Zerchristium and it's used in the aircraft industry to strengthen the titanium "bathtubs" that are forged around the engine and crew compartments on the Pave Low HH-53 USAF SOG choppers. It's expensive as hell, has a hazmat fee that is almost the price of a new gun (you might be even better off simply replacing the barrel--be cheaper in some instances).

>

>

But the real problem with the compound is that it is almost impossible to get completely out of your fingers and fingernails and gun-owners and boolit-casters being what we are, at some point you'll reach down to scratch your privates and then your Johnson will ALSO get pitted and THAT will mean a trip to the urologist--which under Obamacare will damned sure cost you more than a new gun, lapping compound AND the proper type of transmission fluid you should've used in the first place.

Think about that before you just go willy-nilly changing up the sacred order of ingredients.

:coffee:

[colt1960]

Gm baby all the way. Ha!

[runfiverun]

:lol:
wow jd.

mercon is a man made replacement for sperm whale oil.
type-F atf is desirable in many instances, a higher friction lube is pretty dang useful.
poor o.p.

[btroj]

Now I know what happened to the old Johnson..

I just buy store brand ATF. I don't look beyond those 3 letters. Somehow it just works......

[DeanWinchester]

I used to drive Fords, the I bought a Toyota and found out you can actually have a vehicle that you don't have to work on all the time.
Americans used to build the best cars in the world. .......used to.


As far as the tranny fluid goes, I bought a couple of quarts specifically for my boolit lube. May as well buy what e recipe calls for.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

most of the atf i have seen in the past 20 years was dexron mercon and we used it in fords and chevys

but if you want it i have a can of Target brand type F transmission fluid in the foil and paper can you can have , that i cleaned out of grandpas garage after he died.

as for driving i have a ford and a chevy they break just about as often as each other but so much less than the dodge i had.

[alamogunr]

I guess I'm going to have to look and see what I bought. I sure didn't see any Dexron on the shelf. Do you have to go to a GM dealer to find it?

Like DeanWinchester I bought a Toyota Avalon in '96, drove it 200K. Traded for an '06 and am well on my way to another 200K. Only problems have been other drivers don't watch where they are backing and turning.

[winelover]

Another Chevy Guy here. Went into town yesterday and discovered that the Classic Chevy Club of North Arkansas was holding a car show. Took care of the errands and went back home and fired up the 1972 Chevelle SS and headed back. After the show, stopped at Cbricks place and found him busting his butt building a retaining wall. Left after a quick visit, before he put but this broken down body to work.

Winelover

[cbrick]

Another hijacked thread . . . :mrgreen: Here is what Winelover found me in the middle of.

70315

[btroj]

Wow, where did you find all those rocks that are the same shape and size?

I know little enough about vehicles and such that ATF is ATF to me

[44man]

I would have left fast too! Looks like some heavy work Rick.
Looks like you are getting help from aliens like the pyramids! [smilie=s:

[Bigslug]

What is so special about Dextron? Is that all what boolit casters drive is Chevy's?

There is a social/economic factor at work. Once a shooter buys a GM vehicle, he spends so much money fixing it that he can no longer afford factory ammo or jacketed bullets, and thus is forced into casting. He can't afford store-bought boolit lube either. Necessity being the mother of invention, lubes got invented by using the materials on hand. Catch-basins placed under leaky transmissions and differentials provided the first ingredients for automotive product-based lubes.

I'm not sure if I was cheated in life or not - the fact that my family has driven little but reliable Toyotas since I was seven may be the reason I didn't get into casting until my late 30's.

[geargnasher]

Another hijacked thread . . . :mrgreen: Here is what Winelover found me in the middle of.

70315

Reminds me of Edward Leedskalnin's work.

Gear

[HangFireW8]

Americans used to build the best cars in the world. .......used to.


Still do. My two "Japanese" cars were made in the USA. My last 3 "American" cars were made in Canada. One guess as to which set had better power, handling, fuel economy and reliability.

Don't even get me started on all of Ford's bizzaro auto trans shift behavior. Maybe it's the ATF...

HF

[CENTEX BILL]

I would rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy.

Bill

[alamogunr]

While I like Toyota's, my pickup is a Ford. Fifteen years old and still perking along. I change the oil myself, every 6 mo. or 5K miles, whichever comes last. Since I retired the miles don't pile up very fast.

The only problem I have is with the dealer. It is a good thing that this truck has been very trouble free because if it wasn't I would have to find a decent Jack-Leg mechanic. Better that than the dealer.

I couldn't think of anything to keep on topic so I'll go along with the hijack.

[eveready]

Fords and only Fords, 2001 F150, 2000 Mustang, !967 Galaxie Hardtop 390 C.I. no problems with any of them.

[cbrick]

I would have left fast too! Looks like some heavy work Rick.
Looks like you are getting help from aliens like the pyramids! [smilie=s:


Reminds me of Edward Leedskalnin's work. Gear

Not a pyramid or a castle but I have sure learned what 20 year olds are for.

As for the question in the OP, yes some of us do drive Fords. Your choices are send your money overseas, buy a car from the gubment or drive a Ford. Yep, I drive a ford.

Rick

[jmort]

Nice looking segmental wall cbrick. Installed many of those segmental walls. If you prep the base properly, will outlast all of us and then some.

[HangFireW8]

As for the question in the OP, yes some of us do drive Fords. Your choices are send your money overseas, buy a car from the gubment or drive a Ford. Yep, I drive a ford.


