"Drano blacking " a barrel

[Shooter6br]

Question: When "blacking " a barrel with drain cleaner does it pit the rifling?.Plugging a barrel put in a 270 degree bath is a no no.

Anyone try "blacking " a barrel? Thanks Rick

[David2011]

I've never blued a barrel in straight Drano- not sure it would work since all homebrew formulae include ammonium nitrate, potassium nitrate or similar. Commercial bluing salts do no damage to a bore. I have a fair amount of experience with Brownell's bluing salts.

David

[elginrunner]

Bluing a gun is a controlled oxidizing process. Once being blued, you have to stop the process, or it will continue to oxidize, or rust. I used to do a hot rinse, and cold rinse in distilled water. Once cool enough to hold, I run bore patches down the tube to get any excess moisture out. A good oiling after that usually did the trick. But still yet if a gun had deep pores, rust could be found a couple days later creeping out. Just keep it oiled well for the first couple of weeks and you should be fine.

[firefly1957]

If you want to reblue yo must get it very smooth first including removing all pits and polishing the metal good. As said above i have not heard of a strait drano blue either i have heard of a hot salts bath .

[oldred]

No you don't need to plug the bore, it won't hurt anything BUT you don't want "Drano" either! You have undoubtedly heard about using drain cleaner but it's "Drain Out Crystals" NOT Drano. That particular drain cleaner has the same chemicals in roughly the same proportions as commercial salts with the exception that it also contains Aluminum chips which must be allowed to react and be consumed by the solution before it is used as a hot blue bath, this is done simply by adding water (you must use distilled water) and waiting until the violent reaction stops. The solution is then heated to temperature and the properly prepared parts are submersed until the surface is blued, it only takes a few minutes in the boiling solution.


Now since you have asked this question it's obvious you are not totally familiar with the process, that's not in any way meant as a jab at you or an insult it's just that a person NEEDS to already know exactly what is involved before attempting this, make a mistake and you not only can make a mess of the gun you can also make a mess of yourself -this stuff is VERY dangerous if handled improperly! The proper safety gear and equipment is a must because this stuff is something you do not want to take chances with. This has been discussed the in last few days here in another thread but basically it's reasonably safe enough IF PROPER PRECAUTIONS are taken and can be done at home but only with full understanding of what's involved which can be quite daunting, hot bluing is not often done at home for a very good reason!

[David2011]

My last answer was posted without regard to the dangers of hot bluing. At a minimum you might want to look at Brownell's Oxynate No. 7 instructions at http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/Inst-113%20Bluing%20Booklet.pdf and BlindHogg's excellent home bluing instructions at http://www.blindhogg.com/homemadesalts.html.

You can't be careful enough with bluing salts. Every precaution recommended is necessary. You're boiling a saturated caustic soluton at 292 degrees F. The temperature is raised by adding more salts and lowered by changing the concentration of the solution rather than raising or lowering the heat. You CAREFULLY add reverse osmosis drinking water by pouring it over a paint stirring stick or similar wooden stirring stick to allow it to disperse on the surface in order to prevent steam explosions. Many instructions recommend distilled water but it may have been distilled using copper vessels or condensing coils. Copper will ruin bluing salts in very small concentrations. Reverse osmosis treated water is unlikely to have copper in it. Hot bluing salts will eat through leather workboots easily and are devastating to human flesh and eyes. The amount of safety gear you will need may cost more than a 'smith would charge to hot blue the barreled action for you.

I understand the challenge and desire to blue it yourself but if you choose to try it, PLEASE learn about the dangers.

David

[nanuk]

No you don't need to plug the bore, it won't hurt anything BUT you don't want "Drano" either! You have undoubtedly heard about using drain cleaner but it's "Drain Out Crystals" NOT Drano. That particular drain cleaner has the same chemicals in roughly the same proportions as commercial salts with the exception that it also contains Aluminum chips which must be allowed to react and be consumed by the solution before it is used as a hot blue bath, this is done simply by adding water (you must use distilled water) and waiting until the violent reaction stops. ...

MSDS for Drano shows the same stuff as Drain Out

as for the aluminum chips, others have said you don't have to wait for them to be disolved. one you have the salts up to temp, you are good to go.

[Bulldogger]

Here is a thread in another forum where one member detailed his experience.
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=22;t=24170;hl=drano
Bulldogger

[flounderman]

You can get a good blue job using lees rust blueing with one tank on a kitchen stove with a lot less problems than messing with drain cleaner. I've done a little of all of it thru the years. Cold blues, hot salt blue, spray on coatings, and mark Lee rust blue. I just wish I had used the Mark Lee on the first gun because I would have never used anything else.

[oldred]

MSDS for Drano shows the same stuff as Drain Out

others have said you don't have to wait for them to be disolved. one you have the salts up to temp, you are good to go.


