300 blackout subsonic cb load data?

[Crocks and Socks]

anybody have a load they have worked up that will cycle the lee mold 300 blk 230 grain bullet subsonic?

[felix]

Any of the 680 "brands" will work. H116 is one as well. 11.0 grains plus or minus 0.5. Faster powders won't develop the delayed pressure required to consistently work the bolt. ... felix

[Crocks and Socks]

thank you felix i will now try and located some of these.

[x101airborne]

I dont know my exact charge, but I used Solo 1250. Worked better than Red Dot in that particular cartrige. Why, I dont know, but it was more accurate and seemed to work really well in my AR.

[Crocks and Socks]

i got mine shooting and cycling great with reloader 7. bullets were cycling at 950 fps. i stopped with 1050 fps with 10.2 grains and bolt locks back on last shot. im using a spikes tactical with wilson combat 16 inch match barrel and carbine length gas system no adjustable block.

[felix]

OK, then, stay with RL7. Your barrel system is faster than mine, and that is good for subsonic. The 680s are a tad slower, in general. Of course, each lot of each might show a reverse in practice. ... felix

[Chrome1981]

Hello, i want buy an AR-15 ( i thought an Smith a Wesson Model M&P15 Sport) and an .300 BlackOut Upper receiver 12 inch barrel.
I would like to use sub-sonic lead bullets, but the powder that is easier to find in Rome is Vihtavuori (69 Euros/Kg ).

Could you suggest me some mold (i thought about NOE [311-247G-FN-2C-PB]) and reloading data ?

what do you think about 12-inch barrel?

thank you very much!!!

[Jupiter7]

Hello, i want buy an AR-15 ( i thought an Smith a Wesson Model M&P15 Sport) and an .300 BlackOut Upper receiver 12 inch barrel.
I would like to use sub-sonic lead bullets, but the powder that is easier to find in Rome is Vihtavuori (69 Euros/Kg ).

Could you suggest me some mold (i thought about NOE [311-247G-FN-2C-PB]) and reloading data ?

what do you think about 12-inch barrel?


thank you very much!!!

Vihtavuori n110 would be my choice. It's a little expensive so I've not used it. Seen data for subs and supers. Data is subjective to gas port size and gas system length. For other mold options look at the Accurate 31-240e, it works really well in AR mags.

[Chrome1981]

Vihtavuori n110 would be my choice. It's a little expensive so I've not used it. Seen data for subs and supers. Data is subjective to gas port size and gas system length. For other mold options look at the Accurate 31-240e, it works really well in AR mags.

Thank you very much can i try to give u other details of my future upper in .300 BLK:
twist: 1/10
gas-tube mid-pistol 12 cm

I want buy only upper, no all carabineItalian vendor here. (http://www.nuovajager.it/scheda5.asp?id=332032013318333)

Here in Italy Vihtavuori is expensive too, but IMR, Hogdgon, Winchester are very rare and more expensive. (Accurate powders nerver seen)

Thank you for mold now i'll send an email to ask them if they ship to Italy :)

[bikerbeans]

9.9 grains of H110 and the Lee 300AAC bullet (mine weigh 225g) cycles in my 16" 1:8 twist AR blackout. The lower is a Spikes with military buff tube and the standard buffer and spring. This load is supposed to be subsonic but I haven't chronied it to verify. CCI small rifle primers and a fairly strong lee factory crimp. Brass is converted Rem 223 commercial. OAL is 2.25"

BB

[Crocks and Socks]

^^^^that didnt work in mine i tried it up to 14 grs before i saw case pressure and still wouldnt cycle and was hitting 1450 fps

[Jupiter7]

^^^^that didnt work in mine i tried it up to 14 grs before i saw case pressure and still wouldnt cycle and was hitting 1450 fps

If 14grs h110 didn't cycle with a 200+gr boolit, you've got other problems. I've gotten 160's to cycle with 13gr charges. My 245's cycle at 10.2grs h110. Time to disassemble everything and clean. Measure your gas port, if it's below .095, it's too small. .125 with a carbine length gas system would be desirable. Check your gas tube for obstruction and
either clean or replace. Also check gas port/gas block alignment.

