What's the way to become a gunsmith?

[AmishWarlord]

I've been at my current job for coming up on twenty years. I really want a change. I've always been interested in gunsmithing and tinker with my guns all the time upgrading them and getting them to function better.

I think I'd like to do this full time professionally, but I just don't know how to go about it. I've seen the home study gunsmith courses http://www.americangunsmith.com/ and http://degreedirectory.org/course-catalog/Ashworth_College_Programs_Gunsmithing_Career_Diplo ma.html#page1 and http://degreedirectory.org/course-catalog/Penn_Foster_Career_School_-_Gunsmith_Career_Diploma.html#page1

Are these the way to get started?

I've gotten sick of the the low quality "parts changers" kind of gunsmiths today. I know how to run a lathes, mills, and shapers. I know how to make metal castings, mix polymers, shape and finish wood. I'm ready to get into the new 3D printing technology and find ways to apply it to gunsmithing also.

Any advice on getting started with this welcomed!

[Stonecrusher]

A real school would be much better than a correspondence course I think. There are two colleges offering gunsmithing degrees in North Carolina. There is Piedmont Community college in Roxboro, about 3 hours from you, and Montgomery Community college in Troy, a little over one hour from you. I don't know the feasability of relocating for this endeavor, or driving over an hour each day for classes, but the quality of knowledge you receive from being hands on with an instructor is far better than watching a video or reading a book. I don't know the quality of these schools now but I went to school in Troy, back when it was Montgomery Technical College, and it was very hands on with a full machine shop, bluing and heat treating facilities. We made quite a few stocks as well. Good luck! After all that I wound up being a machinist!

[kunkis1132]

Colorado springs!!!! No corespondents offered.

[boltaction308]

There's a lot of different kind of gunsmiths. From the average in the local gun shop who fixes broken guns (the parts swapper you refer to) to the guy that can build a 1000 yard target rifle ready to take to the world championships. There are also some very good pistol smiths. The high end guys are very specialized, for example, http://www.mountaincompetitionpistols.com/ just makes high end pistols for NRA bullseye or IPSC, he ONLY works on 1911s or Beretta 92FS. He is one of 2 people in the country that knows how to make a 92FS good enough to win the NRA nationals.

Then of course there are the 100's of AR-15 builders that think they are the best gunsmiths in the world, but all they are is assembly workers that put a little more care into their work. (AR's are not hard to make shoot well, A good barrel and some shims to tighten the receiver mating is all you need).


So there a bunch of questions that you need to think about,

Do you want to work at a local gun shop doing what ever walks in the door?

Do want to work locally or take in mail order work from any where in the country?

Do you want to do specialized work, i.e. pistol, target rifle, hunting rifle, etc?

Do you want to start your own product line, again for what market.

I am very much in favor of 3D printing as well and that can give you an edge.

If you want to work on rifles, the first thing to learn is how to glass bed with pillars, this is very important for both target and hunting rifles.

If you want to work locally, you need to find out what people do locally, i.e. what kind of competition is most common in your area.

Hope these comments help.

[DCM]

A reputable college program and if possible a good mentor.
The second being more difficult to find these days, preferably someone with tons of experience thinking about retiring.
Now a days there are few real gunsmiths left, most are revolversmiths, pistolsmiths, armorers, riflesmiths, shotgunsmiths or just parts assemblers that call themselves smiths. :(
We could certainly use more REAL gunsmiths in this country.

[MtGun44]

There is a school in Trinidad, CO that is highly regarded.

http://www.nragunsmithing.com/trinidad.html

Bill

[theperfessor]

Not trying to get off topic here, but considering what the political geniuses have done in CO I wonder what effect that will have on Trinidad? I hate to see schools have problems not of their fault, but I am personally boycotting almost anything that has to do with that state.

To the OP - boltaction308 has a good list of things to think about. The fact that you already know how to use machine tools and perform other processes should make your goal easier to achieve. If there is an in-state school near you the tuition should be more reasonable than going out of state.

I think most gunsmiths fail because they don't understand business, not because they don't understand guns. I'm not picking on gunsmiths - MOST small businesses fail for that reason. People like to do, and are good at, certain things. Then they think they can do it for a living. And they have no business skills or realistic outlook on what it takes and costs to start and run a business. I'm not getting down on anybody, I'm just being realistic.

Many people start and successfully run skills-based small businesses every day. Many more start and fail. I'm all for learning gun smithing if you want to learn about guns. I'm even more for learning how to run a small business if you intend to be a gunsmith for a living. Many schools offer credit and non credit business related courses. Much easier to find than gunsmith classes.

I only offer this because you mention that you've been at the same job for a number of years, and I will infer that it isn't as the chief proprietor of a small single owner business. I apologize if this isn't the case but my advice stands.

I've always found it easier to pick up technical skills than business skills. Physics is so much easier than tax law!

[Malgus]

The path to gunsmithing...

Mine was a long, convoluted path. Started out messing about with old guns when I was only 12. Went into the Army and stayed for a career. While I was in, I went through the army's armorer course, as well as several smaller courses (Colt's armorer, Beretta, etc).