My last 3 Fords were built in Canada. Ditto my last two Dodges. Well I guess that's not "overseas". My Honda and Toyota are made in the USA.

Yeah no more Government Motors for me, either.

[btroj]

My Toyota was made in Texas, does it get much ore American than that?

For our purposes in a lube or cleaning solvent does the type of ATF really matter?

[jmort]

"My Toyota was made in Texas, does it get much ore (sic) American than that?"
"My Honda and Toyota are made in the USA"

Well, buying a car from a Japanese car company now is buying "American" ???

[btroj]

It was built by American labor. Many "American" cars are built overseas.

The old union "American made" line doesn't work these days.

I don't pretend. I drive an American MADE truck. It is also very reliable. I am not pretending anything.

I am somewhat insulted that you imply that buying a "foreign made" car is why Obama got re-elected. He didn't get my vote. This line of logic actually sounds more like the line from the unions that support him.

[jmort]

I just don't get how buying a car from a Japanese car company qualifies for the statement that "Does it get much more American than that?" I say "no" As for the insult, that was not my intention, just don't get how buying a Japanese car, regardless of its origin, can somehow qualify as "buying American." I agree with the proposition that the UAW buried the U.S. auto makers.

[Airman Basic]

Now I don't know whether to buy a Ford made in Tokyo or a Toyota made in Tennessee.

[cbrick]

While assembled in the U.S. is a good thing ask yourself where most of the parts came from AND where do all of the profits go? Now how American is that Toyota?

Rick

[jmort]

From toilet paper NYT - but it interesting nonetheless. Click on most any car you want and you find out where the car/truck was assembled and where the transmission and engine were made.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html

[HangFireW8]

While assembled in the U.S. is a good thing ask yourself where most of the parts came from AND where do all of the profits go? Now how American is that Toyota?

According to the label on my Honda, 75% American, 25% imported.

In other news, the Japanese 5-speed transmission in my Canadian built Dodge truck is about the only thing in it that hasn't given me any trouble.

I rang the buy American bell for decades and I'm just tired of getting screwed by foreign built **** with American name plates on it. I'm not talking Fiesta's I'm talking Taurus and such.

When is the last time an American company designed an engine? Just how American is your car now?

HF

[Cmemiss]

Yeah, the UAW really designed some crappy cars, remember the ones you had to pull the engine in order to change a spark plug, and those rusting out rear windows the union workers designed. They really killed the US the auto industry.

[PuppetZ]

Now how American is that Toyota?

Somehow very. See for yourself

70401

I wont pretend that all the capitals stay in the US but the company provide very good job for a lot of americans family.

[mpmarty]

1972 Dodge pickup, 1977 Dodge 3/4 ton Pickup, 1969 Plymouth Barracuda, and our two favorites: 1990 and '95 SAAB turbos.

Edit to add: Almost forgot our family snowmobile: 1989 Chevy Suburban

[btroj]

My Tundra was made with 75 percent American made parts and was assembled in the US. As for profits, with a global economy does that really matter any more? How many "American" businesses are owned in large part by foreign nationals? Is Chevy stock owned solely by Americans?

I bought with my brain, not my heart. My brain said buy Toyota. Matter of fact, so did my mechanic and many others I asked. Good enough for me.

[OnHoPr]

Well it is starting to sound like all the automotive companies have taken a turn for the AMC structure just in a globalization structure.

[freebullet]

1978-79 f-350 with a 460 are some of best trucks on planet earth to this day. Simply bulletproof drivetrains serviceable for many lifetimes. They absolutely do not make them like that any more.

[uscra112]

I would rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy.

Bill

Having worked on both Ford and GM powertrain projects for a Tier One equipment supplier, +1000

A year or so after I retired my old boss begged me to come back to help with GM projects. Offered me silly money, and I said NO.

And I'm seriously wondering what Recluse is smoking. :veryconfu

Type F is only for much older Ford xmsns. At least 10-15 years ago they got together and agreed on a common spec for ATF.

[geargnasher]

My Tundra was made with 75 percent American made parts and was assembled in the US. As for profits, with a global economy does that really matter any more? How many "American" businesses are owned in large part by foreign nationals? Is Chevy stock owned solely by Americans?

I bought with my brain, not my heart. My brain said buy Toyota. Matter of fact, so did my mechanic and many others I asked. Good enough for me.

Yup. My advice for many years to those looking to buy a vehicle is to go to the nearest Toyota dealership and buy the model that suits their needs. If you happen to need a 4x4, crew-cab, diesel dually, buy Ford Superduty and have a 12-valve Cummins installed in it.

My first vehicle is a 1946 Chevrolet pickup (I say IS because I still own it and after the 240,000 miles that I put on it, it still runs, even though I haven't registered it in over 15 years), a vehicle that Americans came home and built the year after they finished either rescuing or whipping the butts of every major country on the globe. It's a fine machine. My wife drives a Toyota because she's the most important person in the world to me, and I really don't give a damn who made the best vehicle our money can buy. Americans have always had the best opportunity to make great vehicles, if they blew that chance, then tough cookies. I also own Japanese guns with Winchester logos on them, because the Japanese made them better.

You misguided patriots should be thanking your lucky stars that countries other than the USA have the intestinal fortitude, the vision, the ethics, and the desire to compete with our products, because if they didn't, we'd be stuck in the union monopoly having to buy their trash. Remember the Pinto, the Dart, and the Chevy II? That's what we had before there were very many imports to choose from. The VW Beetle was at one time both the best and cheapest transportation available, and almost every American family owned one. America's response was to build the Corvair.