Edit to add: could also try a lighter buffer. 300aac was designed to run with a carbine gas and buffer system, suppressed or not.

[StratsMan]

Measure your gas port, if it's below .095, it's too small.

Generally speaking, I'm +1 with the above advise... My gas port isn't .095 (.070 IIRC, CMMG bbl), but it's way bigger than the port on my 223 barrel... I think lots of guys are having trouble with short (or not) cycling because the port is too small, and there's insufficient gas vented to the system.

I prefer fast rifle powder over magnum pistol powder, but that's just me. I've used both... I just shot 225 grain Hornady j-words and 235 grain cast (Accurate 31-235b) with 10.0, 10.5 and 11.0 grains of A-1680 through my Franken-15... All cycled the bolt, though 10.0 and cast boolits failed to lock the bolt open on the last round.

[Pirate69]

9.9 grains of H110 and the Lee 300AAC bullet (mine weigh 225g) cycles in my 16" 1:8 twist AR blackout. The lower is a Spikes with military buff tube and the standard buffer and spring. This load is supposed to be subsonic but I haven't chronied it to verify. CCI small rifle primers and a fairly strong lee factory crimp. Brass is converted Rem 223 commercial. OAL is 2.25"

BB

I am working up the same components for a friend's 300 Blackout (AR upper). Currently, it is cycling very well with 9.6 grains of H110. However, I wish I could find some 1680 powder for his loads.

[Smoke4320]

the real trick on the Blackout to get nearly 100% cycling in heavy subsonic loads is to have a pistol
length gas system..as most are finding with car gas systems you need a larger than norm gas port in the barrel ..
also found on J-words that a light crimp gave me much better accuracy.. still expermenting on the cast boolits .. Shot some Lee 180's with 94/4/2 and got good but not great accuracy.. only poured 2 weeks before .. Their approaching a month old now so hope to try them again Monday .. even light crimped a few to see if there was a difference

just poured 100 lee 230's and powdercoated them last week .. so hope to have some prelim answers next week

[Coug91]

i got mine shooting and cycling great with reloader 7. bullets were cycling at 950 fps. i stopped with 1050 fps with 10.2 grains and bolt locks back on last shot. im using a spikes tactical with wilson combat 16 inch match barrel and carbine length gas system no adjustable block.

Would this load work with a 10.5" barrel with pistol gas tube? Using the NOE 311247 that drop at 225gr.

[Crocks and Socks]

when trying the h110 and lil gun powders the load was tested in 4 different rifles. it would not cycle any of them. two of the rifles had a pistol length gas system as well. all 4 rifles cycled with the reloader 7 and we have all been shooting them since last week with out a problem. out of 200 rounds i have only had one fail to feed and i think it was mag related as well as one fail to hold bolt open on last shot.

[Smoke4320]

when trying the h110 and lil gun powders the load was tested in 4 different rifles. it would not cycle any of them. two of the rifles had a pistol length gas system as well. all 4 rifles cycled with the reloader 7 and we have all been shooting them since last week with out a problem. out of 200 rounds i have only had one fail to feed and i think it was mag related as well as one fail to hold bolt open on last shot.
its strange how guns of the same caliber can work so differently .. I have a Novoski 10.5 " and it cycles just fine on Hornady 220 Rn's and 8.5 Grns of Lil Gun.. Very very accurate as well. H110 worked as well ..

[Crocks and Socks]

all four of these guns will cycle fine using the lil gun and h110 when using fmj bullets just not the cast bullets

[Smoke4320]

getting ready to try the lee 230-5R probably Sunday afternoon.. Poured 100 about 2 weeks ago Pc'ed and sized
trying 50% lead and 50 % COWW + tin first since I shooting them subsonic.. interested to see if they will shoot straight ( little worried they may bend/tumble in flight) and hopefully expand well.. Figured I would try soft first and then go harder if necessary ..

[Poodleshooter]

Has anyone worked up Alliant 2400 loads with the Lee 230gr that they can share?

