S&W MP 45 trigger job?

[seagiant]

Hi,
Bought a S&W MP 45 today and the trigger is pretty heavy and gritty. I have a Glock 20 that I did a fluff and buff on and it is alot better and acceptable now. Has anyone done a trigger job on a MP here?

[scattershot]

I installed the Apex kit in mine, and it made a difference. The main impediment to a good trigger on the M&P series is the firing pin striker block. If you can take that out and polish it, you'll be most of the way home. There are YouTube videos that will show you how to get it out.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Thanks, there is a tutorial on reworking the sear and block. I will probably try that first with the factory parts. If I screw the pooch I can buy the Apex kit and replace everything. Sort of fun for me to try it first myself and it teaches you about the pistol. I did the 25 cent trigger job on my Glock 20 and it is really nice now!

[seagiant]

Hi,
Wow! Does not seem to be alot of M&P fans around here! I went ahead and worked on my pistol using the Burwell tutorial. It is not really that hard if you are used to doing some of your own work. It made a VERY pronounced improvement on the feel and weight of my trigger. I was going to go the APEX route but will probably wait now and put some more rounds thru the gun and see what it does.

I want to put some 10-8 Performance sights on and get it finely stippled as this might turn into a carry gun as I prefer the 45 ACP and this pistol is full size but slim and a little smaller than most full size 45's! To me anyway! Here is a link to the trigger job if someone wants to try it! http://www.burwellguns.com/M&Ptriggerjob1.htm

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg; I would shoot the thing for a while before making any big mods. I have found my Glocks needed about 800-1000 rounds to properly break in. By that time you should be used to shooting it and how it feels.

I usually deburr the plastic and remove all the sharp edges, and I usually find all of those sharp edges by fondling the gun in front of the TV for several hours. It will surprise you what you find.

That gun in the pic is a Chris Costa colaberation with ATEi. Remember in your AR thread I told you that if you saw Chris Costas or Travis Haley getting out of the Black Suburban,,,, to run!

Watch this one if you haven't already http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYrSFRkue3Y It expalins what they do to the guns.

Then watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOBIgU4eho

Good luck with your new toy.

I'm shooting IDPA and 3 gun tomorrow.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Yes! That is a PRO model also which I guess S&W made to go head to head with the Glock 35! My pistol is just a regular full size M&P with a 4.5 barrel. This pistol is really growing on me as it has ambi slide release,a mag catch that can be installed left or right and a sm,med,lg backstrap system! The trigger job is a little more than a fluff and buff as you are removing a little metal off the sear reset surfaces. However I'm glad I did it as the trigger was so heavy that my trigger finger was actually sore after shooting it at the range!

I had no FTF or FTE's what so ever and it was quite accurate to boot! My only gripe was the trigger which is much better now. As you suggested I plan on shooting it this week and see what I think. I have always believed that ANY defense pistol I have will have close to a 4lb trigger! Good luck at the shoot! Show those youngsters how it works!

[jmort]

I'm an M&P fan-boy. With the Apex trigger kit there is nothing better.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well, I'm going to try what I've got now after the mods! The APEX route is always open if I feel after some more shooting I'm missing something! I'm actually amazed how much better this trigger feels after what I did. Why don't the Engineers at S&W change things and listen to people actually using their pistol??? They are obviously not above copying somebody elses design!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yeah; it is 99 degrees here today so I didn't quite make that IDPA shoot. I usually shoot top 5 out of 10-20 people but today I would have barely made it home before heat stroke set in! Watching TV and playing on computer whihc is much cooler..

When you buff your trigger parts on a Glock you need to be aware that they are all plated with Electroless Nickle and then baked so they are hard. The plating is only .0005 or less thick so you need to be careful here. It would serve to reason that S&W uses a similar treatment on those parts.

I have gone ape polishing on several Glock triggers and the result was the thing was good for a hundred shots or so, then toast, cuz I went thru the plating. Luckily they are cheap parts.

Now I don't do anything but spring changes, as I got sick of having to buy and modify new triggers. On Glocks there is very little noticable difference between one that has been buffed and one that is stock. I change the springs out with one of Brownells 4lb Spring Kits which includes the trigger spring the striker spring and the firing pin safety spring. Results are night and day.

