Another bad Lyman mold

[Jim]

I borrowed a 311410 two banger from a friend. I'm sure it's rather old as it's not a plain base but a radiused base. He told me he'd never used it.

I ran off about ten pounds of the dern things today only to discover the as cast on one cavity is .311 and the other one is .307. That's the third Lyman mold I've run into that's bad. I'm 'bout done with Lyman.

Now I'm in the process of going through all these boolits with a caliper trying to salvage the good half that I made today. Dang thing's too big for a fishin' sinker and too small for a boat anchor.

[MT Chambers]

That's done intentionally for use in 2 different guns.

[Ben]

I had one of the 311410 molds at one time.

It never shot well for me.

Ben

[runfiverun]

if it was done intentionally one of them would be dotted on the nose.

[BACKTOSHOOTING]

I'm 'bout done with Lyman.
I'm with you [smilie=b:
NOE and RCBS from now on

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Accurate!

[Larry Gibson]

I've a standing offer on "bad" Lyman moulds; I'll extend it to you.

Larry Gibson

[Trey45]

Jim, measuring them is going to take a long time, they'll be two different weights you know, would using your digital scale prove quicker?

[Jim]

I dunno, Trey, I didn't think of using my scale. I got a coupla' sorting baskets, sat down in front of the one eyed god and started sorting with my caliper. I went through a little over half of them last night.

I'm seriously considering 'Beagling' this mold. If I can get that to increase the as cast about 4 Ks, I can use the boolits from the corrected cavity for my .308 bolt gun and the larger ones for my old Lithgow.

[Jim]

.004" is a long way to go in an other than aluminum mould.

Help me out, I'm confused. Why would I have difficulty 'Beagling' steel blocks as opposed to aluminum?

[oneokie]

Could he mean lapping instead of beagling?

[Jim]

I have no idea what he meant. That's why I'm confused by what he said.

[clodhopper]

Can you measure them with a sizing die? those ,307s should just fall through a 311 or 313 die.

[GP100man]

NOE for me from here on !!

Every new or used steel mold I hold my breath until I cast a test batch & measure.

Beaglin does work !

Jim Good luck & I`d mark the small cavity somehow !! Approval of the owner of course!

[cbrick]

I've a standing offer on "bad" Lyman moulds; I'll extend it to you. Larry Gibson

Has anyone taken you up on that yet?

I have 70+ molds, only about a dozen are Lyman but in fairness to Lyman I have had no problem with any of them. Well, one problem but I guess I can't blame Lyman because I bought a single cavity mold and then found out that I have three guns that really like that boolit. Now that is a real problem! :mrgreen: That boolit is the 311410 HP'd by Lyman many years ago when they still did that. I started a group buy from Miha (now closed) for the 311410 and have two four cavity molds ordered. Both in .311" diameter (.316" diameter also offered), one GC and one PB, both molds with three sets of pins, two different pin lengths and one for a flat point nose. Miha should be close to sending out invoices for this mold and I am eagerly waiting on it.

As for the comments in this thread on RCBS molds, I have 20-25 RCBS molds and every single one of them are perfection. Most of these molds were purchased new and I did have an issue with one and RCBS had a new mold in my hands within a week. RCBS is without doubt the very best off the shelf mold made with the very best customer service in the reloading industry.

Rick

[Baron von Trollwhack]

In this hobby it is best to cast boolit samples with your known alloy BEFORE you go into production. Check weight , size, GC fit, and anything else you can think of.

BvT

[45-70 Chevroner]

When you borrow things you gets what you gets. I think I would call Lyman and find out if they will recut that cavity. They do still make that mold. I have had a double cavity for about 40 years it also has the rounded or radiused base. Both cavitys throw the same weight and diameter slugs. It makes a nice close range varmint boolit for my 14" 30-30 Contender.

[Larry Gibson]

Has anyone taken you up on that yet?......

Rick

So as not to embarass anyone let me say I have not bought a Lyman or RCBS mould under that offer yet. That is even after numerous tests of such so called "undersized" moulds, not only Lymans but a couple others also. All the moulds I have tested cast at or over the nominal diameter for the mould when used with COWWs + 2% tin let alone the actual alloys the moulds were designed for. I do nothing secret or magic just use good technique (you'll find it in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbooks)and a proper alloy poured straight out of the Lyman Mag20.

I currently have 81 moulds of which 35 are Ideal/Lyman's. I've been casting my own bullets since '68 and have gone through a lot of Lyman moulds, old and new, and have yet to find one that did not cast to nominal diameter. My most recent new Lyman moulds are the 314299 and the 429460HP, both of which cast excellent bullets above the nominal diameters. So where does this scourge of "undersize" moulds really come from? I think it comes from the forums on the internet sites. All seem to espouse WWs as "the" alloy and many have taken that to heart as gospel. The problem with that "gospel" is there is nothing consistent about the composition of WW alloy. Additionally WW alloy is not the alloy that Lyman, RCBS, Lee or Saeco design their moulds around. The critics of Lyman, RCBS, etc. moulds that cast undersize all use straight WW alloy. Additionally if one reads a lot of the posts here asking for threads it is obvious many do not have a good understanding of a proper method of casting. Even many who are good casters with some moulds run into trouble when switching to other moulds, especially from Lee aluminum moulds to Lyman and RCBS Iron moulds. My testing thus far with such "undersize" moulds along with my 45 years experience casting my own lead me to believe the problem is not one of Lyman's or RCBS's "quality control" but one of "pilot error".