So you can "Ford vs. Chevy" all you want, but to do so is to miss a bigger point.

Gear

[runfiverun]

the chevy-II was a great car after you replaced the wiring front end rear end engine and transmission.

[winelover]

Yeah, the UAW really designed some crappy cars, remember the ones you had to pull the engine in order to change a spark plug, and those rusting out rear windows the union workers designed. They really killed the US the auto industry.

Just goes to show, you haven't a clue about the auto industry. The UAW has no input, what so ever on the design of an automobile. Any and all designs flaws, can attributed to the white collar sector (salary / management). Ask me how I know. I was a UAW pipefitter for 37 years with GM. Ten years of that, I was assigned to the Design staff at the General Motors Technical Center. I repaired, among other things, Don Cherry (head of the design staff) porcelain throne. Ran into Bob Lutz more than once. Never once did anyone ask the lowly hourly worker for our input.

Winelover

[HangFireW8]

1978-79 f-350 with a 460 are some of best trucks on planet earth to this day. Simply bulletproof drivetrains serviceable for many lifetimes. They absolutely do not make them like that any more.

460 huh? How many miles to a quart of oil?

[alamogunr]

I had a Mercury(senior moment. I can't remember the model) about that time with a 460 engine. As I recall it got between 9 and 12 mpg. Great road car. If you got it up to speed, you hoped you didn't have to stop quickly.

[detox]

2014 Silverado

[freebullet]

My 460's never used oil. I did replace the pan gasket do to a leak, didn't even have to jack up the truck or engine. My last classic ford was a 77 f-250 with a 460 & c6/205 it got 12 loaded unloaded nice & easy or pedal to metal. It was set up fer plowing. Best plow rig I ever owned. Never got stuck, but pulled out or pushed through all other brands newer older & of the same era. Had a 78 with a 460 that I swapped a 5 spd in and it got 15mpg. Had a Lincoln mark 5 with a 460 it had hiway gears and on the hiway it would get 16mpg but only 11 in town. None of them ever burned oil or failed me. I can rebuild the entire truck 8 times fer what a 2014 city boy Chevy pick up cost. I was never worried bout scratches dings or dents with those ole tanks either, in fact I bet you wouldn't drive that purty 14 Chevy down my favorite roads. Why is tis in the boolit lube forum?

[GaryN]

Remember the Pinto, the Dart, and the Chevy II?

How about the Pacer?? Had to be the ugliest car ever until the new boxes started coming out.

I have had three ford trucks. First one had 150000 on it when I sold it. The second has 349000 and still runs. The last one has 238000 and is my daily work truck. I love the old straight six cylinder 300ci .

[Wingnutt]

I drive a Ford.

Had a 1976 1/2 ton. 302-3 speed, headers, hi-rise intake, Elgin torquer cam, Elderbroc AFB 4-barrel. Loved that little Ford small-block.

Had a 1979 E350 van with 460...same. hi-rise intake, Elgin torquer cam, and Holly 780 Double-pumper. Took it to the mountains camping. I passed everything on the passes. Love that Ford.
,
Now I got another E350 with a V10. Great piece a machinery.......

I use Dexron in my lube.

Why is tis in the bullet lube forum?

[waksupi]

I drive a Ford.

Had a 1976 1/2 ton. 302-3 speed, headers, hi-rise intake, Elgin torquer cam, Elderbroc AFB 4-barrel. Loved that little Ford small-block.

Had a 1979 E350 van with 460...same. hi-rise intake, Elgin torquer cam, and Holly 780 Double-pumper. Took it to the mountains camping. I passed everything on the passes. Love that Ford.
,
Now I got another E350 with a V10. Great piece a machinery.......

I use Dexron in my lube.

Why is tis in the bullet lube forum?

Don't worry, it will wander back on topic eventually!

[Finster101]

Don't worry, it will wander back on topic eventually!

At least you hope so. Seems everyone enjoys bashing American cars too much, yet bitch about buying Tula primers cause they are foreign made.

[hendere]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Type F will absorb into the lead, then when fired the gas-cutting separates the antimony from the lead and tin and since the antimony is the "hardness" factor in the boolit, you'll pit your barrel to Hell and back.

>

>

Once the pitting happens, you'll have to firelap it except with a compound to remove the pitted antimony. The compound is called Zerchristium and it's used in the aircraft industry to strengthen the titanium "bathtubs" that are forged around the engine and crew compartments on the Pave Low HH-53 USAF SOG choppers. It's expensive as hell, has a hazmat fee that is almost the price of a new gun (you might be even better off simply replacing the barrel--be cheaper in some instances).

>

>

But the real problem with the compound is that it is almost impossible to get completely out of your fingers and fingernails and gun-owners and boolit-casters being what we are, at some point you'll reach down to scratch your privates and then your Johnson will ALSO get pitted and THAT will mean a trip to the urologist--which under Obamacare will damned sure cost you more than a new gun, lapping compound AND the proper type of transmission fluid you should've used in the first place.

Think about that before you just go willy-nilly changing up the sacred order of ingredients.

:coffee:

I have no idea if all that is true, and I've never owned anything other than a Chevy, but I'm afraid to even ride in a Ford now.

