1-20 Twist T/C Scout 50 cal. What to cast for this rifle?

[Whizzer]

So my wife and kids go together and buy this carbine for my birthday, see? It has been shot, but it is nearly flawless. Bore is shiny, no rust anywhere. I'm impressed with the build quality of this rifle.

I have 2 R.E.A.L molds that might fill the bill: a 50 cal Lee 2-cavity REAL in 250 grain and a 320 grainer combo mold, that will also throw a .490-ish round ball. So far, with pure lead, the 320's aren't filling out consistently, but that isn't actually my primary question...my casting is progressing and I *think* I can cast some shootable boolits.

With a 1-20 twist, I assume a round ball will be a tough (if not impossible) load to stabilize. So for a beginning smokepole stuffer, which of the two REALs would be the best choice, and what charge (of 2F Goex) would be a good starting point?

Any help is appreciated!

Stan

[marshall623]

I'd try the 320 over 80 gr FF, that 1-20 twist is fast in a ML , my brother has a White Mountain Carbine with the same twist and its picky about what it shoots-- 80gr FF and a 370 Maxi Ball is his load .

[wgr]

with 250 grain xtp bullets and sabot mine will do 11/2-2in at 100 yards all day. with maxie balls cast from a tc. mould it will do close to that. i shoot both bith 90 grains 2f goex. mine wo,nt shoot the real 250s worth a hoot

[mooman76]

With that fast of a twist I'd start out lower with the powder more like 50gr and work up. That fast of a twist if you push them too hard you'll loose accuracy sooner. I shot my 54 and it shot good and it has the 1/20 twist but I didn't push it hard and I only shot at 25 yards and don't count out the RBs yet. They should also work if you don't push them too hard either. A over powder wad seems to help on the guns with tight twists.

[starmac]

Just curious, what do you use for the over powder wad??

[Whizzer]

Over powder wad... Didn't think about that, but it makes sense, if I'm thinking right. Does it give the ball a little cushion, letting it grab the rifling better? At thicker wad might be better than a thin wad, if that is the function.

I don't yet know what I'm talking about here. I want to be clear. But I WILL cast my own bullets, unless they simply won't shoot.

(Heck, I've even returned to an old habit of making my own BP, and buying sabots at $$$$ doesn't appeal to me. I just won't work up a load with it until I figure out what I'm doing with Goex. I used to ram LOTS of rockets, but I've never graded "riced", ball-milled powder until recently, and I haven't quite got it down. Too many "fines" so far... I've read that consistency is the biggest challenge. I'm cooking another batch of Eastern Red Cedar charcoal as I'm typing. :shock:)

[johnson1942]

a 1.5 long cast bullets that slides down the bore with out being too tight but still goes down with out hammering it down. 30 to one would be best for the lead. grease grooved and lubed. .60 thousands wad between powder and base of bullet. 80 to 90 grains of 2f would work well. another bullet would be a paper patch bullet 8 thousands smaller than your top of the lands diam. an example is if your top of the lands are .502 than the pp bullet should be .494 diam. dry wrap two wraps of number nine paper plain 100 percent wood fiber is great. twist the tail and cut it off as close to base as you can. 1.5 long pure lead or 30 to 1, even 20 to 1 would work. because it is paper patch shoot 100 grains of 2f black at leaste to bump up. again use a .60 thousands fiber or poly wad between powder and the bullets base. the 1/20 twist isnt easy to work up a load with bullets that arent big. however bullets like i described above will turn that gun of yours into go to alaska gun that shoots very well. better put a good slip on pad over the butt stock of it. if their is a scope on it keep the eye back far enough so it dont get injured. its will recoil with above loads. use only black powder behind above loads and wipe between shots. have fun.

[Whizzer]

I have tin, but I was reluctant to add it for what I've read is that frontstuffers are supposed require a "pure" lead boolit. My pure lead roundballs (as pure as I have...roll roofing) cast just fine, but so far, the conicals are pretty comical. (Ha!) Tin would sure make fillout easier, but tin also adds just a smidgen of hardness, no?

