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View Full Version : Anyone use clays powder with slugs?



jmorris
09-11-2007, 05:37 PM
It looks like most of the info I've found shows slower powders. I'm looking for a "reduced recoil" 7/8oz kind of load, but will take any info I can get. Anyone use clays with sucess? What's you're setup?

Thanks
jm

NSP64
09-11-2007, 06:58 PM
I would use the data for the same weight of shot.:Fire:

Blackhawk Convertable
11-21-2007, 07:22 PM
Loose weight and all one weight, while the same on the scales, may be a totally different thing when it comes to pressure. I would tread lightly until verified by a manual.

crowbeaner
11-21-2007, 10:23 PM
I've never used Clays for slug loads, only shot. The Lyman book has loads using Universal Clays IIRC. The Lee slug moulds use different powders, and the data is available online and in the sheet with the moulds. Slugs shoot differently than shot due to the wad column compression and the compaction of the payload under pressure. This is why the rule of not changing ANY components exists, among others. Stick to the data, and just pick one of the slower loadings, and you should be OK. The BPI catalog actually lists loads for their blue sabot slug using Bullseye of all powders! DON'T fold crimp if the load says to roll crimp! Your barrel may burst as the fold crimp raises pressure. Hope this helps. CB.

rbstern
12-02-2007, 11:23 PM
I used 17 grains of Clays for a 1 oz Lee slug. Worked well, but it was a mild load. My chrono was fritzing out that day, so I don't have numbers.

I've also used 17 grains of Red Dot, which yielded a consistent 1100 fps with the 1 ounce slug; again a mild load.

Richard Lee, in his Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, wrote that it is acceptable to substitute the lead slug into an equivalent load meant for shot.

longbow
12-04-2007, 02:23 AM
I have been trying to gather as much info as I can for shotgun slug loading because the manuals are very confusing (to me at least) with regards to loads for shot and slugs. Every one I have says not to substitute anything as dangerous pressures can result.

The Lyman Shotgun Reloading manual gives examples of fairly dramatic pressure increases with just a change of a primer or wad.

Slug loading info is certainly not as available as shot loads and I find a problem to match components. Seems every time I have a hull and powder I can't get the right primer or wad to suit. Then if you look through enough manuals there seem to be contradictions.

Having said all that Lee takes a much more simplistic approach and simply categorizes hulls by all plastic and plastic with paper base wad. Any primer or wad will do if you can crimp after loading. These must of course be lower performance and lower pressure loads so an increase in pressure by changing components won't reach dangerous pressures.

I have also read that many people do substitute slugs for shot loads of equal weight and have been told that this results in lower pressures due to less bore friction - not necessariy gospel. Going the other way and using shot in a slug recipe is not acceptable due to higher bore frcition. I am tending to believe this but would still like pressure data to confirm.

So far I limit substitutions only where I have pressure data and know I am in the lower ranges - the Lee philosophy. I have substituted one slug for another of equal weight with no problems but using published data and similar slug/wad design.

I have 5 or 6 shotgun loading manuals, powder mfg's data, Lee data and recipes from BPI. Even with all this I often have trouble obtaining exact components where I live.

I will take a look and see if I have any Clays slug loads. If so I will post them. Since you are looking for reduced load data a light shot load would likely be safe to substitute a slug into but if you do, don't change anything else! Same hull, primer, wad and powder as the published data.

To my knowledge shotguns do not provide pressure signs like rifles and handguns: sticky extraction, flattened primers, etc. - they just reach dangerous pressures and blow up.

Whatever you do be careful and err on the side of safety.

Longbow

randyrat
12-04-2007, 11:06 PM
I tried Clays for a 1 oz Lee slug and they were all over the target, some didn't hit at all. But then i changed to a rifled muzzle attachment that may have had something to do with it. I still have a lot of experimenting to do. Good luck

toecutter
12-05-2007, 04:27 AM
I use clays powering a 1oz lee slug in a 12 ga, I think I'm using a MEC 31 bushing which should be somewhere about 18 grains (I could be wrong without looking this up in my notes so double check the manual). Just an FYI these slugs don't pattern for cr*p unless you're using a rifled slug barrel.

Probably worth mentioning that I'm using AA hulls, with AA-12 (or claybuster equivalent). I also double checked the loading data, for a MEC31 bushing and clays it's 17.3 grains and the MEC30 gives me 16.7gr. According to the hodgdon site I got the following data:

Clays CCI 209 WAA12SL 15.7 7,900 PSI 1125
Clays CCI 209 WAA12SL 17 8,700 PSI 1180
Clays CCI 209 WAA12SL 18.4 10,900 PSI 1235

This is all for a 1oz shot load. The LEE slugs fit perfectly, and probably actually give less compression than a typical 1oz shot load. So based on these recipes, I'm well within tolerance, and am about mid-to-low range of the scale with how fast I'm pushing these out there.