[BAGTIC]

FORD = Fix Or Repair Daily

[bradh]

BAGTIC has it wrong! FORD = First On Race Day
Or you can buy a Chevy which is FORD spelt backwards:
DROF = Driver Returns On Foot

[AZ-JIM]

Yep, hijacked
Yep, sorry to the op
Yep , used to be a chevy guy
Yep, I drive an American made Toyota with American made parts
Yep, Duramax is an Isuzu motor, Japanese design, probably made in Mexico, and assembled in Canada....how American is your Chevy? Dont get me started on the Bailout money which probably came from China.
We have had 2 Fords, a 2001 v6 mustang, probably the biggest *** car we owned and a 1998 thunderbird, that was a good car, I regret selling that one and like I said I was a chevy guy.

Dont know about the atf, I dont have any trouble finding Dexron, my last batch of Bens Red seems to be working well.

az-jim

[sundog]

2012 F250 SUPER DUTY King Ranch (diesel). Mighty fine piece of equipment. It's my 'tug' for my 33' RV.

My first vehicle was a 1946 Willys CJ2A. Another mighty fine piece of equipment.

Right now my daily driver is a 1999 Ranger, 4-banger, 5-speed. It's been a good vehicle, still is at 150K.

[mold maker]

F - found
O - on
R - road
D - dead
I've owned 3 fords. Never got service from them. Most all the Chevys had well over 100,000 when traded. Only had 1 Chevy that was a problem.
Lots wont drive anything but Fords, but not me.

[grampa243]

atf type F is for old(antique) fords
most any auto parts store should have on hand Dexron/Mercon which is dexron I;II;and III. there is also dexron VI a full syn.

by the way the new fords use Mercon of some type they make up to mercon V now.

[bruce381]

ATF Ford had NO friction modifiers to make it shift smooth so the racers used it cause it did not add slip
ATF Dexron II,III are no longer licensed anyting called that could be anyhting.
ATF Mercon is old ford and will work in most all backward applications for Dex II,III

ATF Mercon 5 is newest Ford
ATF Dexron 6 is newest GM
Both are long life oils with a good portion of either SYN or GPII,III oils
Generally the newer oils are syn based long drian and very shear stable, all this is for longer/consistent shift feel.
When you pay 30-50K for a car the mfg wants it to feel smooth

Also trans fluids are going thinner and more shear stable so are motor oils as in 0w15.

[alamogunr]

The ATF that I found at AutoZone is called "Dex/Merc. The label says it is suitable where Dexron II , III and Mercon are specified.

Also: "Do not use in GM vehicles after model year 2005 and Ford vehicles after 2006.

I assumed this would be suitable for Ben's Red. Haven't made a batch yet because spring chores interfered.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Yes, but can it be used in Ed's Red? My stash is running low.

BvT

[jmorris]

Another drift but this Ford, even though it has a Chevy still uses type F...

[cal50]

According to the label on my Honda, 75% American, 25% imported.

In other news, the Japanese 5-speed transmission in my Canadian built Dodge truck is about the only thing in it that hasn't given me any trouble.

I rang the buy American bell for decades and I'm just tired of getting screwed by foreign built **** with American name plates on it. I'm not talking Fiesta's I'm talking Taurus and such.

When is the last time an American company designed an engine? Just how American is your car now?

HF


Most vehicles have parts from various countries of origin, the key point is where is the company headquarters and most of its profits go and benefit. The "Big 3" GM, Ford and Chrysler all are American based companies and the bulk if their sales / revenue end up in North America operations in some fashion hopefully employing American workers that then in turn spends their wages in the local community and pays taxes. Even Harley Davidson has a smattering of Asian parts ( Showa shocks, carbs,electronics, etc).

I have owned a mix of GM and Ford vehicles and my current beater work car is a 2003 Focus wagon with 193,000 miles and a 2004 with 145,000. My retired Aerostar had 178,000. My 1991 GM 3/4 ton pickup went 180,000 without issue and my 1st new car was a 1979 Monty Carlo with the 267 V8 and was one of the best vehicles ever owned.

At one time the argument for Asian vehicle quality being better was statistically true but not today. Anyone that says or thinks otherwise is lying to themselves. A lot of vehicles use the same suppliers and are build VERY similar. Kudos to Ford for not taking the government bailout welfare that put them at an unfair market advantage against its competitors.

One of my biggest pet peeves is several of my neighbors are teachers ( 8 ) and all of them drive Honda's or Toyota's. A LOT of autoworkers (Ford) live in my community, have good paying jobs and pay large amounts of property taxes. The same teachers that want me to vote for all levy increases never bat an eye about how they spent their money and most of it leaving the community by choosing a foreign vehicle. I know most of them feel autoworkers are overpaid and I feel the same way about some teachers and they are on the public dime. All autoworkers wages and benefits come form the retail sale of the items they build and market.

[AZ-JIM]

At one time the argument for Asian vehicle quality being better was statistically true but not today. Anyone that says or thinks otherwise is lying to themselves.


If this was the case then why is the Toyota Corolla one of the worlds best selling vehicles? Im just sayin....

az-jim

[btroj]

When we were in Spith Africa there were many European and Asian cars, very, very few American made cars.

Tells me something

[cal50]

If this was the case then why is the Toyota Corolla one of the worlds best selling vehicles? Im just sayin....

az-jim

Likely the same reasons Obama was elected.
People don't always make the best choice every time.