Some here on the CBF will and do disagree with me. I offer them the same deal; send me such a mould to test......Only one has. His mould did in fact cast to nominal diameter with COWWs + 2% tin and I even still offered to buy the mould....he would not sell it.

There does seem to be a large discrepency in the diameters of Jim's mould. I do wish he would send it to me for testing. Perhaps I'll own another 311410. I had one back in the early '70s, a 311410HP like yours, but I never could get very good accuracy with it at 1800+ fps out of my M1 Carbine or any other cartridge. Under 1600 fps it was great. That's when I figured out the benefits of GC'd bullets at higher velocity and the 311410HP was traded off.

I've dealt with Lyman, RCBS and Lee's customer service and have found them all very good, even better when you get past the persons who just answer the phone to take orders and talk with the real tech reps.

Anyways, again I hope Jim takes me up on my offer.

Larry Gibson

[Jim]

I borrowed a 311410 two banger from a friend.....

It's not mine, Larry. I don't have the authority to make that decision.

As for the mold producing two diameters that are .004 difference, I would ask this: If I'm doing something wrong, why would one cavity produce the right diameter and the other not?

I'll be the first to tell anybody the only thing I'm an expert on is my scrawny little frame. Compared to some guys in this group, what I know wouldn't fill a thimble. It just seems to me that if both cavities were correctly cut, I'd get the same results from both cavities, good or bad.

I have another Lyman mold that was given to me, out right. It's a single cavity 460540 (I think that's the number, it's out in the shed). No matter what alloy and/or heat I use, I can't get the as cast to come out any bigger than .453! I had to redneck rig up a bump die to bump it up to .460 to use it in my Gibbs bolt gun.

I find it noteworthy that over all the years I've been doing this, I've NEVER had an undercut Lee mold. I've had to doctor the sprue plate to eliminate flash over, perform retina surgery on the cavities to get the dern thing to drop boolits and the failing to close properly still drives me nuts. However, the boolits have always come out at spec diameter.

I guess my Irish luck auto reversed when I started messin' with Lyman molds 'cause the few I have are given' me fits. Either that or I simply have no clue what I'm doin'. I suspect the latter may more likely be the case.

[Larry Gibson]

Jim

Perhaps you can check with the owner and see if it's alright if I test that 311410 mould? If you and I can't get it to cast correctly I'm sure he'd like to know. I'll pay the shipping both ways.

As to the 460540 I'd like to have a look at that one also. Lyman made a lot of custom bullets in days of old including some 451xxx moulds for PPing to 457 - 460. I am unable to find 460540 or anything close in any list of Lyman or Ideal moulds I have (anyone else find it?). I will gladly pay the shipping both ways on that one too?

PM me if you want to ship them.

Larry Gibson

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

earn!

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

I sent you a pm about my so called reject RCBS 270-150 SP mold ... I couldn't get it to work ... Too small and out of round ... I have one other RCBS mold, a Ideal, and lyman that I'm happy with ... I don't think it is me ... But, I'm always willing to learn!

My offer is extended to your RCBS mould, check your PM box.

Larry Gibson

[TXGunNut]

My testing thus far with such "undersize" moulds along with my 45 years experience casting my own lead me to believe the problem is not one of Lyman's or RCBS's "quality control" but one of "pilot error". -Larry Gibson


I have little or no doubt of that, Larry. My problem with one, possibly two Lyman moulds is that I feel they'd perform a bit better in my rifles if they were one or two thousandths larger. They do drop at or very close to the spec'd diameter but some rifles prefer them a little fatter. Can't blame that on Lyman, just wish they'd offer a few oversized moulds.

[Larry Gibson]

TXGunNut

You certainly make a valid point. Lyman/Ideal used to offer lots of "specialty" moulds; oversized, undersized and custom moulds. Some of the older ones bought used and not knowing the history of can/may/also be part of the problem. Criticising the mould maker because the mould doesn't cast larger than nominal doesn't make much sense to me either but we do see it. That's why I'm still searching (through my standing offer) for that Lyman mould that does not cast to nominal diameter.....and I've put my money where my mouth is so to speak.

I've bought some GB moulds because they were "oversized" and they work for me. To the contrary I've also had 4 GB moulds not that cast way oversized to the point one has to have the nose sized to work in any .30 cal, another supposed "slightly oversized" 311291 actually drops COWW + 2% alloyed bullets at .318 which is actually 8mm, the "slightly oversized" 429421 dropped 'em at .446 which was useless to me and I sold that one.....point is what you want can be a bit too much with "custom" GB moulds also.

I currently have 3 Lyman/Ideal "undersize" moulds with the "U" designation and the both cast right at nominal diameter with COWWs + 2% tin or #2 alloy. My regular 2 cavity Lyman 311466 drops 'em at .312 and my 4 cavity U311466 drops them at a perfect .311. My 2 cavity U311359 also drops them perfectly at .311.

Larry Gibson

[CAVEMTNMAN]

About a year ago I bought a Lyman 44 -245 mold and one cavity was out of round. Sent it back and they sent me a new one.

[Ed_Shot]

Just got a new Lyman 452630 last week thru MidSouth. Drops at .4535 ~ .454 and 203.5 gr. The inspection tag was dated 4 Mar 13. I've never been disappointed in a Lyman mold.

[jdgabbard]

I'll take a lyman over just about any other maker. I've bought a few that the previous owners claimed were undersized. When using WW+2% I didn't have a problem getting the size listed in iron.