As I said earlier, these slugs aren't accurate unless you have a rifled slug barrel, but if you just want to pound something down range with big blobs of lead (a friend of mine who has a rifled slug barrel gets excellent accuracy with these). I will also sometimes skip them into large targets, like water barrels or pumpkins. If the light is right, you can see them tumbling into the target. Unfortunately, I have yet to actually recover one yet, but I imagine it's fairly impressive.

longbow
12-07-2007, 12:16 AM
I finally got to this and I am assuming you are talking 12 ga:

From the BPI Slug Loading Manual:

1) 12 Ga.; 2 3/4" Fiocchi lo base hull; Fio 616 primer; 19.5 gr. Clays powder; HCD-21 wad; improved 1 oz. Foster slug; pressure = 9300 PSI; velocity = 1290 FPS

2) 12 Ga.; 2 3/4" Fiocchi high basewad base hull; Fio 616 primer; 20.8 gr. Clays powder; Trap Commander wad; improved 7/8 oz. oz. Foster slug; pressure = 8600 LUP; velocity = 1350 FPS

3) 12 Ga.; 2 3/4" Remington RTL hull; Win 209 primer; 18.1 gr. Clays powder; Trap Commander wad; improved 7/8 oz. Foster slug; pressure = 8600 LUP; velocity = 1290 FPS

4) 12 Ga.; 2 3/4" Winchester AA original type hull; Win 209 primer; 18.6 gr. Clays powder; Trap Commander wad; improved 7/8 oz. Foster slug; pressure = 8500 LUP; velocity = 1330 FPS

5) 12 Ga.; 2 1/2" Federal Gold Medal hull; Win 209 primer; 21.4 gr. Clays powder; GBP LB12 wad; 0.690 round ball; pressure = 10,300 PSI

Make sure you read carefully - there are 1 oz., 7/8 oz. and 486 gr. loads here.

Happy shooting!

Limey
01-09-2008, 05:52 PM
When I used to live in England, obtaining shotgun cartridges loaded with slug meant having a Firearms License.....( I think this was because the Police thought that if you had solid in a shotgun you could blow a hole in any bank's wall and steal all their money or something!).........anyway, a Firearms License was far more difficult to get permission for and a lot more expensive than just a Shotgun Permit........I was just a young kid with not much money but a lot of enthusiasm for shooting....so I looked for a cheap (and illegal) alternative....why did I want solid shot cartridges any way?....just because they were so restricted and difficult to get.....like anything you can't have....you want to try it all the more!

I bought a single cavity ball mould in .68 inch diameter, made some pure lead balls, got some birdshot cartridges, levered open the crimp, poured out the birdshot into my lead melting pot... (to make more lead balls!)..., popped in a cast ball and pushed the crimp back shut with the handle of a screwdriver.

Although young I was not completely stupid...(I'm sure there are some of my friends and family would beg to differ with my self observation!)....before loading up any of my cast balls I rolled one through the barrel of my shotgun to make sure they would go through Ok and also weighed a cast ball against the quantity of shot I was replacing....as long as the cast ball weight equalled or was less than the quantity of birdshot I felt that this simple replacement technique would be OK.

After all if one big ball equalled the weight of all the little birdshot balls then the energy to accelerate/launch either to the same velocity must be the same.....so why should this swap compromise pressure safety irrespective of what powder was providing the thrust?

Somebody far cleverer than me in a cartridge factory somewhere had worked out that 'Powder X' could launch this weight of lead without blowing up the gun......so 'Powder X' would not mind if that weight of lead was in one big lump or lot's of little lumps surely?

Until reading this thread I had never considered the differences in barrel friction but reflecting on that issue now.....(many years older but still don't have much money but have even more enthusiaism for shooting!).... I reckon my cast lead balls have less barrel friction than a whole column of birdshot due to less frictional area in contact with the barrel walls......so I agree with Longbow on that......

Anyway.......out of my Mossburg pump or my Baikal single barrel....I could keep them on a target at 50 yards.......I never said in the black at 50.....just on the paper!.........the range where I used to shoot them were not too happy as they had to do a lot of target frame rebuilding after I had had a good time!!!...so young....so selfish.......but what a lot of fun I had!!!!...and for not a lot of cash!.....for not only were solid shot difficult to get authority to buy, they were really expensive as well.

Many years have passed since those days and I have shot a lot of my home brewed solids and I have either been very lucky or my simplistic reasoning was OK'ish after all.

This is not meant as a recomendation in any way to anybody......just me sharing some experiences and youthful memories.

Safe shooting

Limey