Model 94 30-30 cast boolits and gas checks

[3030guy]

I've heard from several sources that the proper cast diameter for the m94 30-30 should be around 0.311. Although the full metal jacket I've been shooting is 0.308. I am using a lee mold (C309-180R) and the cast diameter for my alloy seems to be 0.3105 or so.
My question is when installing gas checks using a lee sizing die should I size to 0.309 or 0.311 ?
Seems that if I install the checks at 0.309 then the bullet will be even smaller and accuracy will fail.
Anyway I don't want to try to shove something too large down my barrel. :shock:
No I haven't slugged my barrel yet. Probably my next step.
Thanks
3030guy

[WILCO]

Lyman cast bullet handbook says sized to .308 and they're using the LEE C309-150-F. When in doubt, slug the barrel.

[Baja_Traveler]

I always slug the barrel and go 1-2 thou over on my sizing die. Every rifle seems to be a little different, so thats the only real way to taylor a load for your own specific rifle.

[labradigger1]

my pre 64 94 loves .309, no leading what so ever, try 308 or 309 and see what it does, any larger than 309 and i would guess you will start to get hard chambering. if all else fails slug the bore and go that size or one thousandth larger.

[3030guy]

Thanks guys for some quick answers. The 309 molds seem to drop 0.310 sized boolits and they fire with good accuracy. So I didn't think it would improve anything to add the check and size down to .309. I have a .311 die that will set the checks fine. And yes I need to slug the barrel.
Any suggestion on slugging? I've seen people use an appropriately sized ball and drive it in from the muzzle. Also seen some that drive it in from the chamber throat. Either way I'll probably have to remove the bolt.

[RickinTN]

No need in slugging the barrel. If the bullet as cast is .3105 and fits just use the .311 die to seat the gas checks and go about your business. You can't make the bullet bigger, and if it chambers you don't want to make it smaller.

[oldandslow]

30-30,
I recently started casting and reloading for my 94 30-30 (made in 1946). I slugged the barrel and it mic'd a little over 0.309". My sizing dies run either 0.3103 or 0.3105". Both function well in the rifle with good accuracy and no leading (velocity 1700 ft/sec with 180 grain boolits). As others have said it is hard to make a recommendation without slugging your barrel but if the rifle functions well with your current load there may be no need to slug it. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

[3030guy]

Ok thanks guy for all the responses. I think I am going to try a gas check on one of these 180 grain boolits. I'm going to seat it with the 0.311 sizing die. As long as it chambers easy I think it will work.
I am going to use a load from the lyman manual 45th edition. The closest 2 loads to my boolit weight are 176 gr and 183 gr.
My boolit weight with check is 179 gr. I have some HERCO powder and the lyman load for a checked bullet is 8.5 grains for the 176gr boolit and 9.0 grains for the 183gr boolit. So I'm thinking I'll start with 8.0 grains of HERCO if everyone thinks that would be safe.

[GabbyM]

From experience with 30-30 brass. I can inform you that if you run a gas checked boolit through a size die that leaves the gas check a larger diameter than the boolit body. During the following bullet seating operation. Gas check will expand the thin 30-30 case neck to it’s diameter to leave you with a boolit not held tight or even wobbly in the case neck.

I’ve never personally found a Win 94 that wouldn’t’ shoot a .310” boolit. But I’ve only cast boolits for a few. My Win 94 AE (angle eject) wont’ even chamber a .312” boolit. Your mold should work fine sized to .310”. If Lee only makes a .309” and .311” then buy the .309” die and if you need it larger lap it out. That’s my 2 cents.

[3030guy]

Tried the 160gr and 180gr cast with copper gas checks sized to 0.311 and they worked just fine.

[Sensai]

Within reason, don't worry about sending a "too big" boolit down your barrel. Think of it this way, if you can size the boolit down with little problem what problem do you think the chamber pressure will have. Even the hardest alloys we use won't increase pressures much to size a boolit a few thousandths. If it chambers without difficulty it'll shoot.

[HiVelocity]

Yep, what Baja Traveler said. You'll find that "niche" that your rifle will come together. After you slug your barrel, try a variety of cast bullets (from others here) and see what your Win likes. My circa 70 Winchester loves the Ranch Dog 311-165-RF over a charge of Unique. My Contender loves the combo too.

Just food for thought.

HV

[HiVelocity]

Any suggestion on slugging? I use 0-buckshot (.319). I'd just look up someone who is either casting, loading, or shooting 0-buck and ask for a few. I like to lube the buckshot really well and during the slugging process. You'll hear alot of pro's and con's on how to exactly do this. I use 12" pieces of wooden dowel (Wal-Mart, $.97) and they work like a champ for me. PM me if you're interested in the whole procedure.

HV

[smkummer]

My 30-06 (03A3 and 1917) and 30-40 Krag all shoot .311 diameter bullets very well. So I use the same 311291 sized at
.311 in my pre-64 94 30-30 with success. I loaded some for my buddies new to him post-64 94 and some of them were chambering hard with Win. cases. So for his gun he may have to size at .309 or .310 (I don't believe lee makes a .310) or maybe Remington cases won't be as thick in the neck and he can get by with .311 sized bullets. I too use the .311 to seat gas checks on bullets that are shy of .311.

[Char-Gar]

"Slug the bore" has become a knee jerk mantra and answer to most questions asked on this board by new people. The truth is it is not often necessary to slug the bore.

The critical dimension for cast bullets is the barrel throat/freebore. A cast bullet will perform best when it inter the barrel straight and if it fits the throat it has a very good start at doing so. In most commercial 30 caliber rifles the throat/freebore is .310 to .311 and most often bullets sized these dimensions will do very well.

If there is a tapered leade into the throat larger bullets will often do well.

Some military rifles, like the Krag will have throats larger than .311 often as large as .314

If a long nose bullets is used that rides on top of the lands, it is important a bullet has a good fit there.

You will not find any rifle with the throat smaller than the barrel groove. Therefore any cast bullet that fits the throat will be larger than the barrel groove diameter and seal well. It does no harm to accuracy or anything else, is a cast bullets is larger by 5 or 6 thousands than the barrel groove diameter.

If the bullet fits the throat, there is no need to "slug the bore". Therefore in most commercial 30 caliber rifles a cast bullet of .310 to .311 will be a good choice and the bore slugging can be disregarded. If the throat calls for bullets larger than .311 then by all means use them.

Telling folks to "slug the bore" diverts their attention from where it needs to be and that is on the throat size. It causes them to think bore slugging really has something to do with good shooting cast bullets. This is just one of the old mantras that won't go away and really has very little utility. No harm will be done in doing so, but for the most part, it is a waste of time and effort.

[Char-Gar]

Bear in mind guys, if you shove a .311 gas check down a cast neck, it will open the neck up to .311. There will a little spring back, but if the bullet is much small than .311 you might have messed up the neck tension.

It is always a good idea to seat and crimp the gas checks to the same size as the bullet body. I use a press mounted "push through" die to seat the checks and size the bullets. I will them take the sized and checked bullets and lube them in a Lyman machine with the same or .001 larger die.

[Char-Gar]

My 30-06 (03A3 and 1917) and 30-40 Krag all shoot .311 diameter bullets very well.

Try a fat 30 caliber that will allow you to use .313 bullets in your Krag rifle and watch the groups shrink. I have an older 311291 that will cast bullets .315.

Neck turning cases to thin them is often helpful is using cast bullets that fit the throat, but prove to be a tight fit in the rifle chamber.