[Smoke4320]

7150771508
Not crimped was 6 rd group, crimped was 5 rd group.
First load tryed in these..Alloy is 50% lead 50 % COWW + Tin this shows promise to be a good shooting load
These were also shot thru a YHM Suppressor
100% feed and last shot held open.
Sunday will try dropping to 8.3 grains to see how far I can drop before I get reliabilty issues .. Then I will begin to fine tune the loads

so far every 300 Blkout subsonic load I have tryed has shot better groups with a Crimp.. Jacketed or lead & pc'ed ..

[Smoke4320]

Reference last post above for load data ...down to 7.9 grns of Lil gun .. 100% feed/cycle and last shot hold open

next to refine for group size

[Rundownfid]

Have you had any more time to refine your load for accuracy? This looks like a very promising load, have you had a chance to Chrono it outof the short barrel? Longer tube?

[Smoke4320]

sorry I have not .. Have more loaded ready to go just been super busy
hoping to shoot some this Sunday afternoon if weather co-ops

[geraldbur]

I am building 300 aac blackout upper, 1/7 twist, pistol gas port , use with silen , have speer 200gr buller and rl #7 powder looking for reloading data for subsonic . can't find much data out there or not wording it right

[Smoke4320]

74474tryed 12 more rds at 7.9 grns Lil gun .. no improvement in group size .. but got 100% Feed/Function/last shot hold open.. in 2 groups of 5 and 1.. 2 shot group .. no leading or buildup of any kind.. 1 patch push thru and totally clean ..
Waiting on my custom dillon powder thru expander for the blackout for a more control on the neck sizing and flare
my 308 was a completely different story.. 5 shots in less than 3/4"

[KinkBreaker]

smoke-
what yhm suppressor are you using? and at 7.9gr lilgun is it subsonic?

[Smoke4320]

7.62 (dont have the number in front of me but think its 3300) and yes in my 10.5" its right at subsonic
going to drop to 7.8 and 7.7 and try again

[grrifles]

I have not gotten the chance to test these for accuracy yet

110 hor SP. 5 grains trail boss. 1045 FPS
245 cast. 5 grains unique. Pretty quiet. 1020fps
245 cast. 3 to 3.5 grains of n310. Very quiet suppressed. 700 to 750 FPS

Remington 700. 16.5 barrel

[Smoke4320]

Just got done with some prelim 2400 Powder and H4198 Loads
7.2 Grains of 2400 gave full function and very quiet..with 3 rds in a 10 Rd colt GI mag
9.8 Grains of H4198 gave full function and also quiet but slightly loader than 2400
6 Grains of Trailboss was the quietest of all but not full function..
its bordering on compressed load so really don't want to go higher
.. have to wait till Sunday afternoon to check accuracy and chrono
will do my best to get back here Monday with results

still playing with lil gun .. getting good function just have not found the combo that gives me the accuracy I desire .. need to start varying seating depth and crimp pressure

[2big2fail]

Just got done with some prelim 2400 Powder and H4198 Loads
7.2 Grains of 2400 gave full function and very quiet..with 3 rds in a 10 Rd colt GI mag
9.8 Grains of H4198 gave full function and also quiet but slightly loader than 2400
6 Grains of Trailboss was the quietest of all but not full function..
its bordering on compressed load so really don't want to go higher
.. have to wait till Sunday afternoon to check accuracy and chrono
will do my best to get back here Monday with results

still playing with lil gun .. getting good function just have not found the combo that gives me the accuracy I desire .. need to start varying seating depth and crimp pressure

Interesting to see your trials and progress! I am working on nearly the same exact work(up/down) I'm trying out different loads using the lee 230blk and Lyman 311-679- the "bore rider"-in theory. Still lots of paper zombies to exfoliate before all the data is in.

Rifle: 300AAC blackout
1-7 twist 9" suppressed
Pistol length gas system
Brass: LC cut and resized
1.350
slightly beveled at mouth (to allow insertion)
light crimp
Powder: lil gun, R-7, A2400
CCI sr primers
boolits: Lee 230 blk, Lyman 311-679. 200 grn. Both sized to .309 and 180 SMK's
OAL: 2.210
Results: Still looking for the winner!


I have had lots of varying results, although, the conditions haven't been perfect. Pushing through crappy spring weather to get out and get some numbers. What I've learned- when going for numbers, do it in a controlled environment.