When I got out, I went to Colorado School of Trades. Them and Trinidad are two highly regarded schools in America. CST covers everything from parts swapping, to fabbing parts by hand (think chunk of steel, a file, calipers and a blueprint... or even a sketch), making springs by hand, tempering metals, bluing, rust bluing, checkering, etc..

Like anything, you get out of it what you put into it. Work hard and you will find your niche.

For a gunsmith, there is actually a "finishing" school... it's in Germany. Yes, they take Americans. It's pricey. I'll try and find it when I get done with chores... bbl.

Mal

[Malgus]

Not trying to get off topic here, but considering what the political geniuses have done in CO I wonder what effect that will have on Trinidad? I hate to see schools have problems not of their fault, but I am personally boycotting almost anything that has to do with that state.

To the OP - boltaction308 has a good list of things to think about. The fact that you already know how to use machine tools and perform other processes should make your goal easier to achieve. If there is an in-state school near you the tuition should be more reasonable than going out of state.

I think most gunsmiths fail because they don't understand business, not because they don't understand guns. I'm not picking on gunsmiths - MOST small businesses fail for that reason. People like to do, and are good at, certain things. Then they think they can do it for a living. And they have no business skills or realistic outlook on what it takes and costs to start and run a business. I'm not getting down on anybody, I'm just being realistic.

Many people start and successfully run skills-based small businesses every day. Many more start and fail. I'm all for learning gun smithing if you want to learn about guns. I'm even more for learning how to run a small business if you intend to be a gunsmith for a living. Many schools offer credit and non credit business related courses. Much easier to find than gunsmith classes.

I only offer this because you mention that you've been at the same job for a number of years, and I will infer that it isn't as the chief proprietor of a small single owner business. I apologize if this isn't the case but my advice stands.

I've always found it easier to pick up technical skills than business skills. Physics is so much easier than tax law!

THIS!! ^

If I had one gripe about CST, it's that they don't hit the "Business" side of the business enough. Most guys assume that they're gonna work for someone else, then open their own shop. And that's good. But if you don't know beans about how to run a small business, you're gonna have a tough go of it.

Like theperfessor said: get some business savvy. After that, take some machining courses at your local tech college, if they still offer any. It will pay dividends. I wish to God I had.

Mal

[Reg]

THIS!! ^

If I had one gripe about CST, it's that they don't hit the "Business" side of the business enough. Most guys assume that they're gonna work for someone else, then open their own shop. And that's good. But if you don't know beans about how to run a small business, you're gonna have a tough go of it.

Like theperfessor said: get some business savvy. After that, take some machining courses at your local tech college, if they still offer any. It will pay dividends. I wish to God I had.

Mal


CST was light on the business end of things even back in 1967 when I went through BUT !!!!!!

They were heavy on hands on from the basics to the fine details and I am glad they were. Some schools stress the math, some even require english and PE. CST made us work on guns and guns only-- period. The business end of anything is a cat of another color and in the allotted amount of time you spend there you simply do not have time for it all.
Business training and ethics needs to be learned in another arena. It in itself is complex enough especially concerning the legal side if you are smart you will not even try to mix them. Don't mix apples and oranges.
Also don't think for a split second you will learn all you need at any school no matter how highly rated. When I received my diploma I was told it was nothing more than a license to keep on learning and were they ever right. Even now, many years later I am still learning and the more I learn, the more I know how little I know.
And if it makes any difference, I have seen few gunsmiths that retired rich, Roy Weatherby might be the only one to come to mind. Most just barely scrape by and some don't even do that.
I don't mean to discourage you but there is such a thing called reality. It's a great hobby and as such you will meet a lot of really nice people and might even make a few bux but as a living, other than a few exceptions--- there are better ( and easier )ways to make a living.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Professor Keith is exactly right. You should be taking business classes along with any classes you take for the craft.

First: you must charge enough to make a living and get ahead. IE: Money first.

Second: you must deliver enough value to justify your prices so that people will come to you for them. IE what you do for the money is secondary. Money is what makes it possible for you to do what you do. It's really not the other way around. this is kind of a diffacult concept to grasp, but I assure you it is fact.

This may sound overly simplistic, however being a craftsman and being able to survive on that skill alone was done about 100 years ago. You see you could put food on your table many other ways than with money back then. Now you pretty much have to have money for everything you do including waht you do for the money..

I vote for Trinidad as well since I know it to be one of the best schools. However any Gunsmithing school should be a good investment as part of the deal is getting licensed, and obtaining the knowledge to do the job, but the business aspect must be taught as well,as without one the other cannot exist.

I would vote for finding a niche in the industry. Building AR's ain't gonna buy any Cadillacs. In my town we have the Griswold Bros. who build high end R700's into superduper sniper rifles,,, For $8 grand! I don't know what you can do to a R700 for $8 grand, but whatever it is they have convinced alot of big police forcesand the military to buy them from them.

Our local SWAT team has bought about 10 of them and whereas I think the rifles are probably pretty good,,, the people shooting them could use alot more practice. Not being able to hit a 3 foot square at 600 yards off a bench rest is not indicative of a high level of skill, especially when you can't blame the gun! It is particularily embarrasing when my $750 Ruger Scout can hit the same target with every shot off a sandbag!