I would bet Brownells has a similar kit for the M&P also. They are around $12.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Thanks for the insight and info! I'll check on the springs. My pistol feels really good dry firing anyway. Real shooting is a little different but I didn't make it to the range either! My mother and sister came over for breakfast and I ended up cooking and waiting on three women! Mothers Day a-go-go for me! If the sear and striker go south down the road I will get the APEX hard sear and a new striker! I'm going to order the 10-8 Performance sights tomorrow! Here's a pick of the model I bought in 45ACP!

[freebullet]

I had an mnp9 for awhile, I picked it up cheap used from a pawn shop. It fit my hand so nice in fact I would say better than any other plastic gun I ever tried. It was 100% reliable. The trigger was the reason it never became a keeper, they missed the mark. I don't want to have to "do" anything to a carry gun, it should be useable as is.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Don't take this wrong,this is coming from a guy that has probably invested about $400(cheap) in jigs and tools for just trigger work on pistols-BUT-I've NEVER met a trigger I've liked from a new pistol!!! BHP,1911,Glock,any S&W Auto,ANY revolver,ect,ect,ad nasum,they all stink to me and I like making them better!

[357mags]

Put rounds through it. It will break in. You don't need to waste the money on aftermarket parts.

[jmort]

"You don't need to waste the money on aftermarket parts."

Anyone who has the $$$ and and owns an M&P and fails to install the Apex trigger kit is a fool. Do some research.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well,I went ahead and got the APEX Sear when I got my new 10-8 Performance sights and I have to admit it does feel alot better! Gives a lower pull weight which I wanted and also a better "feel" on the reset! I also stippled the frame for a better hold. I like the new sights also! All put together this is without a doubt one of my favorite pistols! Wish it came in a 10mm!!!

[alrighty]

I am a fan of the M&P as well , I think Smith and Wesson got this one right.I also agree if you have one you should try an Apex trigger.I had the duty/carry kit installed and what a difference it made.
Nice break at 4 1/2 pounds and a short reset.I installed a night sight on front with a Dawson Precision adjustable rear.I have found the gun to be both accurate and more importantly completely reliable.
706687066970670

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK; Lets have some better pics of the stippling job.

I have the Dawson Sights on my Glocks and they are nice. I use Green fiber optic tubes on mine and they stand out well in bright sunlight, much better than the red does.

The red gun is a SIRT Laser Training Pistol. I use it to practice alot in the house and in the shop while working.

Yes,,, I carry a loaded laser blaster while working!

Randy

[LynC2]

I picked up an M&PC in 9 mm for my CC and I really love the pistol. I put in one of the Apex kits and it turned out great. A friend recently bought a 9mm Shield and the stock trigger is almost as good as mine after the mods! Evidently they have made some mods that have resulted in a much improved trigger.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I think the "mods" that S&W made was to copy the sear and striker block that APEX came up with! Of course they are copying the Glock to begin with! I guess when something comes along that completely takes over a segment of your industry,you jump on the wagon or get left behind. To be fair IMO S&W has made some improvements in the plastic pistol arena and I actually prefer the M&P format to Glocks!

Here is a pic of the new S&W PRO sear and the APEX on the right! At Least S&W listen to their customers and try to improve as they go!

[fourarmed]

This is a very interesting thread for me, since a M&P 45 followed me home yesterday. Do they have any particular likes or dislikes as far as ammo goes, specifically boolits?

[seagiant]

Hi FA,
Congrats on your new weapon! Let me tell you,your going to love that pistol if you can get happy with the trigger! My 45 was VERY hard and I didn't hesitate to do the mods on it. I showed a buddy of mine the pistol and he drooled on it for a half hour,guess I bought the last one in the county and he wants a 45 model BAD! To be honest the only thing I have shot in mine so far is my reloads using a MiHec clone H&G# 68 200 Gr. boolit. I have not tried any HP ammo yet. From what I've read there should be no problems though!

I just put a 4.25 PRO model in 9mm on layaway and noticed that the stock trigger on that is really pretty nice and will only need a fluff and buff! Go figure!

[scattershot]

Most accurate .45 ACP load I've ever shot is that bullet or a copy, over 4.0 RedDot.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well, being a shotshell shooter I just happen to have some Red Dot! I'll look into that! Thanks!