Johnson1942, I don't know what you mean by 1.5 long cast bullet, sorry. 1.5 inches O.A.L.?? INCHES? REALLY?!? That would be a heavy sucker, and I don't have a mold. It'd top 600 grains wouldn't it? If that is what you mean, I can see recommending butt pad. It would kill at both ends--with a boolit that heavy over 90 grains of FFg! Maybe you meant something else.

[mooman76]

A tiny bit of tin won't make enough difference as far as hardness goes to hurt but will make a difference in letting the lead fill out better.

[nagantguy]

good post here I have been having a hard time with this as well pure lead doesn't fill out perfectly in my 250 REAL a little harder alloy makes some fine looking boolits but i've been worried they won't "fill out" upon firing. Good luck whizzer I plan to take my smoke pole out tomorrow and try both kinds. pure and "unpure" I also have a fairly fast twist 1 in 28. lastly what do you plan to use for lube?

[Whizzer]

Nagantguy, I had a Happy accident Saturday night.

In a BIG hurry planning to go shoot BP after Church the next morning, I decided to cast a few boolits for my Scout (50 cal roundballs and .50 Lee R.E.A.L.s in 320 grain) I turned my furnace (Lee 4-20) up to maximum temperature. I had been "away" all day Saturday and never had cast up enough lead for the outing. I needed to empty out some straight linotype I had been casting for ball milling media, and load up some "pure" lead, and it was already past midnight. Well I forgot to turn the pure lead melt back down and ended up casting WELL over 800 degrees. I got perfect fill out on the REALs with an absolutely shiny bullet, *almost* too pretty to shoot! The roundballs were good too, no tin added. I'll be waiting for your report after casting up some with a bit of tin added. I will go that route also. 800++ degrees is kinda ridiculous.

Anyhow, we had a blast and I'm hooked on this whole BP thing. My oldest son is too. My wife? meh..... My homemade black powder is awfully hot when loaded by weight. I think there are too many "fines" in the charge. But it seems to have noticeably more "felt" recoil than the FFg Wano I took along for comparison. I'm going to order some 304 Stainless Steel screens from McMaster Carr to grade it a little better. My BP is significantly less dense than Wano or Goex since it is damp "riced" after ball milling....like Fly and Brushhippie have chronicled, here and on other boards. I will make up Emmert's Lube with Beeswax, Olive Oil, and sodium free Crisco later on, but last night I just used T/C's Borebutter for the REALs and my homebrew .013" pillow-ticking patches under the roundballs.

Johnson1942 is helping me out with a little coaching. (Sorry your phone calls didn't come through last night!) I sure want to try my hand at paper patching and your help is MUCH appreciated.

90% of everything I've learned (which isn't all that much yet....) has come from this forum. It is a great resource.

I have officially "smelt the smoke."

Stan

[nagantguy]

Nice man my pinch of tin gave me real nice boolits. Didn't shoot em Sunday it was 30 and snowing plan on using 45/45/10 as lube.

[Whizzer]

Are you talking about 45% Lee Liquid Alox, 45% cooked down Johnson's Past Wax, 10% Mineral Spirits? (Recluse Lube, if you will....)

I love that stuff for smokeless, but have not read where anyone else has used it with Muzzleloading and Lee R.E.A.L.s. I have searched a little, but nothing so far. If you use it, and like it, please post back. If it doesn't make clean up any harder, and keeps the fouling soft, it might be a good choice, doubled or even triple coated. It dries sooo fast and is a non-tacky.

Stan

[Whizzer]

with 250 grain xtp bullets and sabot mine will do 11/2-2in at 100 yards all day. with maxie balls cast from a tc. mould it will do close to that. i shoot both bith 90 grains 2f goex. mine wo,nt shoot the real 250s worth a hoot

I re-read this thread and your post. Do you have the 1-20 twist on your Scout? I'd rather buy a maxie ball mold than shoot sabots. Paper patching has suddenly shown up on my radar as well. (Thanks, Roger!)

[idahoron]

Paper patching is a very good way to go. Most people that have tried it stick with it. Ron