Winchester 94 in 38-55

[ColColt]

I've always had a fascination for the Winchester 38-55. I just like the round. Of course, reading of Bob Dalton's exploits with it may have had a bearing as well. At any rate, I hadn't had a lever in any caliber for some 20+ years and lately had a hankering to get one and of course, it was going to have to be in 38-55. I went on Guns America and looked around and saw several Commemorative models but what caught my eye was a few other Winchester 94 in that caliber. I didn't even know they still made them.

One that caught my eye had a lot of writing on the magazine chamber...in white, of all things. It read, "Ask Your Dealer for a Catalog". Surely that's a peel off sticker and not something Winchester would have done. Say it ain't so, Joe!!


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I looked for brass for this caliber and it's like hens teeth. Every place I looked was back ordered or out of stock...so were RCBS dies in standard or the Cowboy dies. Lee dues were available and while I like their molds ok, I don't care for their dies.

[zxcvbob]

They had some .38-55 rifles at CDNN recently. Don't know if they were commemoratives or not, but I don't think so.

[Bphunter]

My name ain't Joe but it's a sticker. Miroku is making the Winchester replicas these days. Excellent quality for the money. I have a .44 mag and a .38-55 and they both shoot fine. Some complain about the rebounding hammer but I've to have an issue. Got my eye on the 1873 whenever it finally hits the shops.

[ColColt]

I thought it would have to be some sort of sticker. Rebounding hammer? Yep, I was hoping to see the '73 in more calibers besides .357.

[Clay M]

Great cartridge.I have a Marlin cowboy rifle that they chambered for a short time.The new 94's look interesting but seem pricey.I have fired many of the originals and they all shot great.It is my favorite in the 94.

[ColColt]

They're all pricey. I didn't think I'd ever see the day a 30-30 would go for what they do...any lever regardless who makes them is way over priced. A 30-30 should be about $200.

[ColColt]

Oops...double post.

[starmac]

How would a firearms company go about building a 30/30 any cheaper than any other caliber??

[Clay M]

I guess I can see an 86 costing a good bit.It is hard for me to see a 94 win or 336 marlin going for big bucks,but all good guns are expensive now.

[OverMax]

Say it ain't so, Joe!! O~K. I'll say it ain't so Joe!!

The only thing I would worry about as said is indeed the need for that nasty brass. Otherwise I think it would be a fun rifle to have out on the 200 yard range listening for its pinging on steel with W/W lead from my dads old Dodge. (I am so jealous!!)

O/M

[Clay M]

The best bet on brass is to backorder it from Starline. They usually ship on the date they list.

[ColColt]

How would a firearms company go about building a 30/30 any cheaper than any other caliber??


30-30's were made by the millions in the 336 and model 94-not so in other models and calibers.

[Catshooter]

I too love the 38-55 Col. Mine started life as a standard 30-30. Found a 26" half round 38-55 barrel with all the little parts 'n pieces that make the whole thing come together.

Screwed one into the other. Oh my. I use the rifle mostly for silhouette.

When I first started loading for it we were in the middle of the first Obama scare and couldn't find brass either. So I blew out 30-30 brass of which I had a ton. They're a bit short but work just fine. Kept me shooting until I could get some proper brass.


Cat

[starmac]

30-30's were made by the millions in the 336 and model 94-not so in other models and calibers.

This I understand, but once a company is tooled up for any other caliber on the same gun, what would be the difference in production costs?
I am thinking it cost more to build a lever than just about any single shots, and probably most bolts.

[ColColt]

Cat-I'm on the notify list on Midway, Graf and sons and Starline about the brass shortage. Hopefully, one of them will get some in before summer's over. I even had to get on the list for the dies. Lee is in stock at Midway but I've always clung to RCBS dies and of course, those are back ordered, too.

I was reading Hornady's Reloading manual the other night about the 38-55 and one of their last comments was that you would gain little with a barrel length over 20". Their test rifle was just a 16" barrel. I don't know why they'd test a cartridge such as this in a 16" barrel but the velocity figures were from that short barrel.

starmac-I can't answer your question about production cost but consider this. Colt has made a zillion 1911's just in the past 20 years in several calibers. They're high and always have been in part due to the name for one thing. Compare a standard run of the mill government model Colt with a Wiley Clapp Colt...same caliber, same style, same parts, but a vast difference in price. The government model will cost several hundred dollars less due in part to the numbers produces. Same thing to me about the 30-30. Winchester has made more of those than in any other caliber.