Anyway, The lee 230 seems to hit on target better so far than the L311-679. But, I only just got my iron sights mounted and truthfully, don't know where 0 is yet because working up loads and struggling to sight in at the same time doesn't really mix!! :)
The lee 230 leads up the bolt quickly - around 40 rounds. I can remove the BCG and find build up between the bolt and carrier. I'm in this project to find the balance between the Bhn and powder load with given twist while staying subsonic. No real leading in the bore necessarily so,,, trying to calculate just what exactly is going on here. The lee 320's are lubes with LLA, the Lyman 311-679's are hand lubed the same as if it were lube sized. My intended goal is 975fps. No ftf's or hold open issues at all with the last round.
I have been keeping track of velocity with the work-ups though, and I've discovered some oddities. With 10grns A2400 and 180 grnSMK I get 1060fps with a 124 ES, now I go to 10.5 grns and "check this out" I avg 1051 with an ES of only 18. ?? 1/2 grns lighter on the powder and same bullet is faster and less consistent. The same happened again with the lee 230. 8.9 grns Lil Gun = 991, increase the load to 9.2 and I lose 20 fps. The spread was about the same though.
I put a gas check on the L311-679 200 grn and wow! At 9.5 grains Lil Gun, I'm hitting 1207. But, (and here's where it get's interesting) a couple will hit target, then the fliers came. Back and forth from target to somewhere in the 5:00 vicinity around 2-3 feet from center of target at 50 yards. Not sure what's up with that but had to quit before getting a strike at that rate.
Still sorting out the next wave of micro adjustments and will be happy to post as new data arrives.

[petroid]

Ya know I had a similar experience using h110. At 9.0 of h110 ES was 160ish with avg 1020. At 9.2 ES was lower and avg the same. I'm thinking more consistent ignition

[tgator]

Lil Gun, 110, and 296 are inconsistent in reduced loads. They are great for magnum pistol loads. Using fast rifle powders
produces plenty of gas to operate action and soft launch of cast bullets. They will not produce top velocity in supersonic loads
with jacketed. My favorite powder for both sub and super loads is IMR4227.


Tim

[supersniper]

Have loads of RL7(10.5) and IMR-4227(9.5 using WSR) that cycle the Lee 230 ok but the best by far is 9.8 of AA1680.

[donald150]

Well I finally found some time to try a few test loads using the LEE 230gr mold and I need some help refining them.

First some info on the guns im using.(I don't have a suppressor yet but hope to this year)
#1 AR pistol with the CMMG 8.5" 1/8 twist barrel w/pistol length gas system with Aimpoint comp m2
#2 AR rifle with Palmetto 16" 1/8 twist barrel w Carbine length gas system with a 16 power scope

The bullets are 230gr BT cast from the Lee mold. I don't remember the Lead BHN but its not soft. They were powder coated and sized to .308
I probably should have sized to .309 but I don't have a .309 die yet.

I tried 4 different loads yesterday in both guns at 50 yards. All loads used CCI Bench Rest SR primers, had an OAL of about 2.225 and were lightly crimped.

The 4 loads were:
1) 10gn of IMR 4227
2) 10.5gn or Reloader 7
3) 5.8gn of Unique
4)11gn of A5744


The Unique loads: Failed to eject in both guns, did not hit the paper out of the rifle and left a 5" group from the pistol.

The Reloader 7 loads: Ejected 9 of the 10 loads but would not cycle enough to chamber another round in either gun.
They had a 3.5" group with the pistol and 5.5" with the rifle.

The A5744 loads: Ejected every round but only re-chambered one or two following rounds. They had a 4.5" group from the pistol and 3.5" from the rifle

The 4227 loads: These were by far the best load. They all ejected from both guns but would not cycle either gun enough to chamber the next round or lock the bolt back. They produced a 2.5" group out of the pistol and a 1" group out of the rifle.