I personally think the PD should have spent the $80K on another officer for the street, and bought the SWAT guys some FN's or Rem 700's for $600 a piece. The results would have been the similar, but the cost would have been less, and better spent.

The point of all this is that the Griswold Bros "sold" the SWAT team these guns. The operative word in that last phrase was "Sold!" And there is nothing wrong with that. They actually delivered the product and just because the cops couldn't put them to good use does not devalue them in any way.

Yes you've got to learn how to Sell your services as well as deliver them, but if you learn to sell first, you will find you generate more oportunities to deliver..

Randy

[scb]

For a gunsmith, there is actually a "finishing" school... it's in Germany. Yes, they take Americans. It's pricey. I'll try and find it when I get done with chores... bbl.

When I attended Trinidad in the 70's this was "the" gunsmithing school http://www.leonmignon.org/. Of course one of the requirements was to be absolutely fluent in French.

[dbosman]

Patience is probably one important characteristic.
Check back with us in a week.

[smilie=w:

[deltaenterprizes]

Work on junk guns till you feel comfortable working on good ones, Miss Katrina gave me a lot of junk to practice on, if I make a mistake nothing lost, it was already scrap metal.

[smokeywolf]

My father had a gunsmithing shop back around 1950 or so. He did beautiful work, but was reluctant to charge what it was worth. This was told to me by my mother. When I asked my father why he hadn't kept the business going, he said that he liked gunsmithing more than almost anything else he'd done. But, he said, "when you take a hobby that you love and start trying to make a living at it, it becomes work; something you have to do, rather than want to do". After he closed the business he continued doing work out of his home shop for a few of his clients, but on a more informal basis.

smokeywolf

[DCM]

+1 on the salesmanship and buisiness.
You can be the best there is but if you cannot manage things and SELL your services it is all moot.
I know a local smith that is Very good at what he does but his people skills STINK badly so he barely gets any work.
It is so bad that it is hard to recommend him to folks even though his work is usually impecable.
You gotta eat!

[LynC2]

My best friend graduated from Trinidad and was one hell of a good gunsmith! The problem was he had trouble making a decent living for his family and became a machinist. It eventually worked into a production managerial position for a company that paid him big bucks with one hell of a bonus program. If you want to make a decent living it may take a while before you become established.
One of my friend's classmates went on to work for Yager, so I guess it all amounts to your interests, talents and ambition. Good luck with your choice.

[Jeff Michel]

You will likely find that the majority of "gunsmiths" have to take about anything that is plunked down on the bench. Yes, that means the parts replacers. After twenty five years of doing gun repair work. Most of the requests are cleaning/re-blue. Seldom seen re-barreling and even more seldom stocking jobs. Making parts for obsolete firearms will not be anything you will be doing very often. If your already well versed in machine trades, the jump to guns is small. Get yourself some books. The NRA used to put out a series of exploded views in book form. Numrich (GunParts) is another source. Start tinkering with old/junk guns, if you screw up no one will ever find out. Get a hot blue setup, nothing will teach you more about guns than re-bluing them. Unfortunately, as it was pointed out by a number of other folks in this thread, you will more than likely have to have a job in town to make ends meet. I work on firearms because I like mechanical things and I like guns of all types. As an advocation, it's the greatest. It's bought and paid for an entire shop of equipment and any gun I desired, but in rural Ohio, there just isn't enough work to make it your only source of livelyhood. Good luck in your quest.

[John Taylor]

Jeff, I found just the opposite but then I specialize in barrel work, repair/replace. I try to stay away from the modern stuff like ARs, there's lots of people out there working on those. Most of the guns I work on are ether antique or close to it so making parts is part of the job. What I find interesting is the customer that came in with a target 22 and had me install his barrel, total price for machine work was about $150 which included contour to match old barrel. After he paid me he said the last shop charged him $1800 for the same work. I want to know how I can charge that much and not run off customers.

[bob208]

i got started many years ago fixing or compleating the job that bubba started on the mausers. squiring the muzzles after they were shortened. altering the bolt handles for a scope removing the striper clip guide so you could get a scope mount on. took many ears off of enfield actions. then i got into muzzleloaders they are off the radar.


i have a guy now coming up to my place. he is a parts replacer. he wants to learn to run a lathe and mill. both are good things to know. right now first project is making a barrel vise. then an action wrench. then more tools he will need as he goes along.

[TXGunNut]

Some good advice above, most of it not very encouraging. I'm no gunsmith but I know it's like any craft, even with a high skill level you'll likely never get rich so it needs to be a job you really want to do. A business I used to frequent had a sign that read something like this "The biggest disservice a business can do to it's customers is to fail to make a profit and go out of business."
In my business I frequently refer a customer to a locksmith. The instant objection is that they are expensive. My reply is that due to all the training and overhead including complex machinery (and even electronics) no locksmith I know is getting rich, most scrape to get by.
The same seems to be true of gunsmiths; precision work requires a high skill level, precision tools and instruments. None of that comes cheap.