[square butte]

I've got 7 bags of new 38-55 WW (new Winchester sealed bags) brass if anyone here is interested. Came to me from an elderly man in a neighboring town who rolled up his reloading tent. I don't shoot this caliber. Would sell it at below retail.

[ColColt]

See PM

[starmac]

You have to love what the membership here can come up with.
Did you try the want to buy section. I wound up with everything I needed except a shell holder for my 30 remington, off of this board. I actually allready had an old herters shell holder that had come with a press I bought from a member.

[square butte]

There are 4 more bags of 50 new Winchester 38-55 available if anyone should happen to know of someone who needs or wants some. 3 are sold pending funds.

[TXGunNut]

Lee is in stock at Midway but I've always clung to RCBS dies and of course, those are back ordered, too.-ColColt

Was going to recommend the RCBS Cowboy dies but it seems the Legacy line is similar, just not the odd coloring and brass locking rings. Cowboy dies became my go-to dies for CB's after my first set, next set may be Legacy.

[ColColt]

From what I understand, the Cowboy Dies have a somewhat larger expander plug allowing for more various diameter bullets as opposed to standard dies. I've read the Lee dies(from one or two sources) size, expand mostly for the 375 Winchester although sold as 38-55 dies.

[Char-Gar]

The 38-55 itch is getting real strong in me as well. In 1965 I bought a Sharps Borchard with a 38-55 barrel by Denver barrel maker Axel Peterson. The barrel is minty, shoots like a house-a-fire and I still have the rifle, although it has not been fired in many years.

I still have allot of 38-55 brass, a few molds and the original set of 1965 RCBS dies. I also have a good Marlin 336 Texan (30-30) that is surplus to my needs. JES will rebore it to 38-55 for $225.00. The fever is starting to build!

[ColColt]

Don't fight the feeling. The desire is strong-reach out and just give in.:)

[ColColt]

I'm confused about this caliber. Does the newer Winchesters or even the Commemoratives take a 2.085" or 2.125" case? I've seen both indicated. Starline seems to be the only one making the longer length while Winchester has the shorter one. Starline's website is confusing as they list both lengths for the same caliber.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/caliber.cfm/caliber/38-55/

[rbertalotto]

The Cowboy dies I bought in 38-55 came with two expander plugs. One in .375 and the other .379...........Beautiful dies! But I still bought a Lee Factory Crimp die as the 38-55 likes a good solid crimp when shooting black powder or light loads of Unique.

[ColColt]

The CB dies are the ones I was wanting so, I'm on the notification list at several places for them. I just received today three bags(150) of brass so now, all I need are the dies, LR primers, 4198 powder and a rifle and I'll be on my way.:)

[ColColt]

After a lot of looking and searching diligently I finally found a set of RCBS Cowboy dies for the 38-55! I have a Lee 379-250-RF mold and 150 pieces of Winchester brass. I'm almost there. Still need to locate LR primers and powder. I'm thinking 4198 to start with(IMR or Hodgdon) if I can scrounge some of that up I'll be set...nearly.

Still agonizing over the Short Rifle or the Legendary Frontiersmen. I guess it boils down to whether you want a 20" or 24" barrel and one that has New Haven, CT on it or Japan.

[celticgirl]

This is a first post for me. If you are still looking for 38-55 brass try trackofthewolf.com. They are basically a black powder crowd website but carry "old time cartridge cases" by Starline. I have purchased brass from them and they are good to deal with. Worth a look.

[ColColt]

I just found out about them the other day and yes, they do have a lot of goodies there...nearly everything you need including dies.

[Clay M]

I'm confused about this caliber. Does the newer Winchesters or even the Commemoratives take a 2.085" or 2.125" case? I've seen both indicated. Starline seems to be the only one making the longer length while Winchester has the shorter one. Starline's website is confusing as they list both lengths for the same caliber.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/caliber.cfm/caliber/38-55/

Many of .38/55's will accept the longer brass. The competitive shooters feel that the long brass has an accuracy advantage in BP competition.