[fourarmed]

Took it to the range last night with several different lots of ball and a couple of CB reloads. Functioning was perfect with both mags, and after a slight windage adjustment, it pretty much put everything in the bullseye right-handed, left-handed, and both-handed. To say I was impressed was putting it mildly. I haven't bought a gun I liked as well for a long time. I worked over the trigger this morning, and brought it down from off-the-scale to a very predictable 5.5 lbs. At 50 feet, it put everything I fired right behind the white dot on the front sight. With some stippling down the front strap, and either a fiber optic or tritium front sight, this gun could definitely make my 1911s jealous.

[seagiant]

Took it to the range last night with several different lots of ball and a couple of CB reloads. Functioning was perfect with both mags, and after a slight windage adjustment, it pretty much put everything in the bullseye right-handed, left-handed, and both-handed. To say I was impressed was putting it mildly. I haven't bought a gun I liked as well for a long time. I worked over the trigger this morning, and brought it down from off-the-scale to a very predictable 5.5 lbs. At 50 feet, it put everything I fired right behind the white dot on the front sight. With some stippling down the front strap, and either a fiber optic or tritium front sight, this gun could definitely make my 1911s jealous.

Hi,
Good deal! Thanks for the report! I am an old 1911 freak and I only own one Glock because it is a 10MM! I have always preferred steel handguns,but this M&P has impressed me way more than it should! I have shot mine a bit now and I have had ZERO problems with it,it just goes bang and begs to be fed more ammo!

I know guys that have bought these pistols for $550 and then spent another $500 on mods! Storm Lake and Bar-Sto are both making barrels for them,but I have not seen any reason to go that route and it appears you won't need one either!

[seagiant]

Hi,
Thought I would pass this on to M&P owners. Apex Tactical has made an aluminum center safety trigger for awhile now. Nice bit of kit but somewhat expensive! They now have it in poly at a decent price (Ijust bought two!) and it is now for sale on their site! No connection to me but seems to be good people with good things for these pistols!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: could you post a pic of the top of your gun with the slide off, so I can see the lockwork. I have not seem the inside of an M&P.

randy

[fourarmed]

I started looking for extra magazines, as this thing could get me back to action pistol matches. I see a place called Botach tactical that is selling them for half of what S&W asks. Has anybody done business with this place?

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Tried to get both sides. The little lever that is painted yellow is a sear block! You have to push this down before you can slide the slide off! This thing is dead simple to work on,even easier than a Glock!

My nephew was shooting some reloads and got a squib load with a S&W 4566 that I had given him. Even though I warned him about reloads he pulled the trigger again and of course bulged the barrel! I took that pistol back and got him a M&P FS 9MM which was what he wanted. However it got me thinking of these and had to have one for myself. I have a M&P PRO 9mm on layaway and when the S&W 4566 get back from the factory its probably going to go on that!


Hi FA,
I have bought some things from Botach with no problems personally,BUT have noticed people on the NET complaining about them? Go figure!

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK; that's a little different. I thought they were closer to a Glock than that.

I'll have to get a closer look at my bro in laws M&P. He's had one for along time but doesn't use it much cuz he like his G22 too much.

We'll take it apart and see what in there.

In the pic of the sear block is the thing uncocked ?

Randy

[fourarmed]

It is hard to tell from that angle. The sear lever appears to be pushed out enough to contact the sear, but maybe not enough to completely lower the engagement end of it, if that is what you are asking. With the slide off, the striker couldn't be cocked, of course.

[seagiant]

In the pic of the sear block is the thing uncocked ?

Randy

Hi Randy,
Thats a trick question I guess,the sear has a plunger and spring under it,pivoting on the sear pin going through the sear housing. When the striker arm goes back during recoil the sear is allowed to come up and catch or cock the striker. Then as the trigger is pulled the striker block is cammed up,by the top protrusions on the trigger bar clearing the way for the striker and then the sear is cammed down by the end of the trigger bar, releasing the striker to fire the cartridge!

To me it is more like a conventinal auto than a Glock! This is how I see it anyway,instead of a sear holding back a spring loaded hammer with hammer hooks, it holds back a striker arm!