If someone wants a Toyota more power to them. I prefer to make American made cars & trucks my 1st choice when buying.

[MT Gianni]

When we were in Spith Africa there were many European and Asian cars, very, very few American made cars.

Tells me something

Did it tell you that our boycott of SA for many years lead them to not have our products available along with any tradition, history and dealerships?

[cal50]

When we were in Spith Africa there were many European and Asian cars, very, very few American made cars.

Tells me something

American company listed as #3 is good to see.


http://www.cars.co.za/mobile/motoring_news/South_African_new_car_sales_for_March_2013/1202/

[retread]

Still have about a half case of Chevron ATF that I bought about 10 years ago at Costco. Says Dexron III replacing DexronII on the label. Haven't seen any new Chevron ATF's to say it is still the same.

[AZ-JIM]

Likely the same reasons Obama was elected.
People don't always make the best choice every time.

If someone wants a Toyota more power to them. I prefer to make American made cars & trucks my 1st choice when buying.

Well, I sure in the hell didnt vote for " that guy" and as far as people making the best choices, in voting no they dont, usually using last minute narrow minded decision making that suits them in the moment and not whats best for the country in the long term. As far as vehicles go, whats best for them just that, maintainance, reliability, price, resale value etc. Im pretty certain that the Texans that built my Tundra are American and that my purchase stimulated theirs and the countrys economy.

az-jim

[btroj]

My Tundra was made in Texas- how much more American you want?

If you mean UAW then say so. Don't give me the "American made" BS.

[jmort]

My Turban was made in Texas by an Indian company. All the profits went to India but I look good at the 7-11.

[HangFireW8]

Most vehicles have parts from various countries of origin, the key point is where is the company headquarters and most of its profits go and benefit. The "Big 3" GM, Ford and Chrysler all are American based companies and the bulk if their sales / revenue end up in North America operations in some fashion hopefully employing American workers that then in turn spends their wages in the local community and pays taxes. Even Harley Davidson has a smattering of Asian parts ( Showa shocks, carbs,electronics, etc).

I have owned a mix of GM and Ford vehicles and my current beater work car is a 2003 Focus wagon with 193,000 miles and a 2004 with 145,000. My retired Aerostar had 178,000. My 1991 GM 3/4 ton pickup went 180,000 without issue and my 1st new car was a 1979 Monty Carlo with the 267 V8 and was one of the best vehicles ever owned.

At one time the argument for Asian vehicle quality being better was statistically true but not today. Anyone that says or thinks otherwise is lying to themselves. A lot of vehicles use the same suppliers and are build VERY similar. Kudos to Ford for not taking the government bailout welfare that put them at an unfair market advantage against its competitors.

Compare the bizarro downshift and self-throttle behavior of any Ford FWD versus any Toyota or Honda and then get laughed out of the house with that arguement.

[merlin101]

460 huh? How many miles to a quart of oil?

I've got a 460 in a motorhome and went from NY to Vagas & back (6000mi) and used 1 qt of oil, And I don't even like Ferds!:lol:

[cal50]

My Tundra was made in Texas- how much more American you want?

If you mean UAW then say so. Don't give me the "American made" BS.

I clearly said American / American based companies.
Note I made no reference to union or non union because assembly wages and build process is virtually identical.

If you are happy driving a foreign car or truck (and you know what I mean) then great.

[lka]

I have

2 rangers
1 f150
1 f250
1 Expedition
1 cobra


I am a big ford guy, I have had many rangers explorers and f series and they are pretty good. the little rangers make great company trucks they keep rolling as long as you keep a little oil in them :D

I won't buy gmc they took the handout! And I have to have American trucks (I'm sure a large portion of ford is over seas now-and-days)

[cal50]

Compare the bizarro downshift and self-throttle behavior of any Ford FWD versus any Toyota or Honda and then get laughed out of the house with that arguement.

I laugh at assinine blanket statements or assumptions.

[cajun shooter]

I'm 66 years old and this argument has been going on since I was old enough to understand what was being said. It is true of many products. It seems that everyone wants what they have to be the best.
My reason for not buying any vehicles made in Japan is simple. Dec. 7Th 1941, my family members all served and some did not return.
I become surprised at the people who say that their Jap vehicle was made in the states. This is true on some but not all vehicles. They are also made with "PARTS" that were made in Japan!! The Japanese are not all bad people and it was their government that took them to war. But they have enjoyed a very rich and profitable time by making all the vehicles that Americans drive.
It was true that at one time many of the vehicles made in the USA were far behind in craftsmanship. That is no longer true. If you follow your directions and use "Preventive Maintenance" then your American vehicle will give you a good service life. My 2005 GMC Sierra Diesel has only had to have the batteries replaced since it was purchased. Oh I have also changed the wiper blades as the Louisiana sun takes a toll on them.
My son has a car business on the side as a hobby and he buys and sells nothing but imports or cars that are not made by the Big 3. He has to purchase parts for them and have transmissions rebuilt along with the same parts that go bad from use on cars made in the USA.
When you buy that Jap car you may be helping out some Americans but you are helping Japan much more as they build those parts.
The cars from Japan had to be built here for several reasons and they all had to do with the bottom line. If they did not make so many cars here the taxes that would be levied against them would be three times as much. They would lose money and go broke.
The USA has taken all of it's manufacturing jobs to other countries and that will come back to bite us one day. I won't be here but my grandchildren will and I hate to think what will happen to them. Later David

[cal50]

For the foreign car lovers the irony is an American company ( Ford ) has the best hybrid available that beats out the Lexus & the Honda which were ranked #2 & #3.
You dont stay in business for over 100 years by making junk.