All of that being said, here is my question:
I am going to try and refine the 4227 load since it seems like the best so far. I'm wondering what would be the best route to get it cycling properly? Should I try to size them to .309 or bump up the charge or both? I still have a bunch of the powder coated bullets sized to .308
IMR data for the 230gr BER TACT bullet is:

IMR 4227 .308"
2.260" OAL
10.2gn MAX 1,065 FPS 37,100 CUP

[donald150]

Double Tap

[Sticky]

I have some test loads setup and just cast and coated a bunch more lee 309230's to play with. I use primarily A1680 and have always had great results with that loading subs for the 300blackout. I don't shoot suppressed (yet) and it works the best for me. I have a couple others that I can try, H110 works well for supers, but I mostly load subs. Looking forward to testing some loads in the next week or so.

I have some sized to 309 and will load some 'as cast' (about .310 at the lube grooves), some with PC, some with Hi-Tek... lot of testing to do.. lol

[wlc]

Donald150, are you using the same loads in both gas systems? I ask only because you will be able to use more powder in the pistol system than in the rifle system and still stay subsonic thus giveg you better odds of proper cycling etc. Pistol length barrel loads can/will go super sonic out of longer barrels. Can you tell if your loads are subsonic or super sonic? I've worked a little with imr4227 in my 16" carbine gas system AR, but I finally found some more AA1680 and have dropped the pursuit. The few loads I tried would eject, but not pick up the next round. When I bumped up the powder to the point they would cycle reliably I was getting the sonic crack. I've also had the same results using RL7 and 5744. Best powder, at least for me, has been AA1680 for subs that cycle and give BHO on the last shot. I've played with a few loads with fast pistol powders that are REALLY quiet but won't even unlock the bolt.

I've really been thinking about getting one of the new Ruger Am Ranch rifles in 300BLK or a barrel for my Encore just for the fact that most of the tinkering folks have to do loading for the blk is due to getting an AR to cycle reliably with powders other than 1680.

[donald150]

Yes, same loads in both guns. I would love to find some aa1680 but no luck so far. I found 5477 and bought 3 lbs but it wasn't the substitute I hoped it would be.

The rounds loaded with Unique were by far the quietest!
And I am definitely buying one of the Ruger ranch rifles when I find one IN Stock and at a good price.

[petroid]

I've really been thinking about getting one of the new Ruger Am Ranch rifles in 300BLK or a barrel for my Encore just for the fact that most of the tinkering folks have to do loading for the blk is due to getting an AR to cycle reliably with powders other than 1680.

I too would love a 300BLK Bolt gun. And I also load some with fast powders for super quiet without action noise. Just pull the charging handle each time. But my AR is quite heavy and slow to manually cycle compared to a simple bolt action.

donald150. I have had good luck with H110, IMR4227, and Re7 in my 12.5" 1:7 CMMG pistol gas. I found Re7 to be dirty burning at these low charge weights but functioned more reliably than anything else. Alas, I don't have any 1680. With subs you have to work backwards. Start at the max listed loads, which are very low to be sure, and verify function and work down until you are subsonic and functioning. You may have to go over the "max" to actually obtain good function depending on the gas system. New components may require some breaking in as well before everything runs smooth. This is usually not the case for supers, you may want to work on those first to get some break-in done and come back to the subs. It goes without saying that a chronograph is your friend. Without a suppressor, it is nearly impossible to differentiate between supersonic and subsonic just by listening for the "crack". And a suppressor will add a few feet per second as well as increase back pressure to help with cycling, but I always want my AR loads to cycle without a suppressor just in case.

[donald150]

It goes without saying that a chronograph is your friend. Without a suppressor, it is nearly impossible to differentiate between supersonic and subsonic just by listening for the "crack".

I agree, I may be putting the cart before the horse. I have been loading 110gn, 147gn and 150gn in my 300AAC for a while and I REALLY like the 110Gn Hornady V-Max. I don't currently have a chronograph but I hope to this summer.

I am in the process of setting up a NFA trust so I hope to be starting the process on a suppressor this summer also.

[Sticky]

A chrono is really a critical tool for handloading, especially subs.. I can't tell the difference unsuppressed by ear, so the chrono tells me for sure and it also gives you a baseline to compare your velocities (and correlate to pressures) to the load data as you are working up loads. It's not always the same! ;)