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well,Apex Tactical put out a Polymer copy of their AEK Aluminum trigger and I ordered 2 as I have a 9MM PRO model on layaway. I put one in my M&P 45 and have to say it is really sweet and makes the trigger "feel" much better. It has a more straight face or not curved as much and it gets rid of the "hinged" trigger that always bugged me. I know a lot of people can pick up about any pistol and as long as it goes bang every time are happy, but I like to dial mine in more!

There is not one bit of over travel after the sear breaks and you can feel the trigger reset better also! For the cost I would say the new poly trigger is a no brainer, if you have been impressed by these pistols as I have! Oh yes, using my old school NRA type Pachmeyer weight trigger scale, my trigger is around 5.0 lb. now! Which for a striker fired pistol is perfect to me!

[akraven]

I wish they made a 10mm too. I have also done some reading on springs changes and moving into 45 Super and 460 Rowland loads. A local shop offered conversions and I tried the 460 R conversion and it shot well and handled the recoil surprisingly well. Probably wouldn't be something you would choose to shot 1000's of 460R loads out of but fun.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well,from what I read the Rowland has to have a compensator to slow the slide from unlocking to fast! The 10MM is about as wild as I will ever get in a auto type pistol. I own a Glock 20 with a LW barrel and like it very much but a S&W M&P would be even better IMO but I'm not holding my breath! I know under the present political administration that the American people have no confidence in to up hold their 2A rights, that S&W at the moment is working 24/7 to just keep up with demand and not really worried about 2nd tier cartridges like the 10MM!

At the moment I will just be happy with my 45 as it will do anything asked of it in a CQB situation! After all John Browning DID know what he was doing!

[fourarmed]

Amen, brother. I have owned 3 series 70 Colts, one a Gold Cup, and a Commander worked over by Armand Swenson, and none of them would group like this M&P. Yesterday I shot it off the bench. One group shot with some ancient green box Remington Targetmaster 185 jswc went into a HALF-INCH GROUP at 25. Luck of course, since there is no way I can hold and aim that well, but it did make me decide to keep it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: I just got a Streamlight TLR1S' for my Glock, and one for the Kel-Tec and and a TLR3 for the Shotgun so I'm completely covered for night ops. Having one on the M&P for home use would be a good thing to look at.

I used the TLR1S' on the psitol and rifle because there was plenty of room for them. They both have the strobe light function which disorients the hell out of you if you are on the receiving end.(not to mention the disorienting effect of the bullet that would follow.)

On the shotgun I had to use the much smaller TLR-3 model which is cheaper and smaller and doesn't have the Strobe function. You can see how it just barely fit on the amount of rail remaining on the shotgun after the sling was attached.

If you hunt around a little you can find all of these for <$100. And the TLR3 was $70-75.

What people who have never seen a weapons mounted light don't fully understand is how bright they are, and how you can easily use your iron sights in total darkness with one attached to the gun.

The only negtives of having a weapon mounted light is you are covering whatever you light up so you kind of have to pay attention, and on pistols they won't holster up in a conventional holster.

However they are quickly removed and replaced so you can carry one in your pocket and attach it as needed.

On the rifle or shotgun they are simply a no brainer when it comes to home defense. I also use my Glock as an HD gun so it is mounted on it mostly as well. My intention would be to get to the shotgun and the bandolier of shells hung on it, and have the .45 in my pants to use as backup.

Can't have too much ammo when SHTF.

Today was a good day for Racing! 5/26/13

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
This is funny,after a decade of using a Pelican Super Sabre flashlight in the engine rooms I've worked in,I just bought a Streamlight Strion LED for a 100 bucks to finally upgrade! The nice thing about the Streamlight is it is one hand operational and is rechargeable instead of batteries!

I like the looks of the TLR-3 and it looks like it would not be in the way on a night stand pistol. I think Costa and Travis actually had these on the M&P's they use in the videos? Thanks for the info and pics!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I did get one of those but only due to the limited space on my acc rail on the shotgun. It is either on or off.

The TLR1S' I got have the strobe function which is a big advantage when dealing with intruders. The disorientation factor gives you that extra time to decide if you really want to shoot the intruder or just beat him sensless. They were $99 at LAPG. Right now they have $3.50 UPS Ground shipping.

One of the cool features of the Streamlights is the treadle bar switch. it is on/off one direction and momentary on in the other.

When you shoot with the light on you immediately shut it off when lowering the gun or you trace a line right back to you .