You will wait for them to be consumed, guaranteed, and in fact you probably would not want to go near it while this is going on! :-D

The mix will react VIOLENTLY until the Aluminum is consumed, it will foam, splatter and boil over if the tank is not deep enough and I couldn't imagine anyone attempting to blue parts in the solution while all that is going on, however all this only lasts just a few minutes so it's really a moot point. As far as the Drano being the same I am not sure what the difference is but I know two who have tried Drano with very poor results, both times it came out a grey mottled mess with traces of a white residue sticking to the metal.


One more warning about the reaction, nothing seems to be happening at first and a person might think the reaction does not amount to much BUT, it will start after a short time and escalates rapidly when it does and at that point it can get exciting if someone is not prepared for it.

[nanuk]

also, the bubbles are Hydrogen gas, are they not?

very explosive

proper ventilation is a necessity

[nekshot]

if black and a soft matte finish is what you want Laurel Mountain barrel brown & degreaser will do it and it is safer to mess with than this other stuff.

[oldred]

it is safer to mess with than this other stuff.



By a huge margin it's safer!!!


With the hot solution up to operating temperature a splatter on bare skin will instantly remove the skin and leave a scar for life, a large splatter could easily (and has been!) fatal! Even the unheated solution can cause chemical burns if not rinsed off immediately and it's even recommended to counter-act the solution by rinsing with Vinegar, if the solution is hot however SERIOUS damage is done before a person has time to do anything. Hot or cold splashing the solution in the eyes will result in instant and serious eye damage, more than a drop or so will result in blindness, there is no washing it out quickly enough- the damage happens instantly! Even the fumes from the boiling solution can be a severe irritant. "Ok but I'll be careful", carful by itself is not enough and proper protective gear is a must but even more importantly the person had better know WHAT THEY ARE DOING before starting, this is no place to figure it out as you go! The solution temperature is critical and must be controlled to stay within the right range and this is done by adjusting the solution ratio not by turning the heat up or down, a boiling solution will not get any hotter by turning up the heat. A hard "Rolling boil" is the same temperature as a "Slow boil", the difference is hotter steam, so the only way to control out-of-range temperatures is to change the water/chemical ratio but doing this can be extremely hazardous if not done correctly and can easily result in a steam eruption that can splatter hot solution in all directions! This CAN BE DONE at home but fellas just asking a few questions on an internet forum and then running down to Wal-Mart and buying drain cleaner and distilled water is eventually going to get someone hurt and hurt badly! Like I said this can be done at home and done safely but there is a lot to it that needs to be covered first especially the safety concerns, perhaps we need to write a short tutorial and make it a sticky?

[nanuk]

Like I said this can be done at home and done safely but there is a lot to it that needs to be covered first especially the safety concerns, perhaps we need to write a short tutorial and make it a sticky?

That would be awesome!

with pics or video links!

[oldred]

Sorry about digging up an old thread but this Drain cleaner bluing thread has been referenced several times recently, things have changed since it was first posted. Drain-Out Crystals are NO LONGER AVAILABLE, or at least what may be left is grossly over priced. It can still be found listed on-line even at WalMart but it will either be "out-of-stock", grossly over priced or both! What happened is the damn meth heads were using it for some idiotic purpose and it is no longer being produced, in some stores it was actually pulled from the shelves while others sold off the remaining stock but once that was gone it was GONE!

I searched everywhere and even called some wholesale suppliers (that's where I learned of the meth head connection) and even managed to find a couple of bottles of NOS left on a shelf but I couldn't locate any more to go with it at a sane price. So while yes it did work, and worked really good, it's just history now!


Also the difference between Drano and the Drain-Out-Crystals was briefly discussed at the time and I have since learned the difference. Drano does have similar chemicals to the Drain-Out-Crystals but they are not only in the wrong proportions but the mix also contains a high level (up to 13%) of salt (Sodium Chloride). That contamination is probably what accounts for the white residue/discoloration that was experienced with Drano but even if that hadn't occurred the color of the metal was an ugly greyish and mottled mess with Drano.

[Ecramer]

Possibly it's a different product with a similar name, but I had no trouble at all finding "Drain Out, crystal" on Amazon $8.79 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=drain%20out%20crystal

[oldred]

Possibly it's a different product with a similar name, but I had no trouble at all finding "Drain Out, crystal" on Amazon $8.79 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=drain%20out%20crystal

That's the right product but didn't you notice the price? I pointed out that it can sometimes still be found, it's just left over old stock however, but when you do find it the price is prohibitive or they will be out-of-stock or both as is the case there! It was $3.97 +local sales tax at WalMart but what you have found there is almost $9 a bottle ($8.79) plus another $7.52 shipping and they only have ONE bottle left! One bottle might make enough mix to blue a few small parts but not nearly enough to blue even a small pistol frame, and at those prices the stuff (even if they had enough of it) is waaaay more costly than just buying the real salts from Brownells!


Believe me it's an exercise in futility trying to find this stuff anymore, even if and that's a big IF, you can find enough of it you will find it's a lot cheaper and just as easy to order the right product to begin with so what would be the point of buying the Drain cleaner? The only reason for using the Drain-Out was that it could be easily obtained and could be bought in small amounts at about the same price per lb as the real salts so it was quick, easy and relatively cheap to obtain but it's none of those things now!