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-hybrid-car-2013/


http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Hybrid-Cars/

[lka]

For the foreign car lovers the irony is an American company ( Ford ) has the best hybrid available that beats out the Lexus & the Honda which were ranked #2 & #3.
You dont stay in business for over 100 years by making junk.

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-hybrid-car-2013/


http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Hybrid-Cars/

I have never owned a foreign Vehicle, the Toyota trucks seem to last and are nice, I wouldn't buy a hybrid, if I did I wold need to buy an Obama sticker and that's not going to happen anytime soon,,,

[alamogunr]

I'm on both sides of this discussion. Our car is a Toyota Avalon(our 2nd) and we have had no trouble at all from it. We tend to keep a vehicle for at least 10 years since we started with Toyota's. My pickup is a 15 year old F150. Also no trouble. I'm in the market now for a new pickup and really like the Toyota's. I won't go near the Ford dealership. The one time I had this truck there for repair they left it in worse shape than before. When I took it back for correction, I was told it would cost over $600 to fix. It just brought back memories of all the times over 50 years that I got the shaft from American automobile dealers.

[cal50]

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Full-Size-Pickup-Trucks/


Looks like the American truck market is pretty solid.

[HangFireW8]

One of my biggest pet peeves is several of my neighbors are teachers ( 8 ) and all of them drive Honda's or Toyota's. A LOT of autoworkers (Ford) live in my community, have good paying jobs and pay large amounts of property taxes. The same teachers that want me to vote for all levy increases never bat an eye about how they spent their money and most of it leaving the community by choosing a foreign vehicle. I know most of them feel autoworkers are overpaid and I feel the same way about some teachers and they are on the public dime. All autoworkers wages and benefits come form the retail sale of the items they build and market.

My pet peeve is people who don't understand the benefit to our economy of domestically made "import" marques while driving around Canadian made cars and Mexican made pickup trucks running Japanese designed engines.

[Boondocker]

I have

2 rangers
1 f150
1 f250
1 Expedition
1 cobra


I am a big ford guy, I have had many rangers explorers and f series and they are pretty good. the little rangers make great company trucks they keep rolling as long as you keep a little oil in them :D

I won't buy gmc they took the handout! And I have to have American trucks (I'm sure a large portion of ford is over seas now-and-days)

Myself likewise, I will patronize an American company that takes care of itself, one I don'nt have to get buy off votes with my tax dollars. That said I am still following the atf debate. Ford tough baby!!!!!!!!!!!! As a mechanic for 30 years I love chevies and dodges, they made me alot of mulla with the same repeat problems year after year. Just sayin! Just like you like winnies and I like remmies the debate goes on, to each there own.

[cal50]

Ford did not cost the taxpayers (us) a single cent for the bailout BS if that matters.

Not a lot of American companies still in business over +100 years and still going.

[HangFireW8]

For the foreign car lovers the irony is an American company ( Ford ) has the best hybrid available that beats out the Lexus & the Honda which were ranked #2 & #3.
You dont stay in business for over 100 years by making junk.

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-hybrid-car-2013/


http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Hybrid-Cars/

Ford used that EPA data for this smaller lighter vehicle...

http://consumerist.com/2013/08/15/epa-revises-fuel-mileage-numbers-for-ford-c-max-in-wake-of-consumer-reports-test/

[AviatorTroy]

Now this stuff always makes someone mad... ;););)

79260

79261

[AviatorTroy]

And as for Fords, its always been in my DNA to avoid GM products like the plague. I was always a Ford guy, had a 78 F100, several Mustangs, a T-Bird, and a Ranger. That being said, my brother currently has a Focus which he bought new is less than 5 years old, and has blown up a radiator, eaten a water pump, gone through 2 wheel bearings, eats rear tires (due to the fact that it was designed with not enough range in the rear toe in adjustment to properly align the rear end). Oh and to top it off neither door latch works from the outside because the mechanism on both doors disintegrated inside and he has to either leave a window down for crawl through the back hatch cause none of us have had time to work in it.

That car is a true turd and my wife has forbidden me forever owning another Ford, its that bad.

Oh well, really loving my '10 Ram 1500 Quad Cab. :)

[Petrol & Powder]

Ok. so I'll admit that I skipped from the first page of this thread to the last (which gives one an unusual perspective) but I did turn wrenches for a living for a little while in a previous life. Back in the old days there was Dexron, Dexron II and the Ford stuff like type CJ or ATF type F. If you had a GM, AMC or Chrysler it was Dexron II. If you had a Ford, well it depended on what year, tranny and sometimes moon phase but... the Ford ATF stuff was considered better by a lot of transmission guys because of the way it shifted. I think the bands in the Ford transmissions used a different type of friction material. After the late 70's most American stuff was just Dexron II or Dexron III. Then came the wonky Chrysler ATF +4 and the imports with the other synthetics.
The GM Turbo 400 used Dexron II and was totally bullet proof. The Chrysler A727 Torqueflite could take any abuse as long as the fluid was clean. I saw Ford C6's that would outlast the car they were in and I saw C6's that disintegrated for no apparent reason. I never understood that Ford stuff. So, for the OP, it depends on which tranny you're talking about.