Randy

[alrighty]

Hi,
Well,Apex Tactical put out a Polymer copy of their AEK Aluminum trigger and I ordered 2 as I have a 9MM PRO model on layaway. I put one in my M&P 45 and have to say it is really sweet and makes the trigger "feel" much better. It has a more straight face or not curved as much and it gets rid of the "hinged" trigger that always bugged me. I know a lot of people can pick up about any pistol and as long as it goes bang every time are happy, but I like to dial mine in more!

There is not one bit of over travel after the sear breaks and you can feel the trigger reset better also! For the cost I would say the new poly trigger is a no brainer, if you have been impressed by these pistols as I have! Oh yes, using my old school NRA type Pachmeyer weight trigger scale, my trigger is around 5.0 lb. now! Which for a striker fired pistol is perfect to me!
Thank you for the review , I will pick up one of the new poly triggers for mine.I purchased an AEK kit used a while back but I did not like it as well as my duty/carry kit.I plan on getting a pro model as well so I will install that kit in it.I was hoping they would come out with one in the thumb safety but I don't think that will happen.
After your review I may just have to find one in .45 as well.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I know people say you shouldn't have to buy a pistol and then put after market parts in it,BUT the bottom line to me is the pistol platform as a whole is SOLID! What we are doing is tweeking the weapon to our taste! On my new PRO 9mm I already know that a trigger change and a fluff and buff with the stipple job and I will be good. I have a Glock 20 in 10MM which I love but don't really see another Glock in my future now! There's got to be some crying going on in Austria since these M&P's showed up!

Here's a thread on the triggers at the M&P Forum! http://mp-pistol.com/mp-gunsmithing/35820-polymer-aek.html

[Corvus]

I have been playing with M&P triggers lately and this is what I am trying now. Don't tell APEX I used the FSS with the stock trigger , they say it does not work.

Pic 1 full extension

72170

Pic 2 pre travel taken up

72171

Pic 3 after break and trigger against internal trigger stop

72172

[alrighty]

I found a M&P .45 full size with thumb safety over the weekend at a small gun shop.I brought it home , I agree the stock trigger leaves much to be desired.
I just ordered a apex DCAEK kit for it , I tried finding the new polymer triggers but I did not see them on their web sight.I guess that was a limited run as I see them only offered with the fast reset kit.I just ordered the aluminum one instead.
I also found a seller with factory 10 round mags on fleabay for less than 25.00 each so I picked up a few of those.If it shoots as well as the .40 I will be very happy!
Corvus about time for a range trip?
76316

[seagiant]

Hi,
It shoots very well! On the poly triggers,I actually got 2 of them as I will get a FS 9MM sooner or later! I would also reccomend the Yost 10-8 Performance sights!

[Corvus]

I just ordered a apex DCAEK kit for it.


"That guy " down in Tenn. shoots his M&P stock , looks like you wasted your money. :kidding:


The 45 M&P , is 10 rounds what all the mags hold or some of them just 10 rounds to meet some state law ? If it is only 2 rounds more than a 1911 I don't know that I like the M&P enough to give up my Saint John 45s for 2 rounds.

[alrighty]

"That guy " down in Tenn. shoots his M&P stock , looks like you wasted your money. :kidding:


The 45 M&P , is 10 rounds what all the mags hold or some of them just 10 rounds to meet some state law ? If it is only 2 rounds more than a 1911 I don't know that I like the M&P enough to give up my Saint John 45s for 2 rounds.

"That Guy" What !!! Don't tell me your favorite shooting classmate has given up on Glocks! Has he made any more wonderful you tube videos expressing his thoughts on our 1911's?
The standard magazines are politically correct in only holding 10 rounds , however 14 round capacity factory mags are available.
I purchased six more 10 rounders from Botach for 19.99 each , the 14's are $29.99 each.I haven't ordered high cap mags yet.I am waiting for the apex goodies as well as the new sights to arrive first.If I like the .45 as well as the .40 I then will order some. Some holsters will interchange between the two calibers.The comp-tac infidel will accept either , the raven had to be modified as the barrel on the .45 is slightly longer.If and when I decide it to be good to go I will probably just order another Sparks VM2 to fit the .45 as I am sure it would also fit the .40.

[Corvus]

I saw a video somewhere where saying he was going to carry a stock no mods M&P for testing and evaluation.