[Prodigal Son]

Here are the boolits cast this morning with a new Lyman 375449 they cast @ .378 & 266-68 before sizing & GC72332 next to an old box of cases my Dad gave me too!

[6pt-sika]

I had a pair of lever action 38-55's for awhile !

The first I got was a Marlin 336CB and the second was a circa 1894 Marlin Model 1893 .

With the 336CB I had little problem with the Lyman 375449 sized in a .379" die . As a matter of fact that bullet in that rifle pushed with SR4759 accounted for my first ever cast bullet deer also the first deer I ever killed with metallic sights . That rifle combo worked well out to 200 meters on silhouettes I might add !

The circa 1894 Marlin 1893 was a bit more difficult . I never got sizing die that was larger then .379 so I never worried about getting a custom made mold for that rifle . When I had these two rifles I also had the Ranch Dog 379-210GC and Ranch Dog 379-235GC molds , I probably shoulda tried them both in that Model 1893 but I didn't . I did however use the RCBS 37-250GC a bit in them both with about the same results as I got with the 375449 .

About the best it would do was 2-3" for 3 shots at 100 yards from the bags with open sights .

ALL of the bullets I loaded for these two rifles were done with a set of RCBS regular dies . Got them when the Cowboy dies first came out and no one had the Cowboy dies at the time . So I got what I got and made them work !

Now with that being said I used the RCBS Cowboy dies in 6 other cartridges . They always did okay for me .

[Baron von Trollwhack]

For BP equivalent loads I used H4895 with great success in two different Winchester guns using the Lyman standard bullet w/GC. . A bit of compression will get you HV loads. Had three guns including the early 38-55 short barrel W angle eject carbine which gave a bit more velocity with faster powders like 4198.

[ColColt]

4198 was the powder of choice I wanted to first try but trying to find it is like trying to find a virgin in a Louisiana cat house.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The near equivalents of IMR 4198 are AA 1680, AA2015, D-86, and RE-7. Perhaps one of these , if found would do the job. bvT

[OnHoPr]

If the 30-30 94 can be rebored and chambered for the 38-55 and the pressure for the 30-30 is 38,000 cup and the 38-55 is 30,000 cup can the 38-55 be loaded to the 38,000 cup in the newer guns (early 1900's and above), (it does push more lead)? Just like a number of the older cartridges in newer or stronger actions, the 45 colt for example.

[Nobade]

If the 30-30 94 can be rebored and chambered for the 38-55 and the pressure for the 30-30 is 38,000 cup and the 38-55 is 30,000 cup can the 38-55 be loaded to the 38,000 cup in the newer guns (early 1900's and above), (it does push more lead)? Just like a number of the older cartridges in newer or stronger actions, the 45 colt for example.

Yup. It can easily throw 250gr. above 2000 fps. Kicks a bit up there too.

A side note - don't discount Swiss Precision #210 powder. I got some from Widener's and it is superb in the 38-55. Pretty much duplicates 4198.

-Nobade

[Prodigal Son]

Went and picked up the Legendary Frontiersman today. The sleeve is a bit tattered on the box, but the rifle doesn't have a mark on it.72942
Be glad to get reloading for it. Slugged the bore it is .378 on the dot.

[ColColt]

Mighty purdy...mine gets here Tuesday.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

One of my 38-55s was a J W VanPatten rebore in the early 80s using a 1971 ? NRA Winchester commorative with the long 26" very slim barrel and ladder sights. It rattled like he** from Winchester manufacturing slop, the action blue spotted, and it shot very well too. An IMR 4895 gun . BvT

[ColColt]

I finally got to pick it up today and it's a beauty. I slugged the bore and the groove diameter is .379"...the same size as the Lyman size die I have. I guess I'll try that first since I believe that's the largest size Lyman has. Now, if I can just find a smaller screwdriver to take those screws out of the side of the receiver so I can mount my Lyman 66a sight. Everyone of my Chapman attachments are either a tad too large or small.

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