[alamogunr]

I just bought a Toyota Tundra and my 15 YO F150 is for sale. Granted I never put much strain on the F150, but it never gave me any trouble. The only problems I had were those covered by recall. One of those recalls left me with more of a problem than the recall covered. I returned to the dealer and they wanted to charge me over $500 to correct. The mechanic that checked the problem disconnected the warning buzzer that indicated leaving the key in the ignition and I decided to live with it. Obviously, I never returned to that dealer again.

My experience with Toyota's has been nothing but good. We kept the first, an Avalon for over 10 years and the second Avalon is 7 years old on its way to 10 or 11. This influenced my purchase of the Tundra. I'm retired so this is probably my last truck. Looking forward to at least 15 years.

[jmort]

Japanese car/trucks work well. I'm sure you will like the Japanese Tundra. I have never purchased a Japanese car/truck and never will. At least the Korean cars are giving the Japs a run for their $$$. I'll stick with Ford from now on.

[Airman Basic]

As the man said, " I don't know whether to buy a Ford made in Tokyo or a Toyota made in Tenn."

[jmort]

You want the profits to go to an American Company or to Japan?

[Airman Basic]

You want the profits to go to an American Company or to Japan?

I think I like American jobs.

[jmort]

"I think I like American jobs"

Thank you Captain obvious. The "My Rice Burner was made in the USA" drones are clueless. Not in terms of buying what they want and expecting a good product, I respect that. But this idiotic nonsense, "made in America" ignores the fact that the real $$$ is going to Japan or wherever. It is foolish to rationalize buying the Jap car on the grounds that it was made "here." How many line workers does it take to equal the pay of the CEO's of Honda, Toyota, Nissan, et al ? Just keep it real, don't play pretend. Be proud of your Jap car/truck for what is is and not what it is not, an American car/truck.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/07/american-made-index-which-automakers-affect-the-most-us-workers.html

[Kull]

I worked for Ford for a little over a decade, probably why I drive a 30 something year old Volkswagen. All kidding aside though me personally I'd pick a Ford over anything from GM or Chrysler, mostly out of familiarity. Between myself, my wife, and my daughter the number one make of vehicle that keeps showing up in the driveway are Toyota's.

Every manufacturer has their issues though, some are just better at keeping the general public in the dark about whatever issues they do have. For example take the Toyota unintended acceleration recall. Seemed to me like Toyota caught a lot of flak for coming out about a problem that wasn't that big of a deal honestly. If it does take off like a bat out of hell I can always turn the key off, slam on the brake, whatever. Compare that to the early Focus spindle nut recall. Left rear wheel, spindle nut is right hand thread....no keeper, cotter pin, nothing. Not much you can do when the thing comes off and passes you going down the highway. I don't remember seeing that all over the news.

As far as buying American vs buying Imports the lines are so blurred it's not even funny. You could make a full time job out of figuring out who owns what and how much. Lots of models are the exact same vehicle with a different badge. Mercury Villager and Nissan Quest comes to mind.

[AviatorTroy]

"I think I like American jobs"

Thank you Captain obvious. The "My Rice Burner was made in the USA" drones are clueless. Not in terms of buying what they want and expecting a good product, I respect that. But this idiotic nonsense, "made in America" ignores the fact that the real $$$ is going to Japan or wherever. It is foolish to rationalize buying the Jap car on the grounds that it was made "here." How many line workers does it take to equal the pay of the CEO's of Honda, Toyota, Nissan, et al ? Just keep it real, don't play pretend. Be proud of your Jap car/truck for what is is and not what it is not, an American car/truck.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/07/american-made-index-which-automakers-affect-the-most-us-workers.html

But CEOs in Japan don't make 10,000 times the salary that their workers do, like US CEOs.

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/02/sizing-up-automotive-ceo-pay/

So one could argue that the profit of Japanese car companies is much better distributed throughout the company than the UAW jobs that American companies create. Of course don't even get me started on the high cost of doing business with the UAW due to highly inefficient labor, legacy health costs, etc, etc. Do you know why most of the Japanese factories are non union? Because they pay their employees well and treat them with respect.

Additionally I am pleased to see the Japanese outsourcing jobs to the US instead of the other way around, like Detroit auto companies outsource the assembly jobs to Canada, Mexico, and South America.

So, who's really clueless? I think your ideas are firmly rooted in the 1970s.

[jmort]

"Do you know why most of the Japanese factories are non union?"

Yes, because they are located in Right to Work States and save them a bundle. If you read the article/blog I linked, then you would understand my "ideas" - aka facts - are rooted in reality. When you buy the Jap car/truck all of the profits go to Japan. The numbers of "US" workers for the Jap auto makers are low compared to Ford and GM. Personally if I were buying a Toyota or BMW, I would rather have the real deal, from Japan or "Bavaria." I'll stick with Ford or even GM and do not dispute the quality issue. Toyotas make sense, especially for the Japanese.

[popper]

All auto manufacturers are world wide makers. Have been for > 50 yrs. The ones we call American made are just designed for the silly US buyers. Who knows where all the actual parts come from.

[Outpost75]

The last Ford I owned was a 1981 Escort, which self-destructed in a cascading failure driving up Christiansburg Mountain in Virginia on I81. The waterpump seized, shredded the timing belt, and then the pistons drove the valves through the head. I towed it to the junk yard and have never been in a Ford dealership since.

Since then I have driven Toyotas an average of 200,000 miles between trade-ins.

79320Banzai!

[popper]

Escort - English ford made in US. Capri - German ford made in US. Contour, a Capri with Escort motor & CVT tranny. What happened to the CVT transmission anyway. Then you have the mitsu/Isuzu/Colt?GM Omni/rabbit with Peugeot motor & I forget the trans. Don't think there's been a US car since the '70s.

[DxieLandMan]

Have 2 Fords. 1992 Explorer with over 260k miles on it and still going strong. Also, a 2010 Fusion with 85K on it. Fords are good. (Just to make it even, I also own 2 Chevrolets).

[starnbar]

The issue with unions in japan is there is almost a government decree against having one anyway. The average auto worker in japan gets paid a living wage but they are mostly living in Nissan or Honda apartment complexes there are very few workers who own their own home. You can sit in your own home and type on your computer and rant against the unions but that is something that the average line worker in japan will never realize in their entire lifetime.

[Walter Laich]

From all I read in the thread I have come to understand the following:
.
.
I can use 3-in-One oil in Ed's Red ;)

[alamogunr]

Well! I just signed the title to the F150 over to the buyer. I hope he gets as good service from it as I have. Admittedly, I never put any strain on it.

As I posted earlier, I now have a Toyota Tundra. I expect to drive it at least 15 years like I did the F150 unless mortality interferes. Then again the government may take away my driver's license due to old age and dementia.

[snoopy]

The only time you'll see me in a Ford is if I'm in the backseat handcuffed, oh wait maybe that's a Dodge. Chevy guy out of pure old fashioned sentimental reasons. Personally, don't see much diff in any of em', if they do what you need'em to do. Lemons in every brand New, Used, caveat emtor.

[unclogum bill]

Some where here I see the line saying Buy American, I am under the misconception that GM products ran to Canada and Ford products ran to Mexico. I do know I was shocked to see the assembly tag on the Ford Transport van read "Turkey". Really do we still make anything here or our we assembling parts (sometimes) , and not much more?.

[Pakprotector]

The Chrysler 727 takes Type F, or what ever F+ thing they're calling it now. They even tolerate life behind a 6BT-5.9 Cummins. I have a manual Cummins shipping crate, and a 727 shipping crate, both 2wd and are considered young in the neighborhood of 200k. I drive the manual one to work every day...and have since I got it nearly half a decade ago. Lemme see, I can do a water pump change in less time than it takes a new truck guy to get over the fright of opening the hood. No pulling body to service a turbo...stone knives and bearskins...and I can burn 50-50% diesel and ATF...or corn oil or...:)

This antimony 'thing' sounds fishy...oh yes indeed. Plausible I guess...but fishy IMO.

And to winelover, that UAW does indeed have input as to what and how stuff gets built. I have a UAW pancreas...aka Type 1, insulin-shootin' Diabetes. Oh yeah, I am Ford salaried, product development...:)
cheers,
Douglas

[bandit7.5]

The first ford I ever drove was a 1956 ford ranger station wagon. The last was 1994 ranger pickup. The transmissions fell out of all of them an the few in between.

[Old Dawg]

People have no problem filling with fuel tanks with fuel from foreign owned companies.

When America first started industrializing after the Civil War most of the financing was from foreigners especially the British.

What killed the American auto industry was a cocky arrogance. 1) It must be better because it's American. 2) We lead the world because we are better, when in fact we had cornered many markets because the rest of the world and our competition had been devastated by two World Wars. It was a seller's market and we were the only sellers left.

We used to make the best cars?? At one time the best printers did it with a hammer and chisel but they too lost out to new technology by resting on their laurels. It is not good enough to have once been the best. What are we now? In some industries we are still the best. Ironically those are the industries that are the most globally competitive. The other industries are an example of how protectionism breeds mediocrity.

[unclogum bill]

People have no problem filling with fuel tanks with fuel from foreign owned companies.

When America first started industrializing after the Civil War most of the financing was from foreigners especially the British.

What killed the American auto industry was a cocky arrogance. 1) It must be better because it's American. 2) We lead the world because we are better, when in fact we had cornered many markets because the rest of the world and our competition had been devastated by two World Wars. It was a seller's market and we were the only sellers left.

We used to make the best cars?? At one time the best printers did it with a hammer and chisel but they too lost out to new technology by resting on their laurels. It is not good enough to have once been the best. What are we now? In some industries we are still the best. Ironically those are the industries that are the most globally competitive. The other industries are an example of how protectionism breeds mediocrity. ...Thats one theory , mine is unions were a great thing , became corrupt, ability to fire for slow motion , poor performance overran their gains. Somebody saw cheap overseas labor without government restraint , and their factories took off. We trained there young and bright and they took it all home. Next time at a food store watch how slow some checkers move to get through the day. Overseas they would produce of be gone.

[Garyshome]

I am going to hijack this thread back! My wife drives a Hocus Focus! It doesn't use any oil, just rebuilt, got a pretty good deal on it too.

[unclogum bill]

[QUOTE=Garyshome;2456562]I am going to hijack this thread back! My wife drives a Hocus Focus! It doesn't use any oil, just rebuilt, got a pretty good deal on it too.[/QUOTE
Seeing that word rebuilt I wonder if anyone shares this experience. A good rebuild involves heating heads and driving out old valve guides. . Cheap and easy is to run something like a tap in them and drill them to size. Good for 40 thousand miles and then your blowing smoke. I was stupid and it cost me twice for I caught on.